NorthSideSox72 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 29, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) Pretty similar seasons last year, plus Wise proved he was capable of handling MLB pitching. He didn't set the world on fire by any means, but as a temporary replacement for Quentin and to serve as an extra outfielder he's fine. Kroeger has zero history in the majors and has disappointed at Charlotte so far this year. Plus, Wise could be valuable as a PR and can adequately play all OF positions. Kroeger is best served in the corners and while not slow, he isnt an ideal PR candidate. I really fail to see where or why he is a better choice. Claiming Kroeger is a better option than Wise right now is a bit much. If looking at Wise's brief and highly aberrant 130 AB last year in Charlotte and comparing them to a full season is your measure, then Wise wins. But as I said, look at their careers, development, trends, etc. They all say that other than speed, Kroeger is the player with a far better chance of succeeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ May 29, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) Oh really? Might wanna check those numbers. I edited it as you made this post. .307/.373/.514/.887 .319/.402/.565/.967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ May 29, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) Let's just hope he is not leading off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 This was expected. I don't think Ozzie liked playing a man short on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 29, 2009 -> 12:11 PM) We have ALOT of lefty bats on this team right now. Calling Wise a bat is stretching it. Once I saw Wise had a double in Charlotte, I figured this was going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 29, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) If looking at Wise's brief and highly aberrant 130 AB last year in Charlotte and comparing them to a full season is your measure, then Wise wins. But as I said, look at their careers, development, trends, etc. They all say that other than speed, Kroeger is the player with a far better chance of succeeding. 191 AB. Wise hit .250 in his brief time up here last year, Kroeger is currently hitting .250 so far this year in Charlotte. If Kroger got off to a start reminiscent of his 2008 season this year I'd be inclined to agree that we might have a late bloomer on our hands, but he didn't/hasn't. Instead, we have a AAAA (edit: he probably isnt't even a 4A player actually) player (Wise) and a player who has yet to prove they are an above average AAA player. Kroeger's lines at AAA 2004: .332/.376/.587/.963 2005: .261/.316/.422/.738 2006: .231/.270/.370/.640 2007: .263/.338/.474/.812 2009: .244/.319/.407/.726 So, to me, it is Kroeger's 2008 year that looks like it may be an aberration. I wish him well, if he were to succeed it would onlky help us and give us more options. But I just don't see it. ML teams also havent seen it as he hasnt gotten a call since his 2004 season. I know you tend to fall in love with these types of players (Cook, Torres) and there's nothing wrong with that. I just can not see any way that Josh Kroeger is currently a better option than Wise. That being said, if we're out of it in September I wouldn't mind seeing him called up to get a few games up, but right now he isn't the right call IMO Edited May 29, 2009 by ChiSox_Sonix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 29, 2009 -> 01:02 PM) 191 AB. Wise hit .250 in his brief time up here last year, Kroeger is currently hitting .250 so far this year in Charlotte. If Kroger got off to a start reminiscent of his 2008 season this year I'd be inclined to agree that we might have a late bloomer on our hands, but he didn't/hasn't. Instead, we have a AAAA (edit: he probably isnt't even a 4A player actually) player (Wise) and a player who has yet to prove they are an above average AAA player. Kroeger's lines at AAA 2004: .332/.376/.587/.963 2005: .261/.316/.422/.738 2006: .231/.270/.370/.640 2007: .263/.338/.474/.812 2009: .244/.319/.407/.726 So, to me, it is Kroeger's 2008 year that looks like it may be an aberration. I wish him well, if he were to succeed it would onlky help us and give us more options. But I just don't see it. ML teams also havent seen it as he hasnt gotten a call since his 2004 season. I know you tend to fall in love with these types of players (Cook, Torres) and there's nothing wrong with that. I just can not see any way that Josh Kroeger is currently a better option than Wise. That being said, if we're out of it in September I wouldn't mind seeing him called up to get a few games up, but right now he isn't the right call IMO LOL, my biases aside (which if true would only make me like Wise more, which I don't), let's look at these guys' careers. And bear in mind that Kroeger is 26, and Wise is 31 (so Wise is far less likely to have upside left and has had more chances to learn each level)... Career MILB... Wise: .260/.309/.422/.731 Kroeger: .284/.340/.450/.790 Searching for aberrations, the best five OPS seasons for each (in stints over 100 AB to remove outliers): Kroeger: 1.058, .981, .963, .937, .887 (all since 2003, and last year was his 5th best, with 430 AB) Wise: .967, .917, .844, .821, .796 (only 2 since 2003, and last year was his 2nd best w/ only 191 AB) So any way you want to look at it - overall performance, when they did well (lately or not), best seasons... Kroeger wins out in a pretty big way. I'm sure I won't convince you with this either, but I've seen lots of Dewayne, and saw a little of Kroeger in ST. During that spring, you heard people in the org talk about seeing a good hitter in Josh, as did people here who saw even more of him. Any way you slice it, he looks a lot better to me, with a much higher chance of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Means BA is back to a bench player.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 All I saw is he's retroactive from the 26th....but nothing more. Is it expected he will be back after 15 days or not?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Aaaaand it's gone. See ya later Brian, you did some good stuff. *Look around* Huh? Did I miss something? Why the f*** would BA be secondary to Wise at this point? Or are we just talking about a typical case of Ozzie being a dumbass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ May 29, 2009 -> 03:33 PM) *Look around* Huh? Did I miss something? Why the f*** would BA be secondary to Wise at this point? Or are we just talking about a typical case of Ozzie being a dumbass? I just noticed you had me sig quoted... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 (edited) Kroeger would have had a shot if he was hitting better in Charlotte. Batting .244 in that bandbox isn't going to earn him a promotion. BTW, Buddy Bell attended the games Wed-Thurs before the call was made regarding who was going to be called up. Gotta figure he was there to assess who was ready to fill in once the decision on Carlos was made official. Edited May 29, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Assuming its true... expected and stupid. Do we have to start the Wise bashing? Yes we know he's a below average major league player. I assume you are blaming KW and Ozzie, which is good. I'm sick of blaming Wise because he can't help the fact he's a fairly s***ty player. Let's face it. We are going to struggle big time without CQ. We just are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 29, 2009 -> 02:49 PM) Do we have to start the Wise bashing? Yes we know he's a below average major league player. I assume you are blaming KW and Ozzie, which is good. I'm sick of blaming Wise because he can't help the fact he's a fairly s***ty player. Let's face it. We are going to struggle big time without CQ. We just are. I was definitely blaming KW/Oz, not DeWayne himself. I think Wise seems like a guy who works hard and just wants a chance, I have nothing against him personally. And obviously whomever plays, I hope they kick ass. He's just not the best option right now, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 This is 15 day right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I know I’m prone to hyperbole, but I could make the argument that starting Wise over BA at this point would be one of the worst possible things to happen to our organization for our foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 29, 2009 -> 04:26 PM) I know I’m prone to hyperbole, but I could make the argument that starting Wise over BA at this point would be one of the worst possible things to happen to our organization for our foreseeable future. Any of you guys going to the game, watch out...the seats are going to melt into a hot pile of White Sox fan eatin' goo. And Greg Walker is going to get fired, by the President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 29, 2009 -> 04:33 PM) I was definitely blaming KW/Oz, not DeWayne himself. I think Wise seems like a guy who works hard and just wants a chance, I have nothing against him personally. And obviously whomever plays, I hope they kick ass. He's just not the best option right now, IMO. I actually like Wise, I just hate having him on the team because of how Ozzie uses him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 wasn't the knock on Quentin in AZ that he was injury prone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 wasn't the knock on Quentin in AZ that he was injury prone? I don't know, but he's definitely had some bad luck on that front with the Sox. We need the production he gave us last year until the injury. We're not going to get that from Wise/BA/Pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ May 29, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) wasn't the knock on Quentin in AZ that he was injury prone? Not necessarily injury prone...but he would never have been available had it not been for an injury. Because he was injured he couldn't do much for the 2007 season, and that led to them resigning Byrnes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Somebody needs to batter Ozzie Guillen with a crowbar if he even thinks of taking PT away from Brian Anderson after all the s*** he's put Sox fans through with CF'ers over the last 4 seasons. The kid is just starting to look like he's capable of becoming a league average hitter to go along with GG-caliber defense and now he's going to end up riding the bench once again in order to trot out minor league roster filler? Wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm going to save my irritation for when Ozzie actually does that, though. He's surprised me before and done the right thing, e.g. batting Getz leadoff, so I'll hold out hope on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ May 29, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) All I saw is he's retroactive from the 26th....but nothing more. Is it expected he will be back after 15 days or not?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! Ozzie said in the pregame he should be back at the end of his 15 days. QUOTE (chw42 @ May 29, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) This is 15 day right? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 29, 2009 -> 08:08 PM) Ozzie said in the pregame he should be back at the end of his 15 days. wonder who's going away when he comes back....wise...pods...BA....one of them, right? Right now my money is on pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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