High Mileage Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Updated after yesterday's games... Greinke and Jackson pitch this afternoon... Edited June 3, 2009 by High Mileage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Greinke's ops against is .506, the next closest is sabathia at .608, in the american league. Greinke is yet to give up a single home run, the only qualified pitcher in baseball that can say that. He has thrown 5 complete games (two shut outs), the same as the rangers whole staff has thrown... who just so happen to be tied with the royals for the major league most 5 complete games. Etc, etc, etc... Edited May 31, 2009 by qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I want to take this opportunity to say HAHA at all the people who were dogging Edwin Jackson over the offseason. He's another guy I was mad that the Sox didn't pick up. Another recent guy is Anthony Reyes but he's having a bad season so far. Supposedly he's not very coachable, but I'd still like to see what Coop could do with him. On topic, Greinke is for real and could very easily win the Cy Young this year. I'm scared to face him tomorrow. His numbers BTW are hilarious: 0.0 HR/9??? LOL. That's not supposed to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Anthony Reyes needs season-ending surgery. Edwin Jackson has pitched like this more then a few times in his professional career and then started walking everyone in the park. I suggest we wait a few more weeks before anointing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 31, 2009 -> 07:54 AM) Anthony Reyes needs season-ending surgery. Edwin Jackson has pitched like this more then a few times in his professional career and then started walking everyone in the park. I suggest we wait a few more weeks before anointing him. Eh. When he got to TB, they fixed him. The only reason why they got rid of him is because they have cheaper options who may pan out to be just as good as him like Wade Davis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 31, 2009 -> 05:26 AM) I want to take this opportunity to say HAHA at all the people who were dogging Edwin Jackson over the offseason. He's another guy I was mad that the Sox didn't pick up. Another recent guy is Anthony Reyes but he's having a bad season so far. Supposedly he's not very coachable, but I'd still like to see what Coop could do with him. On topic, Greinke is for real and could very easily win the Cy Young this year. I'm scared to face him tomorrow. His numbers BTW are hilarious: 0.0 HR/9??? LOL. That's not supposed to happen. The Rays were looking for a starting RF with some good pop so they dealt from their surplus of starting pitching and got Matt Joyce who put up an .831 OPS and .240 ISO in limited major league action last year (277 PA) and sported a .938 OPS and .215 ISO for AAA Durham in 174 PA before being recalled earlier today. He'll act as their starting RF. The Sox had no comparable piece within their organization to dangle assuming they were even interested in Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's not even a race right now. It is nice to see Mark Buehrle off of the best start of his career though. If he can keep it up, and have Grienke fall to earth. Maybe Mark can add some hardware to his trophy case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Mileage Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Greinke has more complete games this year, than Verlander does in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) I really think Greinke's this year's version of Cliff Lee, but a bit better. He'll end up with an ERA near the mid 2s by the end of it all and win around 20-22 games. Edited May 31, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 31, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) I really think Greinke's this year's version of Cliff Lee, but a bit better. He'll end up with an ERA near the mid 2s by the end of it all and win around 20-22 games. What do you mean this year's Cliff Lee? Cliff Lee was a fluke. Greinke, on the other hand, is for real and has the stuff to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 31, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) The Rays were looking for a starting RF with some good pop so they dealt from their surplus of starting pitching and got Matt Joyce who put up an .831 OPS and .240 ISO in limited major league action last year (277 PA) and sported a .938 OPS and .215 ISO for AAA Durham in 174 PA before being recalled earlier today. He'll act as their starting RF. The Sox had no comparable piece within their organization to dangle assuming they were even interested in Jackson. puh-lease. You can't honestly sit there and tell me we couldn't have offered anything better than Matt Joyce. If the Rays actually thought Matt Joyce was going to be a starting caliber RF, their stupider than I thought. You don't trade pitchers with Jackson's stuff who's shown he can be at least decent for players like Matt freaking Joyce. It was just an incredibly stupid trade by the Rays, especially if they thought Matt Joyce would be the answer in RF. If anything, they already had a very similar player to Matt Joyce on the roster, Gabe Gross. Look at some of the other numbers besides OPS and ISO (I don't even know what ISO is and I really couldn't give two s***s). Joyce's career minor league average is .277. Wow! He averaged 10 homers a year! He's a real slugger from RF! His K:BB is 2:1! From looking at his numbers and what I've seen of him with the Tigers, at best he'll be a Gabe Gross type of player. That ain't bad, but trading Edwin Jackson for that is beyond retarded. Sonnastine should have been the pitcher they traded this offseason, and Sonnastine for Joyce would have made a ton more sense. However, I don't know what was going on through the heads of GM's around the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 31, 2009 -> 05:26 AM) I want to take this opportunity to say HAHA at all the people who were dogging Edwin Jackson over the offseason. He's another guy I was mad that the Sox didn't pick up. You and me both. I remember we got blasted by a lot of people for saying that, but you can't teach the type of stuff Jackson has. Anyone who says we couldn't have offered more than Joyce is just talking silly, because there is no way the Rays were expecting him to be their starting RF this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 There is no "race" at this point. It's Greinke and nobody is close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) What do you mean this year's Cliff Lee? Cliff Lee was a fluke. Greinke, on the other hand, is for real and has the stuff to prove it. And what makes you say that with 100 percent certainty? The comparison is very valid, Greinke has been doing pretty much nothing until this year, and he finally put it together with his talent, which is exactly what happened with Lee last year. Lee was a very highly touted prospect, he isnt some out-of-nowhere scrub who had a nice year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 31, 2009 -> 02:32 PM) And what makes you say that with 100 percent certainty? The comparison is very valid, Greinke has been doing pretty much nothing until this year, and he finally put it together with his talent, which is exactly what happened with Lee last year. Lee was a very highly touted prospect, he isnt some out-of-nowhere scrub who had a nice year. Lol, their situations aren't even close to being similar. When Greinke first came up in 04, he had a very solid rookie season. ERA below 4, 8-11 W-L, but solid periphials. Plus, he had dominating stuff. He also dominated in the minors. However, in 05 and 06, Greinke had his mental problems with depression and such, and that really set him back. He came back in 07 in a relief role, and really did good and eventually started 14 games. In 2008, he finally began to break out and became a top of the line starter for the Royals. Now, he is completely broken out, and at the age of 25, he's been the best pitcher in baseball for over 1/4 of the season. If Greinke didn't have those other problems, we could have began to see this pitcher 2 years ago! Cliff Lee on the other was 30 last year, and before that he was mediocre. He has good but not great minor league numbers, and before 08, he was just a decent pitcher. In fact, in 07 he was god awful and even got sent down at one point. All of a sudden, when he turns 30, he finally finds it and becomes a cy young type pitcher? It was most definitely a fluke year. He's decent, but no stud ace, Cy Young caliber pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) Lol, their situations aren't even close to being similar. When Greinke first came up in 04, he had a very solid rookie season. ERA below 4, 8-11 W-L, but solid periphials. Plus, he had dominating stuff. He also dominated in the minors. However, in 05 and 06, Greinke had his mental problems with depression and such, and that really set him back. He came back in 07 in a relief role, and really did good and eventually started 14 games. In 2008, he finally began to break out and became a top of the line starter for the Royals. Now, he is completely broken out, and at the age of 25, he's been the best pitcher in baseball for over 1/4 of the season. If Greinke didn't have those other problems, we could have began to see this pitcher 2 years ago! Cliff Lee on the other was 30 last year, and before that he was mediocre. He has good but not great minor league numbers, and before 08, he was just a decent pitcher. In fact, in 07 he was god awful and even got sent down at one point. All of a sudden, when he turns 30, he finally finds it and becomes a cy young type pitcher? It was most definitely a fluke year. He's decent, but no stud ace, Cy Young caliber pitcher. so in summary, before both of their breakout years, they were both mediocre, they both went away from the majors for a similar amount of time(Greinke for head problems, Lee for inneffectiveness), and both of them had breakout years(although Greinkes isnt finished yet and Lee has a Cy Young on his mantle), and the only real difference is their age You are right, nothing similar Oh oh oh, I get it, you saw the stuff they have so you know Edited May 31, 2009 by kyyle23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Not too mention after a couple rough starts, Cliff Lee is also having a very good season this year too, era in low 3's and can very easily get into the 2's with a couple of good starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Ryan sweeney has my vote for cy young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ May 31, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) Not too mention after a couple rough starts, Cliff Lee is also having a very good season this year too, era in low 3's and can very easily get into the 2's with a couple of good starts. He's actually not that far off from last year. He's gotten terrible run support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 31, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) He's actually not that far off from last year. He's gotten terrible run support. HESAFLUKEITELLYA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) You and me both. I remember we got blasted by a lot of people for saying that, but you can't teach the type of stuff Jackson has. Anyone who says we couldn't have offered more than Joyce is just talking silly, because there is no way the Rays were expecting him to be their starting RF this season. There were rumors that the Rays offered Jackson for Dye last offseason but the Sox didn't bite. Then the Rays signed Burrell and traded for Joyce. I did read at the time that Joyce was viewed as their RF of the future but would miss time to start the season due to injury. I also read somewhere that I guess there were rumors or reports out of Boston saying the Red Sox were close to sending us Bowden for Dye last year. So if that is true, we could have possibly had Michael Bowden, Edwin Jackson, or Homer Bailey instead of Colon. That's kind of depressing at the moment, but of course Dye is a huge part of the reason we're nearing .500 at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 31, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) so in summary, before both of their breakout years, they were both mediocre, they both went away from the majors for a similar amount of time(Greinke for head problems, Lee for inneffectiveness), and both of them had breakout years(although Greinkes isnt finished yet and Lee has a Cy Young on his mantle), and the only real difference is their age You are right, nothing similar Oh oh oh, I get it, you saw the stuff they have so you know The thing is, Greinke was never mediocre. He was an elite prospect who got sidetracked due to his mental problems. Greinke was always considered a potential stud and he has some of the best stuff of any pitcher in baseball. Lee is a solid pitcher with mediocre stuff. He had a fantastic year last year, but have you ever heard of career years? If Lee comes anywhere close to his 2008 season (and I'm not talking W-L wise), I'll eat crow. But I'd be surprised if he finishes the season with an ERA under 3.5. Also, no one in their right mind would take Lee over Greinke. Edited May 31, 2009 by BearSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) puh-lease. You can't honestly sit there and tell me we couldn't have offered anything better than Matt Joyce. If the Rays actually thought Matt Joyce was going to be a starting caliber RF, their stupider than I thought. You don't trade pitchers with Jackson's stuff who's shown he can be at least decent for players like Matt freaking Joyce. It was just an incredibly stupid trade by the Rays, especially if they thought Matt Joyce would be the answer in RF. If anything, they already had a very similar player to Matt Joyce on the roster, Gabe Gross. Look at some of the other numbers besides OPS and ISO (I don't even know what ISO is and I really couldn't give two s***s). Joyce's career minor league average is .277. Wow! He averaged 10 homers a year! He's a real slugger from RF! His K:BB is 2:1! From looking at his numbers and what I've seen of him with the Tigers, at best he'll be a Gabe Gross type of player. That ain't bad, but trading Edwin Jackson for that is beyond retarded. Sonnastine should have been the pitcher they traded this offseason, and Sonnastine for Joyce would have made a ton more sense. However, I don't know what was going on through the heads of GM's around the league. Who would we have sent to Tampa Bay that is comparable, WITHOUT adding salary to Tampa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ May 31, 2009 -> 07:45 PM) The thing is, Greinke was never mediocre. He was an elite prospect who got sidetracked due to his mental problems. Greinke was always considered a potential stud and he has some of the best stuff of any pitcher in baseball. Lee is a solid pitcher with mediocre stuff. He had a fantastic year last year, but have you ever heard of career years? If Lee comes anywhere close to his 2008 season (and I'm not talking W-L wise), I'll eat crow. But I'd be surprised if he finishes the season with an ERA under 3.5. Also, no one in their right mind would take Lee over Greinke. lol, if you did this for every outlandish statement you've made you'd never have to buy food again in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ May 31, 2009 -> 07:56 PM) lol, if you did this for every outlandish statement you've made you'd never have to buy food again in your life. Oh, because I've been so wrong many times before. Please list all times I've been wrong. Clayton Richard... already admitted that one. Original Nick Swisher trade... oh wait, nailed that one. Ryan Sweeney... hasn't really panned out either way, but anyone can make a legit argument between him, Anderson, Swisher, and Young and who'd be the better option. Josh Fields... jury's still out. Edwin Jackson and Andy Sonnastine... dead on again. Please, add to the list of all my wacky and crazy predictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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