TitoMB345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 For all of you who laughed when we said Wise would be starting/playing over BA.. HA! Ozzie is an idiot, and I want him fired after the season. The Ozzie Guillen experiment should be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:25 AM) For all of you who laughed when we said Wise would be starting/playing over BA.. HA! Ozzie is an idiot, and I want him fired after the season. The Ozzie Guillen experiment should be over. Just a question...when is an experiment no longer an experiment? I mean, he's been here for 5 years. I think he is who he is. And the front office likes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:23 AM) Really...? You really just went there...? Ok. Went where? I'm saying the same thing over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:26 AM) Just a question...when is an experiment no longer an experiment? I mean, he's been here for 5 years. I think he is who he is. And the front office likes it. This is true, Ozzie is going nowhere. He's a good manager who gets a lot out of his players. However, Kenny needs to bring it down from above that BA stay in the lineup. The kid isn't the greatest hitter, but he certainly is better than Wise and his defense in CF is quite valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) I agree completely. Dewayne Wise is not a major league player, I've said it before. I've also said before, and will continue to, that you can make a long list of outfielders just in the organization, that are better than Wise. He should be about the 8th OF, by my math. 8th is being generous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:26 AM) Went where? I'm saying the same thing over and over. I'm talking about the game. Baseball. Not micro-analyzing one decision. So what if Wise starts over BA. I mean, let's just enjoy being there. Of course it's more fun when they are winning...but we are talking like a bunch of whiny babies over one position. The pitching is better...the hitting overall is better, let's focus on that instead of one guy. (I'm starting to sound like Billy Crystal in Running Scared..."One guy...you are going to give all that coke to...one...guy...?") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:26 AM) Just a question...when is an experiment no longer an experiment? I mean, he's been here for 5 years. I think he is who he is. And the front office likes it. I know the front office likes him, doesn't mean I have to. I call it an experiment only because Ozzie is a rough-edged guy, very different than you find in most ML managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) I'm talking about the game. Baseball. Not micro-analyzing one decision. So what if Wise starts over BA. I mean, let's just enjoy being there. Of course it's more fun when they are winning...but we are talking like a bunch of whiny babies over one position. The pitching is better...the hitting overall is better, let's focus on that instead of one guy. (I'm starting to sound like Billy Crystal in Running Scared..."One guy...you are going to give all that coke to...one...guy...?") I try, but it's just not fun watching DeWayne Wise play. I really don't mind him coming in as a pinch runner, or pinch hitting for Anderson against a right-handed reliever. Beyond that, seeing him get half the playing time is so frustrating. I was tenuous about it when the season started because Anderson hadn't proven he was a better hitter than Wise (mainly, because last year he was sitting vs. RHP when he shouldn't have been, hitting a lot of homers vs. lefties but not doing much else). But Anderson's clearly improved and Wise will never be more than he is. Every time I see Wise start when he shouldn't I'm reminded that Ozzie doesn't see it. It's not like when a player gets traded and he's gone, and I have to get over it. It's something that's constantly going on and I don't have to like it. Edited June 3, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) I try, but it's just not fun watching DeWayne Wise play. I really don't mind him coming in as a pinch runner, or pinch hitting for Anderson against a right-handed reliever. Beyond that, seeing him get half the playing time is so frustrating. I was tenuous about it when the season started because Anderson hadn't proven he was a better hitter than Wise (mainly, because last year he was sitting vs. RHP when he shouldn't have been, hitting a lot of homers vs. lefties but not doing much else). But Anderson's clearly improved and Wise will never be more than he is. Every time I see Wise start when he shouldn't I'm reminded that Ozzie doesn't see it. It's not like when a player gets traded and he's gone, and I have to get over it. It's something that's constantly going on and I don't have to like it. My sentiments exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) Brian, of course, could make this whole thing easier by PLAYING BETTER. Amazing how people want to pick any one thing he does well and wave it like a flag as to why Brian deserves to be a regular and questioning why Ozzie 'doesn't get it'. What part of having a sub .700 OPS are you not paying attention to??? Let's put this in perspective. In 690 career at-bats, Brian has a .661 OPS, which is over 20 points lower than Jeremy Reed's career numbers. So... why are people screaming that we need to have that type of production in our lineup? Sub-.700 is not good. That is barely hanging on to the bottom rung of the MLB ladder type production. When Brian plays well enough to be a real MLB regular, he'll get the job. Don't blame management for his inability to get the job done. Edited June 3, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I really hope this isn't like years past, where we struggle to get to .500, but can never get over the hump. Also, how long is Quentin out for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Brian, of course, could make this whole thing easier by PLAYING BETTER. Amazing how people want to pick any one thing he does well and wave it like a flag as to why Brian deserves to be a regular and questioning why Ozzie 'doesn't get it'. What part of having a sub .700 OPS are you not paying attention to??? Get a grip. When Brian plays well enough to be a real MLB regular, he'll get the job. Don't blame management for his inability to get the job done. Wow, one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here. Congrats to you! .269/.352/.344/.696 .172/.200/.172/.372 So what the f*** has DeWayne f***ing Wise done to "get" the job (besides suck)? Edited June 3, 2009 by TitoMB345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Brian, of course, could make this whole thing easier by PLAYING BETTER. Amazing how people want to pick any one thing he does well and wave it like a flag as to why Brian deserves to be a regular and questioning why Ozzie 'doesn't get it'. What part of having a sub .700 OPS are you not paying attention to??? Get a grip. When Brian plays well enough to be a real MLB regular, he'll get the job. Don't blame management for his inability to get the job done. BA's OPS was above .700 before this latest platoon business. Regardless, why should one need a .700+ OPS to start over someone with a sub-.400 OPS? Edited June 3, 2009 by JorgeFabregas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:44 AM) Brian, of course, could make this whole thing easier by PLAYING BETTER. Amazing how people want to pick any one thing he does well and wave it like a flag as to why Brian deserves to be a regular and questioning why Ozzie 'doesn't get it'. What part of having a sub .700 OPS are you not paying attention to??? Get a grip. When Brian plays well enough to be a real MLB regular, he'll get the job. Don't blame management for his inability to get the job done. Uh he did - this is nonsense anyway, the whole thing with him has always been that if he doesn't play, he doesn't get better, plus there are vultures hovering over him after every bad game. He HAS been looking MUCH better at the plate than he has in the past and apparently this is still an issue. Last week his OPS was .750. He hasn't been hitting for power because he's been trying to reconcile his poor mechanics, which isn't something that happens overnight, this is why his OPS is under .700 (right now - it's been floating over and under, so talk about cherry-picking). We know he has power, his other issues were more glaring... if he's platooned, look for him to regress some more. You know though, I'd take a .696 OPS over a .372 OPS. Just saying. Edited June 3, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Brian, of course, could make this whole thing easier by PLAYING BETTER. Amazing how people want to pick any one thing he does well and wave it like a flag as to why Brian deserves to be a regular and questioning why Ozzie 'doesn't get it'. What part of having a sub .700 OPS are you not paying attention to??? Get a grip. When Brian plays well enough to be a real MLB regular, he'll get the job. Don't blame management for his inability to get the job done. The platoon makes no sense. The numbers don't even support it. Anderson against righties .313BA/.370OBP/.703OPS Anderson against lefties .154BA/.313OPB/.505 OPS And we are going to get him more ABs against lefties, why. Edited June 3, 2009 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Scenariowned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) The platoon makes no sense. The numbers don't even support it. Anderson against righties .313BA/.370OBP/.703OPS Anderson against lefties .154BA/.313OPB/.505 OPS And we are going to get him more ABs against lefties, why. Just like last year. It burns my ass to no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:02 AM) And we are going to get him more ABs against lefties, why. Because Ozzie Guillen doesn't know how to manage a lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:57 AM) Wow, one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here. Congrats to you! .269/.352/.344/.696 .172/.200/.172/.372 So what the f*** has DeWayne f***ing Wise done to "get" the job (besides suck)? You didn't really just make a comparison based on the 29 at-bats Wise this year, did you? And called what I said dumb? Look... I'm not suggesting Wise is the answer. So far, he's shown he's a marginal player too. I just don't see why people get so religious about why one marginal player needs to be sat down so another marginal player gets to play... And then screaming that the manager needs to be fired because "he doesn't get it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) You didn't really just make a comparison based on the 29 at-bats Wise this year, did you? And called what I said dumb? Look... I'm not suggesting Wise is the answer. So far, he's shown he's a marginal player too. I just don't see why people get so religious about why one marginal player needs to be sat down so another marginal player gets to play... And then screaming that the manager needs to be fired because "he doesn't get it". If Wise was producing more then sure, platoon. But all things being equal, I would rather have someone who can catch the ball in CF right now as opposed to adventures in outfielding. Brian is not a great offensive player, he has made some strides this year. Yes he sucks when men are on, and he puts pressure on himself. But right now there is no reason that Wise is on this team. He provides nothing. My hopes for long term, is that Jordan Danks takes this position and runs with it for the future. Some seasoning, but the talent is definately there. Edited June 3, 2009 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:02 AM) The platoon makes no sense. The numbers don't even support it. Anderson against righties .313BA/.370OBP/.703OPS Anderson against lefties .154BA/.313OPB/.505 OPS And we are going to get him more ABs against lefties, why. I swear there should be a law against using small samples to support arguments. How about... last year in a larger sample Wise hit righties better and Anderson hit lefties better? Anyway... I'm not trying to pick on you (or anyone else specifically for that matter)... I'm as frustrated as anybody with the 'hole' we have in center. I just don't buy into the view of the Brian-ites that seem to believe he is the answer... and anybody who doesn't get it is stupid. Edited June 3, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Overall, I think there is little doubt that Ozzie is a good manager. But he is far from perfect, and this Wise thing is (IMO) the worst managing decision I have seen from him in his career. Worse than Mack in CF (who could at least hit), worse than his early handling of pitchers, worse than his off-color comments at times. He is deciding to play a guy he likes, because he works hard, and he isn't Brian Anderson. Its just a terrible management decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) You didn't really just make a comparison based on the 29 at-bats Wise this year, did you? And called what I said dumb? Look... I'm not suggesting Wise is the answer. So far, he's shown he's a marginal player too. I just don't see why people get so religious about why one marginal player needs to be sat down so another marginal player gets to play... And then screaming that the manager needs to be fired because "he doesn't get it". My wanting Ozzie gone is more based on the passed 3 years of mis-managing. This is just the icing on the cake. And how has Wise shown he's even a marginal player? He hasn't done anything. I don't care if its only been 29 ABs. Brian absolutely deserves to be playing over him. Now, if we had another person who could play CF and hit better than Brian, then I'd be 100% behind him starting. But we don't. Brian is our best possible CFer, period. That's the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 10:25 AM) For all of you who laughed when we said Wise would be starting/playing over BA.. HA! Ozzie is an idiot, and I want him fired after the season. The Ozzie Guillen experiment should be over. Fail. You can want whatever you want, but its not going to happen. And Wise will be in AAA in a few days with BA starting everyday again and you will still be there pouting about something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 3, 2009 -> 12:16 PM) I swear there should be a law against using small samples to support arguments. How about... last year in a larger sample Wise hit righties better and Anderson hit lefties better? That's not really that small of a sample size for Anderson although he's not going to hit lefties .150 all year. But last year, before Ozzie started playing Anderson exclusively vs. lefties, the R-L splits looked about the same before his numbers took a dive. I even started a thread about it. He saw only sporadic at-bats against RHP and his long, loopy swing returned. At the beginning of the year he had a completely different stance and approach, but Swisher was firmly entrenched as the starter. Wise's 29 ABs this year as a small sample size is irrelevant. You don't need numbers from this year to tell you he isn't good. Edited June 3, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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