The Great Brian Anderson Debacle

[ILMOU]

And in the first half, the Sox dominated the AL with BA not hitting. Also in 2006 during July and August, BA hit .300. That's something that has long been forgotten. That meant Darin Erstad had to lead off in 2007. There is no question BA wasn't quite ready in 2006, but there is equally no question BA has had a much shorter leash than anyone else since. Brent Lillibridge led off after Ozzie started popping off about him playing in Korea.

 

I should also say that BA's so-called improvement during '06 is vastly overrated. He was getting far fewer AB's by August, and he'd given up any semblance of power merely trying to make contact. He's doing the same thing this year, so this talk of 15-20 HR, 75-80 RBI is a pipe dream.

 

That said, he should be playing everyday, or nearly every day on THIS team, and it pisses me off that he isn't. Now is the time to get him the AB's he needs, I agree. I just want him getting on base in the 9 hole, and playing stellar D. When JorDanks arrives, BA can be a quality 4th OF, and defensive replacement for one of the corners.

 

I'm equally pissed that Chris Getz is not getting a fair shake currently, being needlessly platooned.

 

[Special K]

Fill-in the blank with name of manager of your choice and you have your typical manager slam post found on practically every baseball board on the Internet. Yawn.

 

Reality check... the team has won 90 or more games in 3 of the last 4 years.

 

In the bottom line, it's about winning games. And Ozzie's teams consistently outperform their Pythagorean projections.

 

So, if it makes you feel better to rag on him, knock yourself out, but don't expect to influence alot of people to your point of view.

 

Managers make the difference in the playoffs and close games. They win championships with their decision making during games. In OG's case, he was fortunate to ride through the playoffs through complete game after complete game by our starters. A monkey could have sat in the dugout and managed us to a championship with that pitching. People get upset b/c they realize Ozzie sometimes hinders us from further success... i.e. letting Javy start game 1 of the playoffs last year, or not taking Colon out last night in the 5th when he walked the bases loaded, BEFORE he gave up the double that cost us the game. Instead, Ozzie lets him give up a double and then decides to pull him two outs later after the game is out of reach. That is why people complain about Ozzie being a bad manager.

[TheBigHurt]

Thank you

 

And I'm not even one of the negative nancies.

 

Me neither. But there's a difference between being negative and being REALISTIC. REALISM is that Ozzie mismanages this team and its players as if he WANTED to get fired.

[scenario]

...

 

 

STILL waiting for someone to say something with a valid point.

 

Using other managers in comparison is NOT a valid argument. Seriously, have any of you even finished puberty?

 

Look... you obviously don't like the guy. Fine.

 

Don't lower yourself to insulting people just because they don't agree with you.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I should also say that BA's so-called improvement during '06 is vastly overrated. He was getting far fewer AB's by August, and he'd given up any semblance of power merely trying to make contact. He's doing the same thing this year, so this talk of 15-20 HR, 75-80 RBI is a pipe dream.

 

That said, he should be playing everyday, or nearly every day on THIS team, and it pisses me off that he isn't. Now is the time to get him the AB's he needs, I agree. I just want him getting on base in the 9 hole, and playing stellar D. When JorDanks arrives, BA can be a quality 4th OF, and defensive replacement for one of the corners.

 

I'm equally pissed that Chris Getz is not getting a fair shake currently, being needlessly platooned.

 

Getz plays when he is healthy. The guy has already broken his finger and sprained his ankle and it is barely June

[lostfan]

you mean how he was handed the starting job in spring and by June still couldn't hit his weight?

He was god f***ing awful, then given an ultimatum by Ozzie, then turned around and hit .300 for about 2 months before he cooled off again at the end. It's almost like that never happened though. That was followed up in '07 by the pretty disastrous decision to use Erstad.

 

That said, '06 has nothing to do with this anymore.

[greg775]

My take:

Ozzie is an above average manager. We're lucky to have him. Players play for him. That said, he'll be fired some day like they all are.

Brian Anderson is an average to below average player. Good fielder though.

Wise is a below average player.

Anderson is better than Wise.

Neither are anything special.

Oz should be playing Brian almost every day. But if he doesn't, it is not that big a deal. Wise and Anderson both are nothing to be happy about.

[TheBigHurt]

I should also say that BA's so-called improvement during '06 is vastly overrated. He was getting far fewer AB's by August, and he'd given up any semblance of power merely trying to make contact. He's doing the same thing this year, so this talk of 15-20 HR, 75-80 RBI is a pipe dream.

 

That said, he should be playing everyday, or nearly every day on THIS team, and it pisses me off that he isn't. Now is the time to get him the AB's he needs, I agree. I just want him getting on base in the 9 hole, and playing stellar D. When JorDanks arrives, BA can be a quality 4th OF, and defensive replacement for one of the corners.

 

I'm equally pissed that Chris Getz is not getting a fair shake currently, being needlessly platooned.

 

Yeah, I haven't been able to watch many games lately, but when I have I think, "Where the hell is Getz?"

 

So can someone fill me in on what's up with that? Hopefully not ANOTHER Ozzie blunder.

[TheBigHurt]

My take:

Ozzie is an above average manager. We're lucky to have him. Players play for him. That said, he'll be fired some day like they all are.

Brian Anderson is an average to below average player. Good fielder though.

Wise is a below average player.

Anderson is better than Wise.

Neither are anything special.

Oz should be playing Brian almost every day. But if he doesn't, it is not that big a deal. Wise and Anderson both are nothing to be happy about.

 

I think you just glumly and SEVERELY downplayed the situation.

 

BA isn't anything to be happy about?

 

I really just don't understand people sometimes.

[lostfan]

I should also say that BA's so-called improvement during '06 is vastly overrated. He was getting far fewer AB's by August, and he'd given up any semblance of power merely trying to make contact. He's doing the same thing this year, so this talk of 15-20 HR, 75-80 RBI is a pipe dream.

 

That said, he should be playing everyday, or nearly every day on THIS team, and it pisses me off that he isn't. Now is the time to get him the AB's he needs, I agree. I just want him getting on base in the 9 hole, and playing stellar D. When JorDanks arrives, BA can be a quality 4th OF, and defensive replacement for one of the corners.

 

I'm equally pissed that Chris Getz is not getting a fair shake currently, being needlessly platooned.

He had to pretty much completely tear down his approach and mechanics and build it up again, and start from square 1 with the basics (i.e., hitting for contact). It's been mentioned before but this is not something that should've taken until the major leagues to identify.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, I haven't been able to watch many games lately, but when I have I think, "Where the hell is Getz?"

 

So can someone fill me in on what's up with that? Hopefully not ANOTHER Ozzie blunder.

 

He twisted an ankle during the last series, he is out for at least the A's series.

[Lemon_44]

Me neither. But there's a difference between being negative and being REALISTIC. REALISM is that Ozzie mismanages this team and its players as if he WANTED to get fired.

realism is that he's had 1 losing record in 5 years and averages 87 wins per year. I guess if he didn't mismanage the team team so bad he'd be averaging 95+wins/ year.

[Lemon_44]

My take:

Ozzie is an above average manager. We're lucky to have him. Players play for him. That said, he'll be fired some day like they all are.

Brian Anderson is an average to below average player. Good fielder though.

Wise is a below average player.

Anderson is better than Wise.

Neither are anything special.

Oz should be playing Brian almost every day. But if he doesn't, it is not that big a deal. Wise and Anderson both are nothing to be happy about.

well said, i agree 100%.

[southsider2k5]

realism is that he's had 1 losing record in 5 years and averages 87 wins per year. I guess if he didn't mismanage the team team so bad he'd be averaging 95+wins/ year.

 

Not to mention he outpreforms pythagaron by a good margin pretty much every year.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think you just glumly and SEVERELY downplayed the situation.

 

BA isn't anything to be happy about?

 

I really just don't understand people sometimes.

You need to tone it down. You have been pushing the insult line with other posters here, over and over again - cool it.

 

Also, you are waaaaaaay over the top with the Ozzie hatred.

 

You want some evidence that Ozzie is a good manager? Here is a measure for you... Ozzie fairly regularly beats most other managers in Pythagorean results analysis. The measure is used to show how many games their team should theoretically have one, referencing run differential in an equation. Ozzie's teams have a habit, regularly, of beating expectations.

 

[Dick Allen]

Not to mention he outpreforms pythagaron by a good margin pretty much every year.

A lot of that is run differential and the White Sox have a screwy differential due to how the team is built with inconsistent run totals. Ozzie isn't a problem IMO. We would have issues with just about any manager. There are many ways to run a baseball game, and there is more than one correct answer. I think Ozzie does have favorites, but so does everybody including all of us posters. I wish BA would play more, if for the sole reason to find out if he is what he is or if he can be more, and he does help a team if he isn't hitting. Its not like Wise is going to mean more wins. Maybe he still is ill and will play more when he gets better.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

And the crap goes on, insults, call outs, prayers. I am excited to watch this thread sink to the bottom when the teams wins tonight.

[ILMOU]

Getz plays when he is healthy. The guy has already broken his finger and sprained his ankle and it is barely June

 

Yeah, he seems to be injury prone right now. Perhaps you didn't see the following from today's Trib:

 

Personnel matters: Second baseman Chris Getz probably won't return to the starting lineup until Thursday. Getz showed improvement from a right ankle bruise but won't play Wednesday night because Oakland is starting left-hander Josh Outman.

 

[justBLAZE]

I love how people just mindlessly spew that TCQ will be back on June 10. If he is back, I doubt he's healthy. This will be an issue for awhile.

 

Too bad half the board mindlessly spews that Beckham will be up here before TCQ, that however is justified.

[ILMOU]

And the crap goes on, insults, call outs, prayers. I am excited to watch this thread sink to the bottom when the teams wins tonight.

 

Nothing seems to make the natives more restless than a discussion centered on BA. He really doesn't deserve this much attention.

[Reddy]

And the crap goes on, insults, call outs, prayers. I am excited to watch this thread sink to the bottom when the teams wins tonight.

yeah you're right. you are better than the rest of us.

[RockRaines]

yeah you're right. you are better than the rest of us.

I never said that, but thanks, I'll take that as a compliment.

[fathom]

You need to tone it down. You have been pushing the insult line with other posters here, over and over again - cool it.

 

Also, you are waaaaaaay over the top with the Ozzie hatred.

 

You want some evidence that Ozzie is a good manager? Here is a measure for you... Ozzie fairly regularly beats most other managers in Pythagorean results analysis. The measure is used to show how many games their team should theoretically have one, referencing run differential in an equation. Ozzie's teams have a habit, regularly, of beating expectations.

 

Ozzie's had one of his better years so far with in-game managing. He's handled our pitchers perfectly, for the most part.

[TheBigHurt]

realism is that he's had 1 losing record in 5 years and averages 87 wins per year. I guess if he didn't mismanage the team team so bad he'd be averaging 95+wins/ year.

 

I stand corrected. I guess I rest my case. There's just no point anymore. Denial is not a river in the Amazon.

 

 

You need to tone it down. You have been pushing the insult line with other posters here, over and over again - cool it.

 

Also, you are waaaaaaay over the top with the Ozzie hatred.

 

You want some evidence that Ozzie is a good manager? Here is a measure for you... Ozzie fairly regularly beats most other managers in Pythagorean results analysis. The measure is used to show how many games their team should theoretically have one, referencing run differential in an equation. Ozzie's teams have a habit, regularly, of beating expectations.

 

I don't see how asking people to actually make a VALID POINT is being "insulting" or "pushing a line." You'll have to explain that one to me.

 

Again, as another poster here said, I'm waiting for someone to add something to the discussion instead of blind praise for a man who has clearly showed his ignorance, ineptness and incompetence in his managing.

 

Ok, yeah, we have a good record in the last 5 years or so, we won a series, we won the division MIRACULOUSLY last year. But yet that has NOTHING to do with the simple fact he's not that good a manager. Whether some of you believe it or not, it's just changing the subject.

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU WIN DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALWAYS PLAYED IT RIGHT. That's the point. "Yeah, but we won!" doesn't mean it was played well. The term "winning ugly" was invented for a reason.

 

 

 

It seems kinda like this around here:

 

Ozzie's managing is atrocious! "Other managers are bad too, so it's okay!"

Ozzie's being a complete idiot! "But we won, so no, he's a GREAT manager!"

 

 

 

So as I said, stop with the "Well, we win games!" it may be true but in the end it has nothing to do with the point. I'm just saying that Ozzie's managing is atrocious. Somehow in many of your minds that simply isn't true because of our overall record. All you are doing is denying the truth and changing the subject.

Edited June 3, 2009 by TheBigHurt

[fathom]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.