The Great Brian Anderson Debacle

[TheBigHurt]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.

 

Sorry, but I disagree here, although I think the issue isn't as much about how good Anderson is, just the fact that there's no reason for Wise to be playing over him; NONE AT ALL. That's all there is to it.

[everafan]

So why would he make that promise to one of the worst players in our organization and not to the guy/guys who actually deserves it? This makes ZERO sense.

 

 

Not if you take into account that the endpoint is next week. Anderson had that opportunity also. Ozzie doesn't believe Anderson can help the team as an every day player. He may be right, even if most of us think Anderson is the best chioce considering the options. The fans are starting to give Anderson the messiah treatment a la Crede and Rowand. Mind you - I think Ozzie is making a mistake here - but he's not a horrible manager because he doesn't agree with a bunch of fanatics like us. We are not experts - at best we are informed observers.

Edited June 3, 2009 by everafan

[The Ginger Kid]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.

 

 

[Reddy]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.

Defense alone renders this an inaccurate post. Even if Brian batted .000 he'd be more valuable than Dweezy and his terrible reads and jumps.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Overall I like Ozzie as a manager, but I just can't understand what goes through his head when it comes to CF, grinders, speed, and trying to turn career minor league prototypical 4th/5th OFers into prototypical lead-off men.

 

I have said many times that Ozzie is a great manager for developing pitchers. But if he takes PT away from BA after BA has proven so far that he's ready to be a league average or near-league average hitter and GG defender at a position that has been a revolving door since Rowand left, then f*** him anyway.

[jenksycat]

What I've learned from this thread:

 

Ozzie is a terrible manager who accounts for all our losses.

Ozzie has no impact on wins since we would have won anyway.

 

 

Makes sense. All the blame for losses, none of the recognition for wins.

[GreatScott82]

Brian is much better than Wise and Pods. He should be playing every day as our CF. The only reason why he is not is because we lack a true leadoff hitter and that is the reason why KW brought Pods back. I'm not going to bash Pods, i think the team became energized with his presence in the clubhouse, but if KW had a true leadoff guy say at 2B, then BA would be out there no doubt. I know for a fact KW wants Getz and Fields to succeed so he can use one of them or maybe even both to aqcuire a Freddy Sanchez type player and a starting pitcher.

 

My predictions before the trade deadline:

 

Fields will be sent down. Beckham WILL be brought up to replace the struggling 3B.

 

Getz will be traded in a package for a leadoff hitter or starting pitcher.

 

And last but not least BA will be our 4th and sometimes 5th OF

[Lemon_44]

I stand corrected. I guess I rest my case. There's just no point anymore. Denial is not a river in the Amazon.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how asking people to actually make a VALID POINT is being "insulting" or "pushing a line." You'll have to explain that one to me.

 

Again, as another poster here said, I'm waiting for someone to add something to the discussion instead of blind praise for a man who has clearly showed his ignorance, ineptness and incompetence in his managing.

 

Ok, yeah, we have a good record in the last 5 years or so, we won a series, we won the division MIRACULOUSLY last year. But yet that has NOTHING to do with the simple fact he's not that good a manager. Whether some of you believe it or not, it's just changing the subject.

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU WIN DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALWAYS PLAYED IT RIGHT. That's the point. "Yeah, but we won!" doesn't mean it was played well. The term "winning ugly" was invented for a reason.

 

 

 

It seems kinda like this around here:

 

Ozzie's managing is atrocious! "Other managers are bad too, so it's okay!"

Ozzie's being a complete idiot! "But we won, so no, he's a GREAT manager!"

 

 

 

So as I said, stop with the "Well, we win games!" it may be true but in the end it has nothing to do with the point. I'm just saying that Ozzie's managing is atrocious. Somehow in many of your minds that simply isn't true because of our overall record. All you are doing is denying the truth and changing the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

let me get this straight. You'd rather have a manager that makes all the correct moves, IN YOUR EYES, and finishes 71-91 than a guy who does things you disagree with yet wins 90 games. Okay then. I get it .

[southsider2k5]

I stand corrected. I guess I rest my case. There's just no point anymore. Denial is not a river in the Amazon.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how asking people to actually make a VALID POINT is being "insulting" or "pushing a line." You'll have to explain that one to me.

 

Again, as another poster here said, I'm waiting for someone to add something to the discussion instead of blind praise for a man who has clearly showed his ignorance, ineptness and incompetence in his managing.

 

Ok, yeah, we have a good record in the last 5 years or so, we won a series, we won the division MIRACULOUSLY last year. But yet that has NOTHING to do with the simple fact he's not that good a manager. Whether some of you believe it or not, it's just changing the subject.

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU WIN DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALWAYS PLAYED IT RIGHT. That's the point. "Yeah, but we won!" doesn't mean it was played well. The term "winning ugly" was invented for a reason.

 

 

 

It seems kinda like this around here:

 

Ozzie's managing is atrocious! "Other managers are bad too, so it's okay!"

Ozzie's being a complete idiot! "But we won, so no, he's a GREAT manager!"

 

 

 

So as I said, stop with the "Well, we win games!" it may be true but in the end it has nothing to do with the point. I'm just saying that Ozzie's managing is atrocious. Somehow in many of your minds that simply isn't true because of our overall record. All you are doing is denying the truth and changing the subject.

 

So how many games does the Sox have to win before its the fans, and not Ozzie, who doesn't know what they are doing? Or what exact arbitrary method do you have for measuring a manager?

[Balta1701]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.

So Dewayne Wise doesn't lose his starting job to injury but Anderson loses his due to illness?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[lostfan]

Defense alone renders this an inaccurate post. Even if Brian batted .000 he'd be more valuable than Dweezy and his terrible reads and jumps.

Hyperbole at its finest

[Kyyle23]

Is this argument moot since Ozzie is starting Anderson tonite and not Dweezy?

Edited June 3, 2009 by kyyle23

[BigSqwert]

Is this argument moot since Ozzie is starting tonite and not Dweezy?

He playing SS?

[justBLAZE]

Is this argument moot since Ozzie is starting tonite and not Dweezy?

 

SS or CF?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry had to.

[Balta1701]

Is this argument moot since Ozzie is starting tonite and not Dweezy?

There's an LHP on the mound.

 

BRIAN ANDERSON CAN'T HIT RIGHT HANDERS.

 

DEWAYNE WISE CAN'T HIT LEFT HANDERS.

 

DEWAYNE WISE KILLS RIGHT HANDERS.

[Reddy]

Hyperbole at its finest

i've said in the past that i'm a big fan of that ole hyperbole.

 

but the point is, the fact that he is light years better defensively than Wise AND has an average in the .260s AND has a .350 OBP makes this an obvious, obvious, obvious decision that our manager is somehow ignoring. And to respond again to fathom's point, how is a disparity THAT huge not something that should give one pause?

[Lemon_44]

Ok, yeah, we have a good record in the last 5 years or so, we won a series, we won the division MIRACULOUSLY last year. But yet that has NOTHING to do with the simple fact he's not that good a manager.

 

in my short time here, that may be one of the funnier things i have read.

 

that's kind of like saying Tiger Woods really isn't all that good because he misses alot of fairways off the tee.Nevermind the fact that he wins all the time, he needs to straighten out that driver.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Brian Anderson isn't a good enough player to get this worked up about. It's not like if Ozzie would have platooned Owens with Quentin last year. All Anderson had to do was get one clutch hit in the last week and/or not get sick, and we wouldn't have seen this thread.

Aaron Rowand in 2005: .270/.329/.407/.736

Brian Anderson so far in 2009: .269/.352/.344/.696

 

If Brian could be as productive offensively as Rowand was in 2005 (the last year of CF stability for us) plus give us an even better glove, then yes, he is a "good enough player to get this worked up about" because the players we're talking about Brian sitting for don't even belong in CF to begin with.

[Kyyle23]

He playing SS?

 

 

He playing SS?

 

 

you guys are much quicker than my edits

 

 

well done

[TitoMB345]

What I've learned from this thread:

 

Ozzie is a terrible manager who accounts for all our losses.

Ozzie has no impact on wins since we would have won anyway.

 

 

Makes sense. All the blame for losses, none of the recognition for wins.

I hope there is at least a little sarcasm in this post, because I haven't seen anyone say anything close to this.

Edited June 3, 2009 by TitoMB345

[lostfan]

i've said in the past that i'm a big fan of that ole hyperbole.

 

but the point is, the fact that he is light years better defensively than Wise AND has an average in the .260s AND has a .350 OBP makes this an obvious, obvious, obvious decision that our manager is somehow ignoring. And to respond again to fathom's point, how is a disparity THAT huge not something that should give one pause?

Wise isn't as bad as I thought he'd be out there but he sure does a fine job of making his fielding of routine fly balls look pretty.

[Dick Allen]

DEWAYNE WISE KILLS RIGHT HANDERS.

4-27 this year

 

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+

vs RHP as LH 184 461 428 92 18 8 13 43 17 1 21 82 .215 .256 .386 .641 165 8 3 7 2 2 9

Career. Yeah, .215 avg. .256 OBP .386 slugging pct. .641 OPS lifetime vs. RHP. He absolutely kills them.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Dick Allen

[TheBigHurt]

Not if you take into account that the endpoint is next week. Anderson had that opportunity also. Ozzie doesn't believe Anderson can help the team as an every day player. He may be right, even if most of us think Anderson is the best chioce considering the options. The fans are starting to give Anderson the messiah treatment a la Crede and Rowand. Mind you - I think Ozzie is making a mistake here - but he's not a horrible manager because he doesn't agree with a bunch of fanatics like us. We are not experts - at best we are informed observers.

 

Ozzie doesn't believe a guy who's CLEARLY a FAR better player than his love child Wise is more deserving? And you are buying into that? Is this a serious post???

 

No, dude... I'm not an expert... but putting Wise in CF over Anderson in the 9th inning with a 1 run lead is STUPID, and that's a TINY example of the frequent blunders Ozzie commits. He doesn't put his team in the best situations to win... he fails to do this OFTEN.

 

 

So how many games does the Sox have to win before its the fans, and not Ozzie, who doesn't know what they are doing? Or what exact arbitrary method do you have for measuring a manager?

 

What you're not getting is that I'm not proposing a better idea or what should be done. I'd just appreciate it if instead of trying to argue around facts and make up s*** that someone could just ACKNOWLEDGE that what I'm saying about Ozzie's constant mismanagement is true. We don't need to talk a bout who we should get instead, who's better, what a better situation is, etc. because that's not what I'm talking about. As usual, you as a defender are bringing up irrelevant points. ALL I'M SAYING is that Ozzie is a bad in-game manager, and THAT'S IT; not who is better, not comparisons to other managers, no proposing a situation, just laying out a small fact. THAT'S ALL.

 

/End rant. Continue your denial and arguing around the point as Im sure you will.

[Kyyle23]

I hope there is at least a little sarcasm in this post, because I haven't seen anyone say anything close to this.

 

You must be ignoring The Big Hurts posts then

[TheBigHurt]

I hope there is at least a little sarcasm in this post, because I haven't seen anyone say anything close to this.

 

He's referring to me. I'm not saying Ozzie shouldn't ever be commended, I'm just fed up with people who have to change the subject, defend Ozzie pointlessly and can't just ADMIT that Ozzie makes a lot of really COLOSSAL f***ups

 

I mean, COME ON, the subject of this topic ALONE is enough showcase of what a dolt Ozzie is.

Edited June 3, 2009 by TheBigHurt