justBLAZE Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Blame it on the weather.. We kicked ass in LA and KC, when it was hot out... Not sure if this should be green or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 07:13 PM) So if the hitting coach has nothing to do with the team's hitting.. please, explain to me why the job exists? s***s and giggles? Has Josh Fields looked better over the last week or two or not? Has Brian Anderson's swing looked significantly better this season or not? Has Getz shown improvement like he's getting over his difficulties in May as pitchers adapted to him? Has Alexei Ramirez gotten past his early season slump? If Greg Walker actually does the things people here think he does, teaching "Lift and pull" and all that crap, sure, fire him. I don't believe he does that, and I think we can back that up with a fair number of quotes from people talking about how he's helped them learn to go the other way, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Changing hitting coaches isn't going to fix the 1-7 problem against new pitchers. That would be the scout's jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 09:16 PM) Has Josh Fields looked better over the last week or two or not? Has Brian Anderson's swing looked significantly better this season or not? Has Getz shown improvement like he's getting over his difficulties in May as pitchers adapted to him? Has Alexei Ramirez gotten past his early season slump? Does Brian Anderson still look completely baffled when he sees a 3-2 curve? Why does every single young, unknown pitcher own us? Why do they look completely unaware with the pitchers stuff (even though most of them did the same thing, over and over)? As John Madden say, "90% of the game is half mental." Preparation is a huge part of the game, and Greg Walker fails at making sure his hitters are prepared. Now, if this isn't part of his job, then my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 07:20 PM) Does Brian Anderson still look completely baffled when he sees a 3-2 curve? Why does every single young, unknown pitcher own us? Why do they look completely unaware with the pitchers stuff (even though most of them did the same thing, over and over)? As John Madden say, "90% of the game is half mental." Preparation is a huge part of the game, and Greg Walker fails at making sure his hitters are prepared. Now, if this isn't part of his job, then my bad. Here's what Ozzie actually had to say on this issue today. "Too little, too much," Guillen said of the preparation against first-time pitchers. "Scouting reports, you have to believe in them because they are there for a reason. Videos are there for a reason. [but] we try to analyze too much who we are going to face. Some people need video, and some people don't. "To me, the philosophy is see the ball, put the best swing on the ball and see what happens. Don't get caught up looking for pitches." It certainly sounds like the materials are available for the guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 02:16 AM) If Greg Walker actually does the things people here think he does, teaching "Lift and pull" and all that crap, sure, fire him. It's no longer about what we do under him, it's about what we don't. That is, we have absolutely no approach against certain guys... say guys we've never seen before. 1-7 with an ERA in the mid 1s against first time pitchers speaks for itself. It's astonishingly bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 07:26 PM) It's no longer about what we do under him, it's about what we don't. That is, we have absolutely no approach against certain guys... say guys we've never seen before. 1-7 with an ERA in the mid 1s against first time pitchers speaks for itself. It's astonishingly bad. But then on the other hand, there are more than a few guys who we wind up having surprisngly good approaches against. Justin Verlander is the classic example; we've probably already cost him a cy young award by being the only team he's always shellacked by . That's one thing that always drives me crazy about the "Fire walker!" hysteria. Whenever we do come out and have a good plan against a guy, come out and beat on a guy who we really shouldn't be pounding, he never gets any credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 02:30 AM) But then on the other hand, there are more than a few guys who we wind up having surprisngly good approaches against. Justin Verlander is the classic example; we've probably already cost him a cy young award by being the only team he's always shellacked by . That's one thing that always drives me crazy about the "Fire walker!" hysteria. Whenever we do come out and have a good plan against a guy, come out and beat on a guy who we really shouldn't be pounding, he never gets any credit. I would say I could probably come up with a half-way decent scouting report after seeing a pitcher up close 10+ times. We need a guy in there who stresses the importance of analyzing scouting because this current plan clearly is not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 07:35 PM) I would say I could probably come up with a half-way decent scouting report after seeing a pitcher up close 10+ times. We need a guy in there who stresses the importance of analyzing scouting because this current plan clearly is not working. And so what happens if we have all the correct videos and scouting reports that you guys think we don't have yet still aren't hitting these guys? How do we interpret that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 02:36 AM) And so what happens if we have all the correct videos and scouting reports that you guys think we don't have yet still aren't hitting these guys? How do we interpret that? The canning Walker was of no loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've argued to reassign Walker since 2007. I give up. Maybe the scouting is the problem. Here is what I'd do for the next game against a pitcher that the Sox have not faced. NO scouting, video, or even discussing the pitcher. Play an agreed upon comedy movie like Major League during the time usually dedicated to studying the pitcher. Then put everyone's name in a hat and the order they are drawn determines the batting order. Everyone with a mustache shaves and everyone including Hawk and Stone wear fake mustaches if they normally shave. In other words, loosen the sphincters and say to hell with it. At least if they get shut out, they can say they had some fun and get back to work the next day. Whatever they are doing now sucks and we are all tired of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 08:46 PM) Frankly, on this one, I'm willing to take it. If they want to come after me for thinking that the immediate response to any and all bad series is "Fire Greg Walker!" regardless of anything, and I piss people off by ridiculing those threads, I'm so game. There's no analysis to saying "Fire the hitting coach!" any time something weird happens in someone's statistics. This thread has nothing to do with Greg Walker. His name shows up nowhere in the initial post. It doesn't even state a clear debate, but instead merely shows us the facts. You assumed it was another Greg Walker thread because that's what you wanted it to be. Give me a break, Balta. If there's one thing you're right on, it's that yes, you should take these shots--because they're 100% warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (BobDylan @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 07:56 PM) This thread has nothing to do with Greg Walker. His name shows up nowhere in the initial post. It doesn't even state a clear debate, but instead merely shows us the facts. You assumed it was another Greg Walker thread because that's what you wanted it to be. Give me a break, Balta. If there's one thing you're right on, it's that yes, you should take these shots--because they're 100% warranted. It took 4 posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 So the fact of the matter is something in our scouting/hitting isn't working, and our management is apparently not going to do anything to fix it. Our hitters are continuously unprepared whenever they face an unknown, and that just isn't acceptable. Something, ANYTHING, has to be changed, and to me, the easiest one to replace is Greg Walker. Like someone said before, if this same pattern emerges with a new coach, then what did we really lose (assuming KW hires someone at least serviceable, which I assume he would)? And, maybe there's a chance it is just our hitters. Maybe we've just got a bunch of guys who don't know how to learn from watching video or reading scouting reports. Maybe all that data is available, and they just don't make anything of it. Maybe they only learn by doing, over and over (could be why we own Verlander; same division, see him many times a year). But its a hell of a lot easier to replace one coach than an entire roster. But I'm just a fan. I want this team to win (yes, it's true, I really do bleed Black and White), and I'm tired of seeing this same thing happen over and over. To me, it's obvious something isn't working, and something needs to be done to fix it. Because sitting here hoping something will just fix itself is not going to be good for this team in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 09:57 PM) It took 4 posts. I don't see anything about Walker until post #9, unless Soxfest edited a Walker comment out. Even so, you dismissed this thread because of one, maybe two, maybe a handful of Greg Walker comments in what is now sixty-five replies. It's almost as if you wanted it to be a Greg Walker thread just so you could flex your 'muscles' and start calling people idiots. Antics like this are incredibly annoying, especially when you throw around words like "ignorant" against posts that were never made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I love how people try to defend Greg Walker. The guy is absolutely worthless, and anyone who tries to ignore this is very ignorant. Who are the good hitting coaches in baseball? Who is a good hitting coach? I mean I wouldn't mind a change but I don't think it would matter a bit. We have a lot of veteran players who do what they do and a lot of young guys who probably have hit the same way all their lives. From what Guillen says, Walker puts in the time, etc. What the f*** is he supposed to do? What hitting coach do you want here? I agree our offense sucks and wouldn't complain if we fired him, but I still don't think it'd matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 It seems to me that the Sox hit right handers that throw good fastballs and have either 1 good pitch after that or an assorted number of mediocre pitches (#3-4 starters/potential starters, middle relievers, mediocre closers) or junk left handers that can throw it 91 MPH with any number of assorted offerings (though they hit them worse than they do the right handers). In essence, what I'm strictly trying to say is that they hit guys that throw anywhere from 92-97 pretty well with mediocre breaking stuff. Is that a generally good statement? Because if it is, then that's why the A's and Jays shut the Sox down on a regular basis...both teams feature guys that either have two plus pitches or have a variety of pitches. There is absolutely a mental issue too, but I'm no psychologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 For the thousands and thousands of fire Greg Walker posts, I have yet to see one that actually names someone as an available better alternative. Firing Walker because some of these line-ups don't score would be like firing whoever is "coaching" defense because Betemit couldn't catch the ball, or firing Cooper because MacDougal couldn't throw a strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristofer Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 05:27 PM) For the thousands and thousands of fire Greg Walker posts, I have yet to see one that actually names someone as an available better alternative. Firing Walker because some of these line-ups don't score would be like firing whoever is "coaching" defense because Betemit couldn't catch the ball, or firing Cooper because MacDougal couldn't throw a strike. the problem is... the whole entire team isn't hitting well. it isn't just one person that is the problem. cooper has a great track record with all his starters, so if his whole staff has an off year, it's completely normal for a regression. this team has had hitting problems since 2005 with 2006 being an anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (kristofer @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 05:30 PM) the problem is... the whole entire team isn't hitting well. it isn't just one person that is the problem. cooper has a great track record with all his starters, so if his whole staff has an off year, it's completely normal for a regression. this team has had hitting problems since 2005 with 2006 being an anomaly. Pods is doing better than expected. Ramirez is coming out of a funk Thome is doing about what can be expected Dye is doing about what can be expected Konerko is hitting about .300 AJP is hitting about .300 Quentin has been hurt Fields has sucked but his average and OBP are about the same as they were when he was supposedly all world Nix is doing better than he did in Colorado Miller hit .205 which is much better than his career avg. Betemit sucked Beckham is incomplete Wise has always sucked Anderson is hitting .260 I think its time people realize this roster may be lacking. They have some good individual parts but the mix is not all that great. None of any White Sox players' struggles, pitchers or position players, can or should be blamed on the coaches. Borrowing a line earlier in this thread, doing so would just be ignorant. Edited June 5, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 What has been even more remarkable has been the lack of "Fire ________" threads going in the direction of Guillen and KW, specifically Kenny. He seems to be insulated from criticism for now, and he's bought himself at least two years (probably more) to really put a competitive team out on the field. It's just frustrating to watch a winnable division possibly slip away, but this might be our least talented team of the decade, coming in a close 2nd to the 2007 squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 05:59 PM) What has been even more remarkable has been the lack of "Fire ________" threads going in the direction of Guillen and KW, specifically Kenny. Must have missed the huge one just a few days ago. It got pretty ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sox close to shut out number 9.... ... awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I wonder if Ozzie will make Bacon the scapegoat. I feel sorry for us fans who have spent a lot of money on tickets to see these games at the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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