Is Sammy a Hall of Famer???

[southsider2k5]

Career marks of .273 average, 2408 hits, 370 doubles, 609 homers, 1667 RBI, .534 SLG, .344 OBP, .878 OPS. 3 seasons of 60+ homers, the only man ever to do that, including 243 homers in a 4 year span. He has never been formally accused of steroids with any evidence, though the accusations have haunted him for years.

 

Is that enough to get him in, or is the cloud of suspicion too great over Sosa to vote him into the Hall of Fame?

[shipps]

On Cub message board I think the majority would say no cause he fell out of favor with them as time passed. On this board we dont even need a poll to know what the results are. Except for the usual suspects that are going to say yes just because they like to be the minority and argue with people.

[Kyyle23]

Its so hard for me to say, but I would lean towards no. During the time that it was percieved that he was not on the juice, he seemed pretty overmatched in the majors(with the Sox, Orioles, and Texas), he had some moments here and there, but nothing groundbreaking. During the time he was (supposedly) on the juice, he was a terror.

[rangercal]

http://www.thecheatershalloffame.com/

[Kyyle23]

I guess I'm in the minority then, because on June 5th, 2009, Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Asdie from being at the steroid hearings on Capitol Hill, he was never linked to the juice. Was he on it? Probably, but untill it has an actual link to him, there really isn't anything to go off of.

 

The numbers he put up during his peak were simply incredible.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up the cork as a reason to keep him out of the hall, I don't see how that is any different than Gaylord Perry being in the HOF after doctoring the baseball every start with his spitball...

 

 

That cash exchange deal in the airport(Toronto?) was a pretty big black eye

[Dick Allen]

Unless there is something that nails him for steroid use, he has to be a first ballot guy. He won't be, and will probably have to wait a while, but you supposedly are innocent until proven guilty in this country, although if you played in the current era, you are quilty until proven innocent. The HOF is loaded with guys who used PED's. Maybe not steroids but other things.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

I think there is going to be a lot of "Is this guy a HOFer" talk in the next 15-20 years. Sammy is just the start.

[Flash Tizzle]

I think there is going to be a lot of "Is this guy a HOFer" talk in the next 15-20 years. Sammy is just the start.

It all changed, in my mind, with Alex Rodriguez. Bonds, Sosa and McGwire are grouped together as steroid/HGH users due to their inflated HR seasons. If no one comparable to those players ever again tested positive they'd never get into the HOF. However, with Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez it has changed. I believe those two, since they still conceivably have several years of good production left, will have an opportunity to make amends for their past actions. If either is still productive for their teams (and this will of course be subjective because what's "productive" for Rodriguez and Ramirez, based upon past years, may still be good overall; but not we're accustomed to) it'll give credence to the belief that both would have been a a HOF player regardless.

 

Once either gets in, that'll open the possibility for others. I believe Sosa will ultimately be a HOF, but he'll have to wait awhile.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[Balta1701]

Esta votación es en Inglés. Hablo español solamente.

[RockRaines]

Unless there is something that nails him for steroid use, he has to be a first ballot guy. He won't be, and will probably have to wait a while, but you supposedly are innocent until proven guilty in this country, although if you played in the current era, you are quilty until proven innocent. The HOF is loaded with guys who used PED's. Maybe not steroids but other things.

Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

[Chisoxfn]

I guess I'm in the minority then, because on June 5th, 2009, Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer. Asdie from being at the steroid hearings on Capitol Hill, he was never linked to the juice. Was he on it? Probably, but untill it has an actual link to him, there really isn't anything to go off of.

 

The numbers he put up during his peak were simply incredible.

 

Oh, and before anyone brings up the cork as a reason to keep him out of the hall, I don't see how that is any different than Gaylord Perry being in the HOF after doctoring the baseball every start with his spitball...

I'm with you Tony.

[Dick Allen]

Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

Listen to Hawk and all the old players talk about corking bats. Its been quite common and they all laugh about it. Personally, I think Sosa juiced, but if they are going to hold suspicion against him instead of proof, I find it very sad. Bonds and Palmiero tested positive. McGwire used creatine and probably steroids, but he didn't hit 600 homers.

[shipps]

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think for a second that he wasnt juicing most of his career. But honestly I could give a s*** if he made it into the Hall. Like you guys said its filled with cheats up and down. And am I the only one that finds Hall of Fame talk extremely uninteresting and boring? With all sports IMO.

[WCSox]

Thats means McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc will all get in, which I dont think will happen. Sosa cheated and got caught with a corked bat, and he is one of the more obvious juicers in the game. I dont think he would get writer's votes, nor the vets.

 

I don't think that the corked bat incident alone means much, but it tells you that he was willing to go to great lengths to cheat. Add that to his (rather obvious) rapid change in physique in the mid-90's and startling change in numbers in the late '90s, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that he was on the juice.

 

IMO, McGwire and Sosa's chances are about equal. Both had very similar careers (great power, mediocre BA, below-average fielders) and both refused to answer questions about steroids before Congress. If Mark doesn't get in, neither will Sammy. And given how the writers have given McGwire the cold shoulder, I don't like Sosa's chances.

 

Palmiero is dead in the water because he was caught red-handed. Bonds had about 400 HRs, 300 SBs, and 3 MVPs before he began roiding in the late '90s (if you believe what has been written about him), and I'd say that his pre-PED accomplishments get him in.

Edited June 5, 2009 by WCSox

[WCSox]

McGwire used creatine and probably steroids, but he didn't hit 600 homers.

 

583 is pretty close to 600, and he also had a higher career OBP and OPS. I'd say that they were roughly equal as hitters.

 

[The Critic]

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think for a second that he wasnt juicing most of his career. But honestly I could give a s*** if he made it into the Hall. Like you guys said its filled with cheats up and down. And am I the only one that finds Hall of Fame talk extremely uninteresting and boring? With all sports IMO.

Halls of Fame = yawn.

The only good thing they offer is the chance to talk about old players, but with all the rumors, accusations, etc., even that's becoming boring.

I find myself becoming less and less interested in any part of sports outside of the actual games.

Stats, records, accolades, none of it means much to me now.....other than message boards, of course....

[RockRaines]

If you ranked hte most obvious beneficiaries of steroids in the steroid era you would probably go:

 

1. Bonds

2. McGuire

3. Sosa

 

 

Thats what will keep him out.

[LittleHurt05]

If you ranked hte most obvious beneficiaries of steroids in the steroid era you would probably go:

 

1. Bonds

2. McGuire

3. Sosa

 

 

Thats what will keep him out.

 

With that list, the difference is that Bonds was easily a hall of famer before he took the juice. without the juice, sosa is nowhere near a hall-of-fame caliber player

[GoodAsGould]

There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

[RockRaines]

There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

The evidence is right in front of your eyes though regardless of if he was stupid enough to get caught. Sosa juiced and he's one of the most obvious cases.

[WCSox]

There isnt as much evidence against Sosa I think to keep him out of the HOF. Even in Canseco's book, he just mentioned its a possibility that Sosa used roids but he didnt have any actual proof to back it up of any sort. I could go either way with Sammy, but I think if not first ballot I would eventually vote him in, while the evidence against Bonds/Mcguire/Palmiero/A-Rod are all too much for me ever to cast a vote their way.

 

The "evidence" against McGwire is basically hearsay in Canseco's book. That's enough for me, as I happen to think that Canseco told the truth in that first book, but it's not anything close to objective or definitive. It's not like he failed a drug test or anything. If McGwire doesn't get in, I don't see how Sosa will.

 

[GoodAsGould]

The evidence is right in front of your eyes though regardless of if he was stupid enough to get caught. Sosa juiced and he's one of the most obvious cases.

 

Someone getting bigger isn't evidence, there are ways to bulk up naturally.... And yes, I do think he most likely used roids of some sorts, but if all my proof is he got bigger that most certainly isn't enough.

[GoodAsGould]

The "evidence" against McGwire is basically hearsay in Canseco's book. That's enough for me, as I happen to think that Canseco told the truth in that first book, but it's not anything close to objective or definitive. It's not like he failed a drug test or anything. If McGwire doesn't get in, I don't see how Sosa will.

 

McGwire isnt on trial to go to jail, this is about getting into the HoF, so whether its hearsay or not, its enough.

[WCSox]

McGwire isnt on trial to go to jail, this is about getting into the HoF, so whether its hearsay or not, its enough.

 

McGwire didn't fail a drug test, either, so I don't know why you're putting him in the same category as Palmiero, Bonds, and A-Rod.

 

And its a moot point anyway, because Canseco is also on the record accusing Sosa of 'roid use...

 

HALPIN: But it took a lot of injections to get him past Roger Maris that summer, breaking the home run record of Roger Maris, of course, who didn't use steroids back in 1961?

 

CANSECO: Saying that, obviously, you know, I truly believe Mark McGwire continued using steroids at that time.

 

HALPIN: So he was using them?

 

CANSECO: I truly believe so, yes.

 

HALPIN: And Sosa, as well?

 

CANSECO: Yes.

 

Link

 

Sosa, 40, also has the unmistakable steroid stench covering him thanks to a firmly pointed finger from Jose Canseco, who has been spot-on with all of his other allegations of stars who needed performance-enhancing drugs to get by.

 

Link

 

Canseco first used steroids as a minor-leaguer in 1984, he says, and began introducing major-leaguers to steroids the following year. Apparently, he never saw Tejada, Sosa or Clemens do steroids.

 

"I started giving him advice about steroids, and he seemed interested in what I was saying," Canseco says of Tejada.

 

On Sosa: "It seemed so obvious, it was a joke."

 

Link

 

Edited June 5, 2009 by WCSox

[GoodAsGould]

From what I have heard, Canseco admitted he has no evidence at all to accuse Sosa of being on roids, while with others he has accused he had direct information or 2nd hand information that he considered reliable. Im sorry, I dont make someone guilty because Canseco thinks he does without any sources or knowledge of seeing it himself.