Present Your Theories Here

[SI1020]

(1) Quentin's hurt

(2) Danks is having an off-year, after all of the extra innings he threw last season

(3) Floyd is back to his inconsistent self

(4) Contreras and Colon are both done

(5) No leadoff hitter with a decent OBP in April (although Pods is hitting well now)

(6) Alexei had a terrible April

(7) Fields appears to have been highly-overrated

 

Thankfully, the rest of the division isn't much better and I don't see why the Sox can't contend. Getting Quentin back and Alexei re-gaining form will help.

I don't disagree with any of your points but I continue to wonder in frustration why the bigger and supposedly stronger pitchers of today are so fragile. I don't accept any of the pat explanations about it either.

[caulfield12]

(1) Quentin's hurt

(2) Danks is having an off-year, after all of the extra innings he threw last season

(3) Floyd is back to his inconsistent self

(4) Contreras and Colon are both done

(5) No leadoff hitter with a decent OBP in April (although Pods is hitting well now)

(6) Alexei had a terrible April

(7) Fields appears to have been highly-overrated

 

Thankfully, the rest of the division isn't much better and I don't see why the Sox can't contend. Getting Quentin back and Alexei re-gaining form will help.

 

 

Fields has to be at 775-850 OPS to be effective...if you look at Crede's numbers, he wasn't really a consistently high OPS producer (maybe high 600's/low 700's on average), but he saved so many runs defensively (when healthy) that it really was like adding another 100-150 OPS points. Of course, there's no way to quantify it, just as there's no way to easily quantify in a satisfactory way the negative affect Fields and Betemit exacted on our pitchers.

 

It's certainly a lot easier to throw a pitch with conviction knowing it will be either caught or at least stopped 95% of the time when it's within range.

 

It's one of the ways the likes of Jose Valentin AND Juan Uribe were undervalued by many fans who looked at their inconsistent offensive numbers. Both players were much more important for the runs they saved defensively (yes, Valentin was a heckuva lot better than Clayton or Cabrera because of his range AND arm, never let error totals alone deceive one).

 

 

 

 

[WCSox]

(yes, Valentin was a heckuva lot better than Clayton or Cabrera because of his range AND arm, never let error totals alone deceive one).

 

I was a big Valentin fan as well. He was an error machine, but you're correct about his range and arm (his 20+ HR power was nice as well). To my recollection, I only remember him costing us one game back in 2000 (the Sirotka/Pedro matchup, where the Red Sox on 1-0 on an unearned run).

 

[caulfield12]

I was a big Valentin fan as well. He was an error machine, but you're correct about his range and arm (his 20+ HR power was nice as well). To my recollection, I only remember him costing us one game back in 2000 (the Sirotka/Pedro matchup, where the Red Sox on 1-0 on an unearned run).

 

 

Which led directly to two of the worst KW moves (in terms of team chemistry) of all time, David Wells/Sirotka and the dreaded Royce Clayton/Aaron Myette trade.

 

Clayton and Mark Johnson would have fit in perfectly with this offense at 8/9. I wouldn't be surprised if Ramirez pulled a hamstring playing CF, it would be a reminder of KW trying (briefly) to move Jose there...a case of a trade that NEVER would have been made if KW would have looked beyond the error totals at some of the other statistical measures (Total Chances, Total Chances Per IP, Zone Rating, Range Factor, etc., etc.)

 

Clayton went on to become a clubhouse cancer (fitting in well with D'Angelo Jimenez) and teaming with Kenny Lofton to really turn Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez to the "dark side" in terms of their clubhouse presence(s).

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I was a big Valentin fan as well. He was an error machine, but you're correct about his range and arm (his 20+ HR power was nice as well). To my recollection, I only remember him costing us one game back in 2000 (the Sirotka/Pedro matchup, where the Red Sox on 1-0 on an unearned run).

It also led to the pitching staff throwing more pitches and more stress on their arms. Eldred, Baldwin, Sirotka, and Parque all were never the same. I'm not blaming Valentin, he was a good player when the Sox acquired him and got a little worse every season, but it certainly didn't help them.

[Harry Chappas]

It also led to the pitching staff throwing more pitches and more stress on their arms. Eldred, Baldwin, Sirotka, and Parque all were never the same. I'm not blaming Valentin, he was a good player when the Sox acquired him and got a little worse every season, but it certainly didn't help them.

 

Without Valentin there is no Eldred

[caulfield12]

It also led to the pitching staff throwing more pitches and more stress on their arms. Eldred, Baldwin, Sirotka, and Parque all were never the same. I'm not blaming Valentin, he was a good player when the Sox acquired him and got a little worse every season, but it certainly didn't help them.

 

 

And every ball that flew through the infield unmolested by Royce (Range of Josh Fields at 3B) Clayton led to additional pitches as well.

 

If you asked any of our pitchers who'd they rather have playing SS everyday, privately, they all would have said Jose Valentin. Not to mention the fact that he was a really smart ballplayer in terms of instincts...we don't even have a baserunner with close to his aptitude on this current Sox team. We just have lots of low baseball IQ players, and that goes back to drafting.

 

We can't blame the injuries to Rauch, Barcelo, Kelly Wunsch, Rocky Biddle, Bobby Howry, Jason Stumm, Danny Wright, Corwin Malone and MANY others on Jose Valentin alone, that would be silly.

 

Eldred had a long history of injury problems before he came to Chicago...

 

 

[Dick Allen]

And every ball that flew through the infield unmolested by Royce (Range of Josh Fields at 3B) Clayton led to additional pitches as well.

 

If you asked any of our pitchers who'd they rather have playing SS everyday, privately, they all would have said Jose Valentin. Not to mention the fact that he was a really smart ballplayer in terms of instincts...we don't even have a baserunner with close to his aptitude on this current Sox team. We just have lots of low baseball IQ players, and that goes back to drafting.

 

We can't blame the injuries to Rauch, Barcelo, Kelly Wunsch, Rocky Biddle, Bobby Howry, Jason Stumm, Danny Wright, Corwin Malone and MANY others on Jose Valentin alone, that would be silly.

 

Eldred had a long history of injury problems before he came to Chicago...

Valentin was back at SS. It didn't help. Royce Clayton wasn't the reason the Sox were mediocre in 2001 and 2002.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Dick Allen

[VAfan]

I posted a thread as to why we are so bad. We have no power on this team. We're on pace for 162 HRs. The only time this decade we were below 200 HRs, it was our only losing season, when we tallied 90 losses.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72061

 

We only have 3 players hitting above league average at their positions -- Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome, and AJ Pierzynski. Quentin is hitting at league average. Everyone else is below, usually WAY BELOW.

 

It has nothing to do with pulling the ball, or not being very good at situational hitting. It has to do with the fact that we are trotting out guys at several positions who are not full-time major league players. And then you add in that Alexei Ramirez has mostly stunk it up too, and you have 5-6 gaping holes in a 9-man lineup.

 

Plus, the 3 guys who are above league average are not hitting all that great. They can't begin to make up for the outs in the rest of the lineup.

 

What's the solution? Kenny needs to trade for some new offense, or we aren't going to be competitive for a few years. Because if you are counting on the guys in AAA now, even if you brought them up today, it wouldn't be until 2011 that you could have any confidence as to how they might hit. I like Beckham and think he can be a fairly quick solution at one position, but that still leaves at least 3-4 holes to fill.

 

[VAfan]

The Sox are 45 runs below the AL average for runs scored, so that's obviously your major problem here.

 

They have a negative Win Probability of -3.48 for their offense, 0.02 for their starters and 1.46 for the pen, a total of -2 altogether.

 

And mainly it's because of a lack of power. Overall the offense has an OPS of .706 which is just abysmal.

 

So when the weather warms up, and the bats get hot, this team will do better.

 

But it's mainly down to 4 guys. Fields, Getz, Anderson/Wise and Ramirez. They all have OPS's below .650, and this team is just not going to be a good team if 4 of your players in your lineup who play half their games in an offensive ballpark are below par offensive players.

 

Ramirez will get above .700 I've got no doubt about. Beckham should if he plays everyday, but b/w Getz, Anderson/Wise and Fields, I'm not so sure about at all.

 

EDIT: And Orlando Hudson a guy who I really wanetd in the off-season has splits of .315/.396/.444 right now for an OPS of .840. He'd look real good in our lineup right now that's for sure.

 

Either 2B or CF MUST be upgraded in the off-season without a doubt.

 

I think your post is about the only one that sees it nearly the same way as I do. My quibble is that I would play Beckham at 2B because Fields might come around at 3B, and if he doesn't, we could rush Viciedo. For CF, see my post on why we should have traded for Nate McLouth. I wouldn't wait for the offseason, though. A couple astute trades right now, plus the return of Quentin and having Ramirez heat up, could actually put us back in the thick of this race. As bad as we've been, we're still in range.

[greg775]

We have station to station, pull only hitters.

 

watch a full day of other teams and you will discover things like sac bunts, hitting the opposite way, and shortened swings.

 

I agree with this. I'm amazed when I watch other teams' righties whack a double down the first base line.

[ChWRoCk2]

Because we f***ing suck!

 

Easy answer.

 

We have many players who don't deserve to be in the majors on our team: Wise, Gobble, Fields, Colon, Whisler and Anderson.

 

Add to the fact our manager never plays the matchups and has some huge mancrush for s***ty players like Lilly and Wise and keeps trotting them out onto the field.

 

The hitting needs to wake up, at the least fire Walker just for the sake of change. No reason our team should hit this bad year in and year out.

 

This is extremely frustrating to watch, good thing I haven't watched much of the Sox this year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That doesn't even begin to register with me. They won the division last year, how is that not a "true contending team?"

 

Any team that wins their division can be classified as a contender, I guess. But even the most optimistic Sox fan knew that team was so not built for October.

[witesoxfan]

Any team that wins their division can be classified as a contender, I guess. But even the most optimistic Sox fan knew that team was so not built for October.

 

Only because Quentin was out. If Quentin is in that lineup, I still think there is a chance. The fact that they remained competitive in all 4 games in the playoffs makes me happier.

[DABearSoX]

josh fields

[caulfield12]

Any team that wins their division can be classified as a contender, I guess. But even the most optimistic Sox fan knew that team was so not built for October.

 

 

They had a chance if their pitching was aligned for the post-season and we didn't have to use Javier Vazquez in the first 3 games.

 

Healthy Quentin, Crede, Linebrink, etc., also would have made a huge difference.

[Steve9347]

We call up the best prospect we've had in a decade and a half and let him ride the pine after a difficult start?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

My theory on why the Sox are Bad:

 

Their "starting 3rd baseman" Fields sucks. Their starting 2nd baseman, Getz sucks. Anderson and Wise suck. Quentin can't stay healthy. That about sums it up.

 

For cryin' out loud, get rid of Fields, get a real third baseman, move Beckham to second base, and get a real centerfielder. And get rid of Wise once and for all.

[Dam8610]

They can't score more than 4 runs. Beckham needs to get his first hit, Danks, Viciedo, Flowers, Allen, and anyone else that might be able to hit better than .250 needs to develop, and the hitters that are going to stay on the team need to learn how to get more than 1 run home with the bases loaded and nobody out.

[flavum]

Lack of talent

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Overconfident GM.

[WCSox]

Overconfident GM.

 

That would be Ron "Our Prospects are Awesome" Schueler.

 

[whitesoxfan101]

This team is bad for the same reason the 2007 team (who the 2009 team will end up with a very similar record to) was bad, lack of talent. It's not that hard a concept to grasp really. Kenny failed us in 2007 and he did again this year, although at least there is some hope for the future now since our farm system is currently much better than it was 2 years ago.

[lostfan]

We call up the best prospect we've had in a decade and a half and let him ride the pine after a difficult start?

Ladies and gentlemen, Ozzie Guillen.

[Paint it Black]

Kenny Williams, I'd like you to meet onbase percentage.