G&T Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) That's the scary thing. If he's going down, he's going down with his veterans. I'd probably feel the same way. Remember he was given a lot of young players who haven't been good (Fields, Getz, Lilly, Owens, BA). Now he has more young guys coming and Beckham hasn't hit. They got Pods, and he's been good. He wants production. But frankly there is a fundamental rift between KW and Oz (I think) going on right now. Ozzie is rapidly becoming Dusty. Can't turn your back on Wise, dude. Meanwhile, KW is looking at getting into position for next year. Even Peavy wasn't about winning now, necessarily. This might only make things worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 personally i think it's a lengthy stretch to hypothesize that there's some rift between ozzie and kw. both are passionate guys who want to win more than anything. when they aren't winning they're both surly. we've seen this before. as far as ozzie's treatment of young players i think he's proven from day one that he is going to treat players one way. he isn't going to have a lot of variance. now you can argue whether or not he should and there's no question i wish he'd ease up on some of his comments, but you take the good with the bad. if a young player is going to be scarred or ruined by his manager's comments to the media then i'm not certain he was going to be worth much any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I've often wondered why some pitchers get a hand when they get taken out in the 5th or 6th inning and have given up 5 runs. I don't know why Ozzie is jealous Beckham is getting a hand for doing nothing. He should be happy for him. Beckham is smart enough to know he's going to have to produce or it will sound like Wise coming to the plate everytime he walks up to it. As far as Wise goes, I really think the only reason he's around is stubborness. I go to a lot of games. I've only booed one White Sox in my life. It wasn't Wise so I really don't understand when he gets booed, but he hasn't produced. I think Ozzie needs to know that people making a lot less money than him pay a lot more money to watch the White Sox play. Seeing Wise flail away at a 58 footeer gets old very quickly. Considering the family of 4 index, the only teams that are more expensive to watch are the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs. White Sox fans deserve a higher quality player in the batter's box. Edited June 10, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I think one of the reasons Wise was up here in the first place was because he played under Buddy Bell, so obviously Buddy would have said some positive things about him, and hence why he got on the roster. But I hope right now at least KW is looking at other options. Someone like Gregor Blanco for instance, since the Braves are in a win now mode it seems by the deals they have been making, especially with them acquiring Nate McLouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 09:44 AM) I've often wondered why some pitchers get a hand when they get taken out in the 5th or 6th inning and have given up 5 runs. I don't know why Ozzie is jealous Beckham is getting a hand for doing nothing. He should be happy for him. Beckham is smart enough to know he's going to have to produce or it will sound like Wise coming to the plate everytime he walks up to it. As far as Wise goes, I really think the only reason he's around is stubborness. I go to a lot of games. I've only booed one White Sox in my life. It wasn't Wise so I really don't understand when he gets booed, but he hasn't produced. I think Ozzie needs to know that people making a lot less money than him pay a lot more money to watch the White Sox play. Seeing Wise flail away at a 58 footeer gets old very quickly. Considering the family of 4 index, the only teams that are more expensive to watch are the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs. White Sox fans deserve a higher quality player in the batter's box. Alright, I'll bite. Who did you boo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jun 11, 2009 -> 12:17 AM) personally i think it's a lengthy stretch to hypothesize that there's some rift between ozzie and kw. both are passionate guys who want to win more than anything. when they aren't winning they're both surly. we've seen this before. as far as ozzie's treatment of young players i think he's proven from day one that he is going to treat players one way. he isn't going to have a lot of variance. now you can argue whether or not he should and there's no question i wish he'd ease up on some of his comments, but you take the good with the bad. if a young player is going to be scarred or ruined by his manager's comments to the media then i'm not certain he was going to be worth much any way. I think this is definitely the biggest test of Ozzie Guillen's career as a manager right now. He's shown that with a good pitching staff and a veteran ballclub, he can win ballgames and he did winning the World Series in 2005. But now the Sox are rebuilding on the fly, and Ozzie has to show that he has enough patience with the young players for them to ride out their slumps at the major league level. Right now, I think many Sox fans are concerned with what he's done based on the likes of BA and Fields. But this team isn't as talented as they have been in the past, and I wonder if KW and Ozzie are both here next season (right now I'd say the chances of that are good), how many veteran ballplayers they will pursue at 2B, 3B and the OF come the off-season when they have some $$$ to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 09:52 AM) Alright, I'll bite. Who did you boo? I've mentioned it before, Jaime Navarro. I don't get too emotional at games anyway, but even when things bother me, I can't bring myself to boo a guy I think is trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) I think this is definitely the biggest test of Ozzie Guillen's career as a manager right now. He's shown that with a good pitching staff and a veteran ballclub, he can win ballgames and he did winning the World Series in 2005. But now the Sox are rebuilding on the fly, and Ozzie has to show that he has enough patience with the young players for them to ride out their slumps at the major league level. Right now, I think many Sox fans are concerned with what he's done based on the likes of BA and Fields. But this team isn't as talented as they have been in the past, and I wonder if KW and Ozzie are both here next season (right now I'd say the chances of that are good), how many veteran ballplayers they will pursue at 2B, 3B and the OF come the off-season when they have some $$$ to spend. i'd agree for the most part. this is a huge challenge for ozzie and it will test him to transition away from a veteran ballclub that understands the big league "way" and a young team that has to learn. his comments the other day about "back in the 80s if you didn't produce you got launched (paraphrasing)" would probably be lost on a young player who wasn't even born in the 80s. i think he can adjust because i believe he's a good manager. of course that does remain to be seen. in terms of ba and fields, i would agree that the ba situation was handled poorly and continues to be. but i don't have sympathy for fields. he was given a great chance this year. they cleared out a veteran, essentially handed him the job, and then stepped back and watched him show the exact flaws we've been talking about since he emerged as a prospect (too many strikeouts, bad defense). it would be nice at if any point and time in the past three years he'd shown the growth you expect out of a guy tabbed as the organization's best prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 09:49 AM) I think one of the reasons Wise was up here in the first place was because he played under Buddy Bell, so obviously Buddy would have said some positive things about him, and hence why he got on the roster. Well he did have a great year in AAA, and up here there was a need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The reports were that Buddy Bell said that Wise could help the team more than Jerry Owens in 2008. That proved true, in my opinion. Wise is no longer competing for a spot with Jerry Owens, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) I've mentioned it before, Jaime Navarro. I don't get too emotional at games anyway, but even when things bother me, I can't bring myself to boo a guy I think is trying. I boo'd him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I want to put it out there, Ozzie is handling Poreda good. He let him know what Poreda needs to do to stick and thats a good thing. If you were going to a new job (in this case the bigs), wouldn't you want to know what is expected of you. I mean, sure, it is relatively obvious that you need to produce, but Ozzie telling Poreda that he's here to help the club win, etc, etc, basically lets him know that a the organization is confident in you (thus they called you up) and b lets you know that you need to make a pretty immediate impact. I'm excited to see Poreda pitch and wish him the best of luck. He's got a great arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 10, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) I want to put it out there, Ozzie is handling Poreda good. He let him know what Poreda needs to do to stick and thats a good thing. If you were going to a new job (in this case the bigs), wouldn't you want to know what is expected of you. I mean, sure, it is relatively obvious that you need to produce, but Ozzie telling Poreda that he's here to help the club win, etc, etc, basically lets him know that a the organization is confident in you (thus they called you up) and b lets you know that you need to make a pretty immediate impact. I'm excited to see Poreda pitch and wish him the best of luck. He's got a great arm. I would hope that Ozzie is being open, honest, and fair with Poreda. THe best thing for a new player, and most players in fact, is to know what is expected of them, for them to be pushed, but also to be encouraged. Hopefully Ozzie did not forget that last part, but I think we can be assured Ozzie is being open and honest with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I just... don't want anybody, least of all the coaches, to be impatient with Poreda if he struggles or hits bumps. Anyone remember the line at the end of Bull Durham where Crash tells Nuke that the hitters in the Show are gonna light him up like a pinball machine at first, and not to let it bother him, keep doing what he's doing? That's what I want to see out of Poreda... except... he needs full support from the team, too. Normally Ozzie is great about that, especially with pitchers (actually only with pitchers, what he does with position players is debatable). Whatever he was trying to say with that quote didn't come off that way IMO. Edited June 10, 2009 by lostfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 You also have to note that to the media, Ozzie is doing his best to actually temper expectations. With Poreda it was him telling what he expected, with Beckham, he basically did everything he could to try to take some of the pressure off the kid. Look at Ozzie's track record. I can think of one, maybe two players that were you that didn't get playing time when they might have deserved it. McCarthy and Brian Anderson. Anderson has never really hit so that might not really be a bad thing and by most peoples account he wasn't mature enough to handle the show. Garland was still young when Ozzie took over and he pitched at his best with Ozzie as his manager. Danks and Floyd are another two young pitchers who developed nicely under Ozzie. Bobby Jenks came up in the heat of a penant race, Ozzie shielded him from the pressure early and than as he produced he earned that bigger role and was our stud reliever during that magical post-season. Getz hasn't really been jerked around, Alexei and Quentin both developed. Someone might point out that Quentin wasn't supposed initially start the season, but you know what, he got his at bats. Really our only legitimate grief is at the way CF has been handled and that more or less also falls heavily on the GM who never gave the Sox a legitimate guy to use (Wise/BA/Owens...none our starting Cfers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I think he is handling Getz fine, lately I think Nix playing has more to do with Ozzie feeling Nix should get more playing time than it has anything to do with taking at-bats away from Getz. I don't mind it so much, Nix is fantastic in the field and fun to watch, I just wish he could hit. He's never been given a legit shot in the show. I don't know why some fans are turning on Getz all of a sudden though. That's pretty annoying too, IMO. Getz isn't the 2B of the future and never was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 "Aaron Poreda This is the biggest day of my life... I'm goin to Chicago, the big leagues, and I ain't never goin back!!!!!" Well... it's nice to see Aaron still has the same cockiness (Ya Aaron I'm calling it cockiness not confidence!! ) as he did in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 QUOTE (Sox1422 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 06:13 AM) Good. Now bring up Danks and Viciedo for Wise and Fields. I am with you man. Show the door to all this proven bombs. It time to play the kids to see what they can do and gain experience to see if we can win it all in three years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Poreda is representing more then just the White Sox. "Poreda said he had extra motivation before he struck out slugger and fellow Jewish player Ryan Braun. "I actually thought about that when he was coming up, the battle of the Jews,” Poreda laughed. “But he's a great player, amazing, and I was just trying to do my best.” http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-1...0,4760306.story Edited June 14, 2009 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Clash of the Titans meets Battle of the Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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