A MESSAGE TO THE SOXTALK COMMUNITY

[knightni]

The whole point of this thread is to not turn posters into Stepford Wives; it's to make people realize that their actions affect others and can have consequences.

 

This is a board with membership that is by invitation only and it is a privilege to post here, not a right.

 

• If you are a poster who only shows up to Soxtalk and posts in game threads when the Sox lose.
• If you get more joy when you try to tell people "I told you so!", than when the Sox win.
• If your posts ramble, are nonsensical, and bring others down.
• If your discussions consist of posting things with no factual basis behind them, or things that show a lack of pre-post research on your part (i.e. talking out of your backside).
• If you lash out in insults when people try to correct you.
• If you do not have the ability to share insight and discussion in a civil manner here without getting upset and making a personal attack.

 

 

You are the poster who we are trying to warn with this thread.

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

The whole point of this thread is to not turn posters into Stepford Wives; it's to make people realize that their actions affect others and can have consequences.

 

This is a board with membership that is by invitation only and it is a privilege to post here, not a right.

 

• If you are a poster who only shows up to Soxtalk and posts in game threads when the Sox lose.
• If you get more joy when you try to tell people "I told you so!", than when the Sox win.
• If your posts ramble, are nonsensical, and bring others down.
• If your discussions consist of posting things with no factual basis behind them, or things that show a lack of pre-post research on your part (i.e. talking out of your backside).
• If you lash out in insults when people try to correct you.
• If you do not have the ability to share insight and discussion in a civil manner here without getting upset and making a personal attack.

 

 

You are the poster who we are trying to warn with this thread.

 

Question about the bold. I get where you're coming from. But who is anybody to question or even care if a certain poster only shows up in loser threads, or is a certain poster gets joy from being right, even if them being right only hurts the team? That's something that shouldn't be policed, IMO. I agree 100% with the non-bolded.

 

[knightni]

Say you had a movie theater. . .

 

Certainly, anyone who is over 17 can see whatever movie that they wish.

 

However, some movie-goers, choose to regularly bring young children into the theater or use their cellphones during the films and disrupt others who are trying to enjoy themselves.

 

Certainly, they are allowed to bring the children and phones in, but those things have caused you to lose many good customers over time because of their noise and the lack of respect that they show.

 

I wonder, would you advise people to turn off their phones and take their children to the lobby when they act up?

 

 

It is your right as the theater owner to police your theater and decide who should be asked to leave. . .correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Say you had a movie theater. . .

 

Certainly, anyone who is over 17 can see whatever movie that they wish.

 

However, some movie-goers, choose to regularly bring young children into the theater or use their cellphones during the films and disrupt others who are trying to enjoy themselves.

 

Certainly, they are allowed to bring the children and phones in, but those things have caused you to lose many good customers over time because of their noise and the lack of respect that they show.

 

I wonder, would you advise people to turn off their phones and take their children to the lobby when they act up?

 

 

It is your right as the theater owner to police your theater and decide who should be asked to leave. . .correct?

 

I understand the analogy. And it's a pretty good analogy by the way. But as Tizzle stated earlier...are people that damn sensitive that they would let the negativity of a poster/posters effect them to the point that they would just stop posting? Isn't that what the ignore button is for? And if they see a thread where it's obvious that it's going to be a big cryfest, why enter it? I don't know. I've been posting here since 2003. I've seen this board at it's best and worst. But I've never thought to myself "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE! I'M NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN!"

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't know why it just cant be simple. Here's my proposal -- whenever an administrator or moderator comes across an overly negative post, delete it. You know what this consists of. Whenever someone comes across a personal attack, delete it, and then warn the person of the action in a PM. It just seems to me knight this whole rule change goes FAR beyond negativity and personal attacks. You've basically identified Fathom and Caufield as two posters you dont want around, when really, what they do (which you have problems with, obviously) is rare.

 

I do have several problems with your bullet points, Knight:

 

If you are a poster who only shows up to Soxtalk and posts in game threads when the Sox lose.

 

Ridiculous. Are you going to keep track of every poster and how often they post within the threads? You may as well come out and say you're targeting certain members. What does it matter if someone does this? If they come into the gameday threads only when the Sox lose, and have legitimate posts (not just reactionary ones), does it really affect your posting experience here on Soxtalk?

If you get more joy when you try to tell people "I told you so!", than when the Sox win.

This isn't really an example of negativity or a personal attack. How do you know they get joy out of saying "I told you so?" It's annoying to do something like this, sure, but I don't see how the overall tone of the board is affected. It's not an epidemic of posters doing this.

 

If your discussions consist of posting things with no factual basis behind them, or things that show a lack of pre-post research on your part (i.e. talking out of your backside).

Wow, this rule would effectively kill our website quicker than even the most negative person. Again, this is only a fan website. Let's not look at it as more than that.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Flash Tizzle

[knightni]

I'm giving examples. This is not the "rule of law."

[santo=dorf]

If you don't want people saying "I told you so," then don't have predictions threads or allow people to say "Mark my words......"

[lostfan]

I think you guys are taking what knight is saying too literally here. He's not saying that a poster that does one or more of those things a couple of times will be banned. He's saying that if you're a poster that comes to this board and just dumps whatever garbage thoughts you have on your mind without bothering to try and be constructive (and you can be negative and constructive at the same time, and most posters do, there's nothing inherently wrong with being negative), then frankly, you're not really wanted. All that does is bring down the quality of the board, and nobody wants to read all that. And no, there is no particular poster being singled out here.

[Molto]

While I don't post, this is the first time since Jason and myself started this board that I've had no interest in reading the palehose talk forum. We're talking 7-8 years here, where the Sox have had some rough rides. Knighni's analogy was spot on, and lostfan is right as well that you're taking the bullet points way too literally. There is nothing wrong with being negative, or posting in losing threads 2% more than winning threads. Or saying you're right, but there is a limit to everything. Professional baseball is not everything. It isn't life. At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure the players aren't as ticked off as some of the posters here.

[YASNY]

I read the first page of this thread and believed I had read enough to where I can opine. As I read PHT, in general, by the time I reach the end of a thread I have usually rolled my eyes several times and just flat believe that there is no need, nor do I have desire to comment on the garbage that I read. It gets pretty disgusting at times. I have gone from someone that was a very active PHT poster to someone rarely bothers anymore, even though I read it fairly regularly. The degeneration of Soxtalk post quality has been ongoing for quite some time. This is not, and I repeat not, just a result of the team's poor play this season. The Sox won the division championship last year, but the amount of vitriol was still over the top all season long. A little restraint, decorum, politeness and thoughtfulness can go a long way.

[NorthSideSox72]

I read the first page of this thread and believed I had read enough to where I can opine. As I read PHT, in general, by the time I reach the end of a thread I have usually rolled my eyes several times and just flat believe that there is no need, nor do I have desire to comment on the garbage that I read. It gets pretty disgusting at times. I have gone from someone that was a very active PHT poster to someone rarely bothers anymore, even though I read it fairly regularly. The degeneration of Soxtalk post quality has been ongoing for quite some time. This is not, and I repeat not, just a result of the team's poor play this season. The Sox won the division championship last year, but the amount of vitriol was still over the top all season long. A little restraint, decorum, politeness and thoughtfulness can go a long way.

This post is spot on, and the last sentence really covers what we are looking for.

 

[The Critic]

I'd wait until he saved me, then boo him.

I'd tell him that Aaron Rowand would have saved me better.

 

FWIW, put me in the camp of "personal attacks bad, negativity good (or at least acceptable)". I don't want to see over-modding of the site. That would bland things up in a hurry.

In almost any thread, you can skim over the "bad posts" and find a lot of good points and interesting discussion/debate. I don't think we necessarily need to eliminate the more negative (or even the relatively pointless) posts in order to find or highlight the "better" ones. A lot of times the non-sequiturs save a thread for me by giving me something to laugh about.

 

I like WSI (even when they can get a little stiff for my liking), but I don't need two WSI's.

[SI1020]

FWIW, put me in the camp of "personal attacks bad, negativity good (or at least acceptable)". I don't want to see over-modding of the site. That would bland things up in a hurry.

In almost any thread, you can skim over the "bad posts" and find a lot of good points and interesting discussion/debate. I don't think we necessarily need to eliminate the more negative (or even the relatively pointless) posts in order to find or highlight the "better" ones. A lot of times the non-sequiturs save a thread for me by giving me something to laugh about.

 

I like WSI (even when they can get a little stiff for my liking), but I don't need two WSI's.

I pretty much agree with this post. I would hate to see the pack mentality that exists at WSI take hold here. I've been at ST since the days of soxnet with some long absences in the interim. This site has survived worse turbulence in the past. It's really impressive how the site has grown from its modest beginnings.

[NorthSideSox72]

For anyone really worried about this... we will not become WSI. We are not even thinking of some of the overly strict restrictions they have on that site, and we do not want a pack mentality. Be negative if you want to, no one here is going to label you a dark cloud. Just follow that last sentence from YASNY's post, and you will be fine (and, the board will be better for it, for all of us).

 

[SI1020]

I'm as opinionated a person you would ever hope to meet. That being said, if I cross a line just let me know. I didn't come here, or should I say back here, to spread ill will. I would just like to have my say while remaining cyber friendly.

[southsider2k5]

For anyone really worried about this... we will not become WSI. We are not even thinking of some of the overly strict restrictions they have on that site, and we do not want a pack mentality. Be negative if you want to, no one here is going to label you a dark cloud. Just follow that last sentence from YASNY's post, and you will be fine (and, the board will be better for it, for all of us).

 

Thank you. Soxtalk has been around for almost 6 years now, and nothing we have done resembles WSI. It is disrespectful of the job that they admins and mods have done here to mention WSI everytime that having some decency and standards gets mentioned here. I have full faith that we can have a better posting enviorment without being like that. It amazes me that people who have been here for a long time don't believe in the people who bring this site to you enough to think that this would turn into WSI.

[lostfan]

Finding ways to repeat the same opinion in a thread at length in 3-4 different threads/topics in the course of a day, regardless of whether it is related to the topic is pretty obnoxious too. You're pretty much just begging to be ignored.

[Chisoxfn]

The comparison to WSI should end by the fact we are leaving this topic open to discuss, like we always have. I think everyone knows that I'm not as active on the day to day modding an admining as I used to be and thankfully we've had a wonderful number of posters step up and take those roles and they've done a hell of a job doing it.

 

The key is that we receive messages from good long-term posters, we look at things ourselves, and flat out realize that some things need to change. Am I talking about a massive lists of posts you can or can't make, absolutely not. I'm talking about common sense, thats it....common sense.

 

We aren't talking about banning 100 posters or anything ridiculous like that. We are putting something out ther to make people aware that we see a growing issue at Soxtalk and believe it needs to be nipped in the butt and unfortunately the issue has been compounded by really terrible Sox play.

 

Have you seen me make one positive post about the current major league squad in a while? No, did you see me ban or warn myself, absolutely not, why, because as far as I'm concerned the vast majority of my posts involve some sort of logical answer and discussion point as to why I feel the way I do (whether I'm right or wrong, who the hell knows).

 

Please don't take what we are saying 1000% literally, just listen to what some of us long-time admins are trying to say and I think when you read the things, you'll pretty much agree 1000000% with what we are saying. It really is a matter of keeping the filth out of a place.

 

That said, I get into game threads some days and people are cussing out Konerko or Danks or whomever because they do one thing wrong or have a bad night. Its absolutely f***ing ridiuclous to do that. This is a sport where people fail more than they succeed and I don't need to see one poster make that post because than another 10 or 15 chime in. And that my friends is the true pack mentality and it is completely unacceptable.

 

If a guy has a track-record of poor performance (see Josh Fields) than go right ahead. Or if a guy can't execute and get a bunt (something that shouldn't have a high failure rate) than again, it is okay. But say something more like Damn it Josh, learn to execute than, Josh you f***ing suck at life or yada yada yada.

 

I also want to say we are very appreciative of everyones comments and I want to ensure people that have these worries of us preventing negative topics or anything should not be worried cause I guarantee I'll start a few trade discussions over the next few weeks, possibly involving some long-time Sox players, why, because I don't believe in the current nucleus. Bottom line we still are as open of a large site as you'll find on the web and it is you the posters that enable us to have that sort of attitude (as we really have such a tremendous group of posters here).

 

And Flash, Fathom is one of my favorite posters on Soxtalk.

[SI1020]

Thank you. Soxtalk has been around for almost 6 years now, and nothing we have done resembles WSI. It is disrespectful of the job that they admins and mods have done here to mention WSI everytime that having some decency and standards gets mentioned here. I have full faith that we can have a better posting enviorment without being like that. It amazes me that people who have been here for a long time don't believe in the people who bring this site to you enough to think that this would turn into WSI.

Looking at the entirety of the thread I've got to believe you had me in mind when you posted this. Maybe not just me, but I get the point and can easily remedy the problem.

 

[knightni]

Looking at the entirety of the thread I've got to believe you had me in mind when you posted this. Maybe not just me, but I get the point and can easily remedy the problem.

I don't believe that it was aimed at you entirely.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Looking at the entirety of the thread I've got to believe you had me in mind when you posted this. Maybe not just me, but I get the point and can easily remedy the problem.

 

It wasn't aimed at anyone person. It was a general statement of frustration that has been because of a long history of being compared to WSI everytime we try to fix on-going problems. To be honest, you haven't posted a lot, so you wouldn't even be in my mind to think of.

[YASNY]

It wasn't aimed at anyone person. It was a general statement of frustration that has been because of a long history of being compared to WSI everytime we try to fix on-going problems. To be honest, you haven't posted a lot, so you wouldn't even be in my mind to think of.

 

I think the phrase "general statement of frustration" sums up my feelings quite well.

[Soxbadger]

It was aimed at me.

 

I hate everyone.

 

ROAR

 

And personally ive been on this site for a while, some times I post a lot more than others, but strangely I usually do my most posting in the lean times. There have always been negative posters, I just feel like after 2005 the mentality of Sox fans some what changed.

 

Before then it seemed that even when there was negativity it was always had optimistic undertones. Now its just always doom and gloom, which is strange because the Sox are spending more and winning more. Maybe its with great expectations come great responsibilities and fans expectations have risen. For me Ill always remember what it used to be, when we had $60mil payrolls and were trying to come up with creative solutions to compete.

 

Thats just my opinion on the situation.

 

Not that its really coherent.

[SoxAce]

I hate everyone.

 

ROAR

 

No badge. It's ARRRRGH!

[fathom]

And Flash, Fathom is one of my favorite posters on Soxtalk.

 

Ah thanks! I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but as a known pessimist, there's a lot that can be learned. There's a way to articulate your thoughts so that they're not a personal attack on a player, and rather more of an observation. Something that I have tried to do more of and will continue to do is make a comment so that it opens up for further discussion. Saying "Ozzie is pathetic" isn't quality posting and myself and others should improve upon that. As long as people follow the rules, I've not seen anyone get suspended/banned for stating any opinion regarding the team (and that's what separates this site from WSI). I tell this to numerous mods/admins, and that is that if they have a problem with my style of posting, please PM me and I'll be happy to do whatever I can to improve the quality of the posts.

 

I would also add the quality of conversation in the chats is better than that of the game threads, as there's some great baseball people in there (kyyle, daa, flash, SSI, etc.).