Healthcare reform

[Cknolls]

Yeah, the problem is when the government gets involved it will be the third option. An even bigger tax bill.

 

 

Oh come on, surely you jest, they keep telling us it won't cost a penny.

 

 

Are you fired up ...ready to go....fired up ....ready to go....GMAFB... Preaching to the choir... Shouldn't these union workers be WORKING, oh wait, they probably are working while listening to ther sermon.

[EvilMonkey]

Also, every bill being considered at this point has the public option as budget neutral, so it wouldn't add to taxes. They're supposed to be self-sufficient on premiums and deductibles.

You must not have read very many pages back before deciding to post. Note the highlighted part, and then guess just how likely that is to happen.

[kapkomet]

When someone skips out on an ER bill, which is pretty common because an uninsured person pays 2.5 the rate an insured person would, the cost is placed on the taxpayer. By providing insurance, that cost would be lowered, because 1) they would be charged the insured rate, and 2) there is less incentive to skip out on the bill.

 

Also, every bill being considered at this point has the public option as budget neutral, so it wouldn't add to taxes. They're supposed to be self-sufficient on premiums and deductibles.

Do you have a clue what that means?

 

Oh wait, you mean this plan's not free? We have to pay for it? WHAT? SERIESLY?!?

[kapkomet]

Oh come on, surely you jest, they keep telling us it won't cost a penny.

 

 

Are you fired up ...ready to go....fired up ....ready to go....GMAFB... Preaching to the choir... Shouldn't these union workers be WORKING, oh wait, they probably are working while listening to ther sermon.

I LOL'd when I heard that clip. This is the most intelligent, articulate man we've ever had in office of the president. LMAO. He's a cheer-monkey. And I'm not talking about the racial monkey before that crap starts.

[bmags]

I feel like we're going in circles.

[lostfan]

It's because we are. There's nothing else to say. I haven't said anything substantive in a while because it's already been said at least twice.

[NorthSideSox72]

I feel like we're going in circles.

Yeah, I keep thinking there is something worthwhile to discuss on the matter, but it seems like we've been over everything already. I'll stick with the NSS Plan^tm.

 

[bmags]

Have we thought about how much it will suck when health care reform herds us into internment camps and gases us all to death? That might have been unexplored.

[lostfan]

Have we thought about how much it will suck when health care reform herds us into internment camps and gases us all to death? That might have been unexplored.

Hey if you want to have kids make sure you do it in Brazil or before the laws take effect because I heard Obama wants mandatory castration of all white people.

[Disco72]

Yeah, I keep thinking there is something worthwhile to discuss on the matter, but it seems like we've been over everything already. I'll stick with the NSS Plan^tm.

 

Perhaps an amendment to the NSS Plan^tm that includes a slightly different incentive system for doctors? This is one idea that came up in the thread in the last 24-48 hours that is interesting. An incentive system that still encourages people to join the medical field but doesn't encourage extra tests for extra income plus malpractice / tort reform is something that could make a sizeable difference in health care costs.

[Disco72]

Hey if you want to have kids make sure you do it in Brazil or before the laws take effect because I heard Obama wants mandatory castration of all white people.

 

Good thing my wife has my balls in her purse, they'll be safe there... wait, did I just say that out loud???

[Texsox]

So why is it that there is no spare capacity anywhere?

 

What are you basing that on? I see spare capacity all over the place. One easy thing, how many Doctors are advertising? Why advertise if you have no capacity? Also, if there is money to fund expansion, don't you think companies will expand? Another idea, since we are making some major changes, let's build into a new system more P.A.s and R.N. care clinics.

 

There will be a growth curve, and some growing pains, but Americans have always found ways to ramp up and get the job done. That's how we won WW2 and it is how we will win this.

[bmags]

Hey if you want to have kids make sure you do it in Brazil or before the laws take effect because I heard Obama wants mandatory castration of all white people.

 

let's not scare the s*** out of me, k. Sex gets girls pregnant?

[lostfan]

let's not scare the s*** out of me, k. Sex gets girls pregnant?

Yeah and sometimes you can have funny stuff happen to your no-no spot if she is not clean.

[kapkomet]

Because our system is designed in a way such that everyone makes more money the more they do. The more procedures a doctor orders, the more money they make. You guys like capitalism, you ought to understand that concept; if you make more money by ordering more care, you're going to order more care for people.

 

The British, IIRC, do something different. If you pay doctors on salary, even if they're making really, really good salaries, then you remove the economic incentive where it benefits a doctor to overtreat.

 

This points back directly to that test-case in El Paso TX we talked about a few times, where in McAllen TX, the doctors were ordering vastly more care for the same amount of tests as the city next door and were getting worse health care outcomes.

I would also like to call bulls*** for every one of you people who keep saying "more tests, the more they get paid". That's wrong. Flat out wrong. They diagnose, they get paid a contractual amount per that diagnosis. Period. No more, no less. Then they refer the people to get tests done. The labs who perform the tests then get paid via a pre-agreed contractual obligation. Period. No more, no less. Still, defensive medicine AS A WHOLE does cost money. It's something that captures a lot of procedures and doctors. With all that said, "the doctors were ordering vastly more care for the same amount of tests" is a fallacy dictated by payor mix, contractual obligations, and a different structure - and "worse health care outcomes" is also a fallacy. The whole thing is a sham to make you think that you're on the road to health care hell when it's simply not the case.

 

As a matter of fact, doctor's offices are "incentivized" to see as many people as they can - you want to kill the system, put them on salary and put a "quality standard" (aka how much they have to treat) and watch what happens. The incentives to do anything just went out the window, and that includes emergency care, IMO.

Edited September 16, 2009 by kapkomet

[Rex Kickass]

I would also like to call bulls*** for every one of you people who keep saying "more tests, the more they get paid". That's wrong. Flat out wrong. They diagnose, they get paid a contractual amount per that diagnosis. Period. No more, no less. Then they refer the people to get tests done. The labs who perform the tests then get paid via a pre-agreed contractual obligation. Period. No more, no less. Still, defensive medicine AS A WHOLE does cost money. It's something that captures a lot of procedures and doctors. With all that said, "the doctors were ordering vastly more care for the same amount of tests" is a fallacy dictated by payor mix, contractual obligations, and a different structure - and "worse health care outcomes" is also a fallacy. The whole thing is a sham to make you think that you're on the road to health care hell when it's simply not the case.

So individual doctors aren't making more money, but don't many medical centers perform their own phlebotomy and testing procedures? So wouldn't bundling in extra tests and such mean more money for the corporation owning the center where a doctor works?

 

If that's true, is the solution prohibiting vertical integration and tort reform?

[kapkomet]

So individual doctors aren't making more money, but don't many medical centers perform their own phlebotomy and testing procedures? So wouldn't bundling in extra tests and such mean more money for the corporation owning the center where a doctor works?

 

If that's true, is the solution prohibiting vertical integration and tort reform?

It depends... a lot of lab work is actually outsourced. There's arguements both ways. But the point of "testing so the doctors make more" is a fallacy, which is my point.

[Texsox]

Eureka! I have developed the X-ray machine!

What's that?

We can make an image of your bones without opening you up!

Whaaaaat? What is thaaaat gonna cost!!?? We take one of these expensive X-rays and what is nothing is broken? What a waste of money.

Yeah, I guess it was a dumb idea.

 

You know, just wondering when medical tests became a waste of money. There is a small chance, one in a thousand, this is some scary ass thing that could kill you. Fortunately, we developed a test that could detect it before it can kill your ass. Waste of money?

[kapkomet]

Eureka! I have developed the X-ray machine!

What's that?

We can make an image of your bones without opening you up!

Whaaaaat? What is thaaaat gonna cost!!?? We take one of these expensive X-rays and what is nothing is broken? What a waste of money.

Yeah, I guess it was a dumb idea.

 

You know, just wondering when medical tests became a waste of money. There is a small chance, one in a thousand, this is some scary ass thing that could kill you. Fortunately, we developed a test that could detect it before it can kill your ass. Waste of money?

Nope, but it is according to the "outline" proposed by our president.

 

[Balta1701]

Nope, but it is according to the "outline" proposed by our president.

B.S.

 

The obvious Kaperbolic response is "And according to Kap, poor people shouldn't get them."

[southsider2k5]

B.S.

 

The obvious Kaperbolic response is "And according to Kap, poor people shouldn't get them."

 

More like, a few people shouldn't be forced to pay for the entire world's health care system.

[kapkomet]

That, and, poor people CAN get them now and in fact DO get them. But keep burying your head in the sand on that point.

 

AGAIN, no one is saying REAL reform shouldn't be done, but any road to government takeover of the insurance or health care profession should flat out be rejected. But no one wants to talk REAL reform, because all the drones have already set in motion the biggest boondoggle in American history. And no, no Kaperbole ™ here.

[chunk23]

What reform would you propose should be done?

[EvilMonkey]

What reform would you propose should be done?

Go back several pages, NSS actually laid out his suggestions which weren't that bad Certainly better than any pile of crap either side has come up with so far. I just don't understand why they can't fix things piecemeal instead of risking the whole game on one play. Fix Medicare first. prove you can do that. Then you have more cashe to get other changes done. And so on.

[Rex Kickass]

That, and, poor people CAN get them now and in fact DO get them. But keep burying your head in the sand on that point.

 

AGAIN, no one is saying REAL reform shouldn't be done, but any road to government takeover of the insurance or health care profession should flat out be rejected. But no one wants to talk REAL reform, because all the drones have already set in motion the biggest boondoggle in American history. And no, no Kaperbole ™ here.

 

And you pay for those people to get them in the form of higher medical bills.