Healthcare reform

[Rex Kickass]

The Democrats run the Senate. If they cared about the troops so much, they could have slotted time for that bill, but they want to shift the blame. It won't work.

 

Actually they did. And they withdrew the amendment in mid-read so they could get the appropriation through. The single payer amendment doesn't have close to 50 votes, let alone 60 votes anyway - so the reading of the amendment was pure political theater - and a delaying tactic "by any means necessary." Because it doesn't matter how watered down the bill is, the GOP recognizes that passing the bill turns a burden into a boon for the Democrats next year.

 

Fortunately, for them - and frankly for the country at large, Sanders no longer supports the bill because it forces taxpayers to take a private insurance program that is basically broken. So we're back to 59 votes now. Hopefully enough liberals will fail to support the bill to cloture as it stands so we can get back to a good bill and force it through with reconciliation and get the 57 votes it would receive. With the medicare buy-in, its nearly all applicable to reconciliation now.

[KipWellsFan]

Actually they did. And they withdrew the amendment in mid-read so they could get the appropriation through. The single payer amendment doesn't have close to 50 votes, let alone 60 votes anyway - so the reading of the amendment was pure political theater - and a delaying tactic "by any means necessary." Because it doesn't matter how watered down the bill is, the GOP recognizes that passing the bill turns a burden into a boon for the Democrats next year.

 

Fortunately, for them - and frankly for the country at large, Sanders no longer supports the bill because it forces taxpayers to take a private insurance program that is basically broken. So we're back to 59 votes now. Hopefully enough liberals will fail to support the bill to cloture as it stands so we can get back to a good bill and force it through with reconciliation and get the 57 votes it would receive. With the medicare buy-in, its nearly all applicable to reconciliation now.

 

Am I right in figuring that if the Democrats get this through, their election argument is the "Republicans want to take away reform," "they want to go back," and "if given the opportunity they'll take away medicare and medicaid too."

 

[Rex Kickass]

It's a good message for the Dems. There is still a lot of good in this bill, if the private insurance mandate is removed. I think the exchanges alone are a huge step forward.

 

I think if they remove the private insurance mandate, they get 60 votes again.

[kapkomet]

All this is posturing is much ado about nothing. It's going to pass and no one can stop it. Which is the way it was going to be starting November 22. They all have to feign this preposterous outrage so that they can get thier pet s*** put in the bill. Meh. It's a suck bill, they will do what it takes to get that original 60 to pass and get everything they want back in for reconciliation.

[DukeNukeEm]

All this is posturing is much ado about nothing. It's going to pass and no one can stop it. Which is the way it was going to be starting November 22. They all have to feign this preposterous outrage so that they can get thier pet s*** put in the bill. Meh. It's a suck bill, they will do what it takes to get that original 60 to pass and get everything they want back in for reconciliation.

Why are you always so convinced of an ulterior motive? Do you really think 100 people sat down and worked out this crazy plan where 41 of them were going to vote against the bill and 59 of them would vote for it. So then in an effort to secure all necessary votes a bunch of senators would get fat paychecks for their constituents. But, for how incredibly complicated a plan like that is and how organized/intelligent those 100 people would need to be, they write a terrible healthcare bill for yucks just to say they passed something so they can all get reelected.

 

I think the US Senate are much better at their jobs than people give them credit for (especially individually), but I can assure you that body doesn't work well together on anything... much less a crazy tinfoil hat plan like what you're suggesting.

Edited December 17, 2009 by DukeNukeEm

[DukeNukeEm]

This is the same contradiction you see when people badmouth the UN. Often (in the same breath) you'll hear how ineffectual and silly the UN is, while at the same time being the collaborative work of the most diabolically brilliant minds on the planet. It doesn't make sense.

[kapkomet]

Why are you always so convinced of an ulterior motive? Do you really think 100 people sat down and worked out this crazy plan where 41 of them were going to vote against the bill and 59 of them would vote for it. So then in an effort to secure all necessary votes a bunch of senators would get fat paychecks for their constituents. But, for how incredibly complicated a plan like that is and how organized/intelligent those 100 people would need to be, they write a terrible healthcare bill for yucks just to say they passed something so they can all get reelected.

 

I think the US Senate are much better at their jobs than people give them credit for (especially individually), but I can assure you that body doesn't work well together on anything... much less a crazy tinfoil hat plan like what you're suggesting.

You only have to look at the history of this bill to see that whenever one even threatens to hold out, the lines start burning asking what they want or need. "We have to get this passed no matter what" - and anyone who needs anything - who even hesitates - are going to get whatever they want out of this. It's pretty simple, actually.

[Y2HH]

Why are you always so convinced of an ulterior motive? Do you really think 100 people sat down and worked out this crazy plan where 41 of them were going to vote against the bill and 59 of them would vote for it. So then in an effort to secure all necessary votes a bunch of senators would get fat paychecks for their constituents. But, for how incredibly complicated a plan like that is and how organized/intelligent those 100 people would need to be, they write a terrible healthcare bill for yucks just to say they passed something so they can all get reelected.

 

I think the US Senate are much better at their jobs than people give them credit for (especially individually), but I can assure you that body doesn't work well together on anything... much less a crazy tinfoil hat plan like what you're suggesting.

 

Votes in the house and senate are often bought at the 11th hour after a simple phone call or backstage chat -- a promise made in return for said vote.

 

So yes, it does work that way. I know because I'm not only politically active and go to such parties, but I'm also personal friends with a current congressmen...I see how these things go down. It's not that 100 people sit down together and write out some devious plan...it's that they KNOW the current amount of votes they have vs the amount they need -- they then look at those who they think they can 'turn'.

 

Funny that they know they have 59 votes without Lieberman, right? No...they KNOW exactly who they have and where they have them...now to get that other vote, who can they possibly convince (aka BUY off) in exchange? Also, how important is this bill to them? It may be very important to the president, but it may not be very important to EVERY democrat that has to vote for it.

 

That's how the business of politics works.

[southsider2k5]

Why are you always so convinced of an ulterior motive? Do you really think 100 people sat down and worked out this crazy plan where 41 of them were going to vote against the bill and 59 of them would vote for it. So then in an effort to secure all necessary votes a bunch of senators would get fat paychecks for their constituents. But, for how incredibly complicated a plan like that is and how organized/intelligent those 100 people would need to be, they write a terrible healthcare bill for yucks just to say they passed something so they can all get reelected.

 

I think the US Senate are much better at their jobs than people give them credit for (especially individually), but I can assure you that body doesn't work well together on anything... much less a crazy tinfoil hat plan like what you're suggesting.

 

Why are you always playing the role of the contrarian?

 

 

[Cknolls]

It's a good message for the Dems. There is still a lot of good in this bill, if the private insurance mandate is removed. I think the exchanges alone are a huge step forward.

 

I think if they remove the private insurance mandate, they get 60 votes again.

 

 

Please do share what is in this bill. Since Reid is the only one who knows, you have piqued my curiosity. Share with the class.

[Cknolls]

Actually they did. And they withdrew the amendment in mid-read so they could get the appropriation through. The single payer amendment doesn't have close to 50 votes, let alone 60 votes anyway - so the reading of the amendment was pure political theater - and a delaying tactic "by any means necessary." Because it doesn't matter how watered down the bill is, the GOP recognizes that passing the bill turns a burden into a boon for the Democrats next year.

 

Fortunately, for them - and frankly for the country at large, Sanders no longer supports the bill because it forces taxpayers to take a private insurance program that is basically broken. So we're back to 59 votes now. Hopefully enough liberals will fail to support the bill to cloture as it stands so we can get back to a good bill and force it through with reconciliation and get the 57 votes it would receive. With the medicare buy-in, its nearly all applicable to reconciliation now.

 

 

And word is they, DEMS, broke the rules when pulling the motion from the floor.

 

http://spectator.org/blog/2009/12/16/senat...s-dems-violated

[lostfan]

lol I really don't ever want to hear about how so and so broke the rules, the Republicans abused the hell out of the rules when they were in the majority, they'd either make unprecedented changes to blatantly work only for them or they'd just outright ignore them. Fact is, when you are in the minority life sucks for you, that's just how it is.

[lostfan]

Why are you always playing the role of the contrarian?

How is he being a contrarian, what he said is more or less true

[DukeNukeEm]

Votes in the house and senate are often bought at the 11th hour after a simple phone call or backstage chat -- a promise made in return for said vote.

 

So yes, it does work that way. I know because I'm not only politically active and go to such parties, but I'm also personal friends with a current congressmen...I see how these things go down. It's not that 100 people sit down together and write out some devious plan...it's that they KNOW the current amount of votes they have vs the amount they need -- they then look at those who they think they can 'turn'.

 

Funny that they know they have 59 votes without Lieberman, right? No...they KNOW exactly who they have and where they have them...now to get that other vote, who can they possibly convince (aka BUY off) in exchange? Also, how important is this bill to them? It may be very important to the president, but it may not be very important to EVERY democrat that has to vote for it.

 

That's how the business of politics works.

Lieberman cant be bought off. He's secured all this publicity now for being against the bill that if he switched sides now it would anger all the people who now support him. If he takes a bunch of money he's going to change his vote that support would vanish, and it wouldn't be enough to reconcile all the people who are livid at him for being such a weasel. Unless he's a kamikaze mission with no regard to his seat, he's pretty much locked in now.

 

Sanders cant be bought either, but that's because Sanders is a badass senator who just doesn't give a f***.

Edited December 17, 2009 by DukeNukeEm

[Cknolls]

lol I really don't ever want to hear about how so and so broke the rules, the Republicans abused the hell out of the rules when they were in the majority, they'd either make unprecedented changes to blatantly work only for them or they'd just outright ignore them. Fact is, when you are in the minority life sucks for you, that's just how it is.

 

I'm sure you will provide examples. And what about the supposed threat of closure of Offutt AFB in NE. That has "rat" Emanuel wriiten all over it. Not to mention it is probably the 2nd or 3rd most important AFB. But this is all politics.

[JorgeFabregas]

I'm sure you will provide examples. And what about the supposed threat of closure of Offutt AFB in NE. That has "rat" Emanuel wriiten all over it. Not to mention it is probably the 2nd or 3rd most important AFB. But this is all politics.

So you are upset that the United States Senate--the highest legislative body in land--did not spend 12 hours reading 700 pages of an amendment that wasn't going to pass? Are you sure you're upset about that?

[kapkomet]

I'm sure you will provide examples. And what about the supposed threat of closure of Offutt AFB in NE. That has "rat" Emanuel wriiten all over it. Not to mention it is probably the 2nd or 3rd most important AFB. But this is all politics.

And the hospital that under the new laws would basically not be allowed to practice. He'll make sure that project is exempt as well. There's all sorts of buying and weaseling bulls*** going on, but it's all for this grand utopia of "better care, cheaper costs" that cannot exist the way tha the law is written.

[lostfan]

I'm sure you will provide examples.

Not really, I mean that's like trying to prove the sky is blue. Congressional leadership plays games ALL THE TIME, it's not really even worth getting all pissed off about.

[NorthSideSox72]

2,418 posts in the Health Care Reform thread. Have we ever had a non-catch-all thread that had this many posts in the Buster?

 

[Y2HH]

2,418 posts in the Health Care Reform thread. Have we ever had a non-catch-all thread that had this many posts in the Buster?

 

2,401 of them are you.

[lostfan]

2,401 of them are you.

Says the guy with the 3rd most posts in the thread, lol

[Balta1701]

Kap's ahead of me? H. Christ, that's what moving and AGU will do to your post count.

[Y2HH]

Says the guy with the 3rd most posts in the thread, lol

 

Have I reminded you today that you remain my mortal enemy and someday we will have to fight to the death on the astral plane?

[lostfan]

Have I reminded you today that you remain my mortal enemy and someday we will have to fight to the death on the astral plane?

I would be okay with this if I knew what an astral plane was.

[kapkomet]

Kap's ahead of me? H. Christ, that's what moving and AGU will do to your post count.

Best post of the thread right there.