Healthcare reform

[kapkomet]

my job.

 

Okay, let me explain a couple of things to you. And it's not "anecdotal", it's fact.

 

In 2011, it is VERY likely you will see the amount the health insurance costs reported as income. This does two things.

 

1) Of course, your reportable wages just went up. You will now pay to the government what used to be paid to insurance companies.

 

2) Because you just had an increase of taxable wages, a s***load of people are going to creep up in brackets and you'll have to pay even more in taxes. Most people are going to go from 10% (oh, wait, 15%, because ALL brackets go up, not just the "rich" like people want to say...) to the 28% bracket (yea, because the 25% bracket is completely eliminated).

 

3) They ain't fixing the AMT anymore after this year. And health care is going to knock a lot of people into that situation - oh wait, unless you go with their plans. DING DING DING... there's the plan, right there. The government just took over your health care.

 

So, in summary, the government just stole a s***load more money from a s***load more people. They just reduced money in the private sector yet again.

 

Those "subsidies"? You have to meet about 6,235,346 requirements to even SNIFF the subsidies because the way the law was written.

 

And I haven't even gotten into the sucker punch of employer plans. They won't exist in three years (at most five), because they can't.

 

:::

 

On another point, for all of the talk about "bending the cost curves", it's simple to do. SO simple. Reduce medicare rates. Who controls that? Oh, the government. Har.

 

Doctor offices usually charge 200% of medicare rates as usual and customary. That's how the rates are determined, so the government sets the rates anyway. Reimbusement is then negotiated between carriers and insurance comanies, but not anymore, because the insurance companies cannot negotiate new rates without going through the government now.

 

:::

 

And you wonder why I keep saying it *IS* government run health care without the words government run health care written in the bill. It's because it is.

Edited June 12, 2010 by kapkomet

[Balta1701]

In 2011, it is VERY likely you will see the amount the health insurance costs reported as income. This does two things.

Funny, because this was John McCain's explicit campaign proposal for how the Republicans would reform health care if they won in 2008.

[kapkomet]

Funny, because this was John McCain's explicit campaign proposal for how the Republicans would reform health care if they won in 2008.

 

 

Funny, I don't give a s***. That's not the point, now is it? You always want to deflect back to something that's not relevant.

[Balta1701]

Funny, I don't give a s***. That's not the point, now is it? You always want to deflect back to something that's not relevant.

I think the point is pretty obvious. When John McCain proposes it and debates on it and keeps going with it for months, you have no problem with it. When Obama doesn't even include it in his health care proposal, you decide it sounds like a great way to smear him since it was a horrible idea when McCain proposed it, so you decide to declare that we should all trust you, it'll wind up in the law and it'll be awful.

[kapkomet]

I think the point is pretty obvious. When John McCain proposes it and debates on it and keeps going with it for months, you have no problem with it. When Obama doesn't even include it in his health care proposal, you decide it sounds like a great way to smear him since it was a horrible idea when McCain proposed it, so you decide to declare that we should all trust you, it'll wind up in the law and it'll be awful.

 

I had no problem with it? Really? Show me where I endorsed John McCain. That, and immigration, were two of the biggest reasons I had to wear rubber gloves when I voted. John McCain would have never gotten that through, but that's something that I doubt you'll understand.

[EvilMonkey]

Okay, let me explain a couple of things to you. And it's not "anecdotal", it's fact.

 

In 2011, it is VERY likely you will see the amount the health insurance costs reported as income. This does two things.

 

1) Of course, your reportable wages just went up. You will now pay to the government what used to be paid to insurance companies.

 

2) Because you just had an increase of taxable wages, a s***load of people are going to creep up in brackets and you'll have to pay even more in taxes. Most people are going to go from 10% (oh, wait, 15%, because ALL brackets go up, not just the "rich" like people want to say...) to the 28% bracket (yea, because the 25% bracket is completely eliminated).

 

3) They ain't fixing the AMT anymore after this year. And health care is going to knock a lot of people into that situation - oh wait, unless you go with their plans. DING DING DING... there's the plan, right there. The government just took over your health care.

 

So, in summary, the government just stole a s***load more money from a s***load more people. They just reduced money in the private sector yet again.

 

Those "subsidies"? You have to meet about 6,235,346 requirements to even SNIFF the subsidies because the way the law was written.

 

And I haven't even gotten into the sucker punch of employer plans. They won't exist in three years (at most five), because they can't.

 

:::

 

On another point, for all of the talk about "bending the cost curves", it's simple to do. SO simple. Reduce medicare rates. Who controls that? Oh, the government. Har.

 

Doctor offices usually charge 200% of medicare rates as usual and customary. That's how the rates are determined, so the government sets the rates anyway. Reimbusement is then negotiated between carriers and insurance comanies, but not anymore, because the insurance companies cannot negotiate new rates without going through the government now.

 

:::

 

And you wonder why I keep saying it *IS* government run health care without the words government run health care written in the bill. It's because it is.

You forgot the part where he bends to the unions, who own most of the so-called 'Caddilac plans' and exempts them from paying the taxes of their plans.

[Balta1701]

You forgot the part where he bends to the unions, who own most of the so-called 'Caddilac plans' and exempts them from paying the taxes of their plans.

For about a year.

[kapkomet]

For about a year.

 

Wrong, again. 2018-2019.

[Balta1701]

Wrong, again. 2018-2019.

But the Excise tax doesn't kick in for anyone until 2016-2017.

[kapkomet]

But the Excise tax doesn't kick in for anyone until 2016-2017.

 

 

Which part? Gee, isn't that a problem? How many different new taxes are kicking in as a result of this?

 

At least 4, and probably more that we don't know about yet.

[Balta1701]

Which part? Gee, isn't that a problem? How many different new taxes are kicking in as a result of this?

 

At least 4, and probably more that we don't know about yet.

No, that's not a problem. The whole bloody point is to bend the long term cost curve long term.

 

And more that we don't know about yet? Yeah, because reading = tough

[kapkomet]

No, that's not a problem. The whole bloody point is to bend the long term cost curve long term.

 

And more that we don't know about yet? Yeah, because reading = tough

 

And you're out of your mind if you think that this is going to "bend the long term cost curve long term" - oh wait, you mean make it more expensive... Got it. It's already been disproven many, many times based on the current legislation.

 

Which, to that point, we don't know everything yet, because they keep attaching riders to modify the original pased bill. Funny how that gets missed. They keep changing the tax/subsidies/funding. Shocker, I know.

[Balta1701]

And you're out of your mind if you think that this is going to "bend the long term cost curve long term" - oh wait, you mean make it more expensive... Got it. It's already been disproven many, many times based on the current legislation.

 

Which, to that point, we don't know everything yet, because they keep attaching riders to modify the original pased bill. Funny how that gets missed. They keep changing the tax/subsidies/funding. Shocker, I know.

Disproven...by every study that the tea party puts out.

 

If I cited stuff a hundredth the quality of your crap I'd get laughed out of here.

[StrangeSox]

kap can never be wrong on this issue. He can just keep claiming that, at some point in the future, they're going to implement whatever he's on about, you'll see!

[kapkomet]

You just want "free" health care. Whatever.

[Y2HH]

Disproven...by every study that the tea party puts out.

 

If I cited stuff a hundredth the quality of your crap I'd get laughed out of here.

 

1) I'm back. Again.

 

2) The bill will make Healthcare more expensive as written, as nothing was done to curb doctors/hospitals from raising fees and no rules were placed on them as to what they can/must do and/or can/must accept as payment. I warned people about this from the start, I was ignored, and it turns out...I was right. It's already beginning...

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...-medicare_N.htm

 

But wait...Doctors and hospitals can just choose to not accept Medicare?! Ohhh no! What ever will we do?!

 

[sNIP]

WASHINGTON — The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.

 

This is why Medicare is so "cheap"...they just don't, you know...pay. Well, Doctors are fleeing from it in record droves now...congratulations, you've fixed everything!

 

It's like in the movie Casino -- when Nikki wins, he collects...when he loses, he just doesn't pay -- I mean, what are they gonna do to Nikki?!

[Balta1701]

Now here's the amazing thing though...that's exactly what should happen if you start imposing competitive pricing on a previously uncompetitive, monopolistic system.

 

A bunch of doctors try to flee medicare because Medicare is the only place enforcing cost controls. Suddenly, after they flee medicare, they discover there aren't enough available patients paying the prices they want to keep their practice running. So either they are forced to increase the efficiency of their operations (i.e. lower costs) to bring in more customers that way, or they're forced back into accepting Medicare clients to help meet their expenses.

 

The only way that such things could be avoided is if we were willing to spend an infinite amount on health care. But as far as I can tell, we're not. Therefore, there has to be some level of competition introduced into the system.

[Y2HH]

Now here's the amazing thing though...that's exactly what should happen if you start imposing competitive pricing on a previously uncompetitive, monopolistic system.

 

A bunch of doctors try to flee medicare because Medicare is the only place enforcing cost controls. Suddenly, after they flee medicare, they discover there aren't enough available patients paying the prices they want to keep their practice running. So either they are forced to increase the efficiency of their operations (i.e. lower costs) to bring in more customers that way, or they're forced back into accepting Medicare clients to help meet their expenses.

 

The only way that such things could be avoided is if we were willing to spend an infinite amount on health care. But as far as I can tell, we're not. Therefore, there has to be some level of competition introduced into the system.

 

Ok, stop right there.

 

Medicare isn't "enforcing cost controls", they simply are 1) not paying or 2) underpaying promised payments.

 

Calling that "cost control" is an insult.

[Balta1701]

Ok, stop right there.

 

Medicare isn't "enforcing cost controls", they simply are 1) not paying or 2) underpaying promised payments.

 

Calling that "cost control" is an insult.

Oh so wait, you're referring to the Republicans blocking of the yearly Medicare payment fix?

[Y2HH]

Oh so wait, you're referring to the Republicans blocking of the yearly Medicare payment fix?

 

Right, because this isn't what Medicare has done all along -- oh wait, they have. That's why it's "cost controls" work so well...they just don't pay and/or underpay. That's great business, this won't eventually fall apart on us or anything...oops, wait again...yes it will, and it is.

 

And to fix it all?! Just increase the amount of funding every year...and if we can't blame those damned Republicans for blocking it!

 

I thought this was supposed to make it all cheaper?! Sounds to me like nothings changed at all. Now let's blame the Republicans, right?

 

It gets old, Balta, to hear you blame Republicans about everything...the Obama administration had and currently *** HAS *** a bigger majority in the senate/congress than anyone in history, and they all seemed to get things done despite not having such majorities. Seriously, move on from the blame Bush and the Republicans game, it's unbecoming now...you had a year for that, and the game is up.

[Balta1701]

Nice to see you going off on a rant without paying any attention to the actual bill under discussion or how things change under the ACA.

[Y2HH]

Nice to see you going off on a rant without paying any attention to the actual bill under discussion or how things change under the ACA.

 

Whatever is the only valid response at this point.

 

There is no talking to you.

[bmags]

ahh, so the bill sucks because it has no cost controls but you hate the program with cost controls, makes sense. I'm going to go jump out this window but also stay right here and not do that.

[jasonxctf]

i know, rather than guessing or reading crazy forecasts/theories about the new law....

 

 

we just sit tight for 10 years and see what actually happens. Then fix what may not be working well.

 

[kapkomet]

How about actually fixing what matters. Oh, wait, we can't rape the system for tax revenues and redistribution of wealth dollars if we do that.