Healthcare reform

[kapkomet]

So he lied when he said we are going to change the Wash. works? He said he would not sign a bill that was not deficit neutral. This bill starts collecting taxes in 2010-11 and does not start spending until 2014. 1o years of spending puts this bill at 1.8-2.5 trillion in cost. No way is this deficit neutral.

 

 

And on a side note, why did this NEED to get passed before Christmas?

 

 

There has never been a piece of legislation ram rodded through like this one. Oh what the hell, its only 16-17% of our economy.

 

 

Keep up the good work guys.

 

Another thing, when the give the wash to the unions by exempting them from the cadillac plan tax, how do we make for that lost revenue?

 

They had to have this done so he can get his 20 minutes of applause when he stands up there for the state of the union - IIIIII-Bama strikes again. Then, he can talk about deficit reduction the rest of the speech. Which, of course, is the most hypocrticial thing ever.

[Balta1701]

There has never been a piece of legislation ram rodded through like this one. Oh what the hell, its only 16-17% of our economy.

The 10 months of debate since the Stimulus plan passed and the entire 2008 Presidential Campaign, of course, don't count. Ramrod!

[kapkomet]

The 10 months of debate since the Stimulus plan passed and the entire 2008 Presidential Campaign, of course, don't count. Ramrod!

 

 

There hasn't been. All nighters and Christmas Eve all so that an arrogant President can get a 20 minute applause line. If this didn't get passed, what would his SOTU speech even be about?

[Balta1701]

There hasn't been. All nighters and Christmas Eve all so that an arrogant President can get a 20 minute applause line. If this didn't get passed, what would his SOTU speech even be about?

There hasn't been 10 months of straight discussion on Healthcare reform? Hell, this thread alone has been running for 6 1/2!

[southsider2k5]

Great, all of our jobs are coming back from China then

 

Unless we are willing to pay multiples higher for basic stuff, those jobs are never coming back here. Think of the US job market as the world equivalent of a Chicago trade show.

[lostfan]

Unless we are willing to pay multiples higher for basic stuff, those jobs are never coming back here.

i was being sarcastic, thats been my point all along. We lose jobs to China because of labor costs, not because of some mythical undefined concept of "government" or semantic tax-rate arguments. Unless we wanted to become paid like Chinese workers that isn't going to change, but we blame politicians for this seemingly every day.

Edited December 23, 2009 by lostfan

[Balta1701]

i was being sarcastic, thats been my point all along. We lose jobs to China because of labor costs, not because of some mythical undefined concept of "government" or semantic tax-rate arguments. Unless we wanted to become paid like Chinese workers that isn't going to change, but we blame politicians for this seemingly every day.

But let's also note that there's a serious imbalance there...the labor costs issue should in normal times have begun to correct itself by the value of the Yuan increasing relative to the U.S. dollar given the size of the global trade deficit. The Chinese government is actively making sure that doesn't happen.

[lostfan]

But let's also note that there's a serious imbalance there...the labor costs issue should in normal times have begun to correct itself by the value of the Yuan increasing relative to the U.S. dollar given the size of the global trade deficit. The Chinese government is actively making sure that doesn't happen.

Also true... but also things that don't have anything to do with how big our government may or may not be. We could have a 1870-sized government and with the same factors at work we'd still be getting our asses kicked.

[Balta1701]

Also true... but also things that don't have anything to do with how big our government may or may not be. We could have a 1870-sized government and with the same factors at work we'd still be getting our asses kicked.

Agreed that it's off the subject, it's just an important detail when we talk about other countries taking manufacturing jobs.

[Y2HH]

But let's also note that there's a serious imbalance there...the labor costs issue should in normal times have begun to correct itself by the value of the Yuan increasing relative to the U.S. dollar given the size of the global trade deficit. The Chinese government is actively making sure that doesn't happen.

 

A Christmas Miracle!

 

I actually agree with Balta.

 

Somewhere in the world, Kap just felt a disturbance in the force.

[Balta1701]

Somewhere in the world, Kap just felt a disturbance in the force.

"I feel something terrible has happened"

[Rex Kickass]

So what seemed like a disaster for the Democrats is quickly becoming a disaster for the GOP instead.

 

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/the-repu...th-care-blunder

 

Evan Bayh! When you've turned the somnolent, relentlessly centrist Indiana Senator into a raging partisan, you've really done something. The Republicans eschewed a halfway compromise and put all their chips on an all or nothing campaign to defeat health care and Obama's presidency. It was an audacious gamble. They lost. In the end, they'll walk away with nothing. The Republicans may gain some more seats in 2010 by their total obstruction, but the substantive policy defeat they've been dealt will last for decades.

 

And I lost a lot of respect for Lindsey Graham yesterday. Never a huge fan policy wise, but in the last two days, he's saying that South Carolina will have to spend too much money on medicaid expansion because "South Carolina has a 31% African American population."

 

Here's the exact quote from the Senate floor.

 

We're on our knees. 12 percent of our people are unemployed and 31 percent of our people are black.

 

I'm not saying Graham is a racist, but this damn near looks like someone trying to play the race card in a GOP effort to absolutely throw the kitchen sink to stop a bill they can't stop.

[lostfan]

I think I know what he's trying to say but it's pretty hard to word that any worse than he did.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Nice reporting by MSNBC - Did Obama Campaign on the Public Option... no

Some liberals are upset with this statement President Obama made to the Washington Post: "I didn't campaign on the public option."

......

As we've written before, the words "public option" didn't appear in any Obama campaign speech we can remember; they didn't come up during the debates; and they didn't surface in TV ads. Remember when Obama and Hillary Clinton dominated the MSNBC debate with Brian Williams and Tim Russert with 16 minutes of health-care discussion, the words "public option" were never uttered.

 

It is true that a public plan was part of Obama's health-care plan, and it's also true that the public option was an idea being debated in policy-wonk circles during the campaign.

 

But, from our vantage point as reporters who covered the presidential campaign, Obama's quote to the Washington Post appears to be correct.

 

And here's Huffington Post's Sam Stein's take: "An examination of approximately 200 newspaper articles from the campaign, as well as debate transcripts and public speeches shows that Obama spoke remarkably infrequently about creating a government-run insurance program. Indeed, when he initially outlined his health care proposals during a speech before the University of Iowa on March 29, 2007, he described setting up a system that resembles the current Senate compromise - in which private insurers would operate in a non-profit entity that was regulated heavily by a government entity."

[bmags]

I think I know what he's trying to say but it's pretty hard to word that any worse than he did.

 

In addition to his argument (which was about medicaid), more white people are on medicaid in S.C. than black people.

[bmags]

Nice reporting by MSNBC - Did Obama Campaign on the Public Option... no

 

That's great, but at campaign stops, he did talk about it, in addition to saying he supported it.

[southsider2k5]

Nice reporting by MSNBC - Did Obama Campaign on the Public Option... no

 

It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

[southsider2k5]

But let's also note that there's a serious imbalance there...the labor costs issue should in normal times have begun to correct itself by the value of the Yuan increasing relative to the U.S. dollar given the size of the global trade deficit. The Chinese government is actively making sure that doesn't happen.

 

The best part of it, is that they have built themselves a house of cards based on the value of the US dollar. They are the ultimate bubble economy on this planet right now. It is not a matter of if, but when. Throw in the ginormous public dependancy on their government, and the incredible amount of ineffeciency they get out of it, and you are primed for something worse than the Soviet collapse when all of the juggling balls fall. Right now they are keeping afloat on the hard currency that comes in from the US, but IMO if these recession is anything but quick, China as we know it disappears into chaos.

[NorthSideSox72]

The best part of it, is that they have built themselves a house of cards based on the value of the US dollar. They are the ultimate bubble economy on this planet right now. It is not a matter of if, but when. Throw in the ginormous public dependancy on their government, and the incredible amount of ineffeciency they get out of it, and you are primed for something worse than the Soviet collapse when all of the juggling balls fall. Right now they are keeping afloat on the hard currency that comes in from the US, but IMO if these recession is anything but quick, China as we know it disappears into chaos.

Massive growth continues in manufacturing outsourced to China, as well as tech areas, and their population is still booming. Those things will assure that any fall won't be nearly as bad as the USSR one you describe. I agree they are in for a fall though.

 

[Cknolls]

There have been many pieces of legislation rodded through like this one.

 

Also, plenty of people being mandated are going to be healthy and young, that is in fact profitable.

 

 

Like?

 

1/6th of the economy.

 

Nice try....

[Cknolls]

I've seen you post in here for years, providing your advice on the markets. I've seen you suggesting shorting everything under the sun, but I don't think I've ever seen you suggest going long in anything, ever.

 

Just thought that was interesting.

 

 

I have been out of equities long term since october 2007. That is not to say I have not bought anything over the last two years, because I have. We, as a trading firm have been long gold for 5 years. I think I may have said something a few months ago about buying gold. I may be wrong though.

 

My main premise is that this bubble is unlike any before it, and will take longer to recover from than any before. I still believe we will see a large move down in the next 1-3 months that should test the june highs around 945-950 S&P. The mkt is so over extended here on NO volume it is ridiculous. What would be even better for my thesis is for the mkt to run up in Jan. and make a new high, i.e. trade above the 2009 high, and then reverse HARD to the previously mentioned level. And I will still hold out for new lows below the 666 S&P low from March.

[Cknolls]

Unless we are willing to pay multiples higher for basic stuff, those jobs are never coming back here. Think of the US job market as the world equivalent of a Chicago trade show.

 

 

Nice!!!

[bmags]

Like?

 

1/6th of the economy.

 

Nice try....

 

Are you familiar with how medicare was passed? Social Security? Were you around for them? Many agendas that have affected the country's government, business sector and people have been passed much faster than what will effectively be 3 congressional sessions, and that's if you don't count the debate that ensued during the Presidential election, or the debate 40 years before that. For instance, the patriot act passed in a single congressional session, in fact it passed in about a month. The debate has been long and varied, and has ended up at this bill. Yes, there are reasons to try and finish up legislation before a session ends, especially since apparently the senate can only work on one item at a time, they still need to tackle all the bills that have passed the house.

 

And if you are wondering why this has to be done now, for one it's because a lot of these issues have been punted on for 20 years, and it's time they be addressed.

[Balta1701]

Massive growth continues in manufacturing outsourced to China, as well as tech areas, and their population is still booming. Those things will assure that any fall won't be nearly as bad as the USSR one you describe. I agree they are in for a fall though.

But...there's one big issue that can come back there...if there's even a moderate economic contraction...how does the government survive?

[bmags]

Easy: oppression.