Healthcare reform

[Y2HH]

You can't just blame that on poor people. Rich people take advantage in other areas (i.e., taxes).

 

That's also true.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

You can't just blame that on poor people. Rich people take advantage in other areas (i.e., taxes).

 

I didnt. I said "in our country", which applies to everyone across every spectrum in life, including the rich and the poor.

[lostfan]

Look I just wanna make clear I understand some people just get f***ed over and really need help and support. I fully support helping them if they need help in any way. I just feel it should not be easy to receive free support. IMO, there are a lot of people in this country, and mostly in our generation, who would rather do the minimum because they can get away with it and will be helped rather than do extra to get ahead or be on their own.

 

And although it doesn't go with your post I do believe minors should have some sort of funded healthcare.

I 100% understand and mostly agree with the conservative idea of "look at yourself first" so I don't disagree with you. I don't interpret that completely literally though and I realize it doesn't always work for everyone, so that's why there should be some sort of safety net. I don't advocate universal healthcare but I think it's time to do something.

[Y2HH]

I'd be absolutley thrilled if that was an option for my family. No insurer will allow us to do that because of pre-existing conditions.

 

Yea, pre-existing cases are rough -- I think it's one of those times the government should do something -- but there needs to be definite limits as to what power they have/do not have. It's a very complicated, and it will undoubtedly be a very expensive thing to fix considering how deeply rooted it's become in modern America.

[southsider2k5]

You can't just blame that on poor people. Rich people take advantage in other areas (i.e., taxes).

 

How do rich people take advantage in taxes, when they are the ones paying the VAST majority of them?

[Y2HH]

How do rich people take advantage in taxes, when they are the ones paying the VAST majority of them?

 

Some do, most don't. Offshore accounts, having two homes, one in which they live outside the country for a longer period of time than they live in it, things like that help them skate around a lot of tax laws and significantly lowers their tax rates in some cases.

[southsider2k5]

Some do, most don't. Offshore accounts, having two homes, one in which they live outside the country for a longer period of time than they live in it, things like that help them skate around a lot of tax laws and significantly lowers their tax rates in some cases.

 

Statistically, that is a load of s***.

[Y2HH]

Statistically, that is a load of s***.

 

That may be true, but it does happen, even if in rare cases. I pay my fair share of taxes now, and if federal goes lower, state goes higher, etc...it's a revolving circus, in the end, I always end up with less, they always end up with more -- yet they're still in deficit spending. That's life. And for the record, I do realize the rich pay the vast majority of taxes.

[Texsox]

How do rich people take advantage in taxes, when they are the ones paying the VAST majority of them?

 

I'll probably agree with you, but at what point are you determining someone is "rich". I always thought it was the "middle class" that paid the most actual dollars, not percentage. Based on sheer numbers of middle class Americans.

[Texsox]

I'd be absolutley thrilled if that was an option for my family. No insurer will allow us to do that because of pre-existing conditions.

 

In 2005, without any restricting pre-existing conditions, I was paying $550 per month. $2,500 per person deductible, $7,500 family. No pharmacy coverage. If I was making $12 per hour ($24,000 per year) more than 25% of my pay would have gone to insurance. Then if someone actually needed to see a Doctor, that would have pushed it even higher.

 

Most policies today, for a family are a couple weeks pay for people close to minimum wage.

 

And we have not even discussed the public health benefits with a healthier population. Many of the uninsured are the very people who prepare our food. Wouldn't you rather have the food handlers getting regular health care?

[StrangeSox]

I'll probably agree with you, but at what point are you determining someone is "rich". I always thought it was the "middle class" that paid the most actual dollars, not percentage. Based on sheer numbers of middle class Americans.

 

The top 20% pays something like 75% of the total taxes. They also control about 50% of the income.

 

http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

 

 

[Cknolls]

So the Dems are floating an idea that would tax insurance benefits, with Obama's blessing, but, they would exclude UNION EMPLOYEES. WTF? Talk about a payoff. IMO this will never pass.

[NorthSideSox72]

So the Dems are floating an idea that would tax insurance benefits, with Obama's blessing, but, they would exclude UNION EMPLOYEES. WTF? Talk about a payoff. IMO this will never pass.

I'm looking around at articles on the health care bill right now, and not seeing this. I would highly doubt they would do this. What is your source?

 

And if you are right that it is being proposed, you are also right in that it would never pass.

 

[kapkomet]

I'm looking around at articles on the health care bill right now, and not seeing this. I would highly doubt they would do this. What is your source?

 

And if you are right that it is being proposed, you are also right in that it would never pass.

This has been the rumor all along, my bet is this is a trial balloon to see how much flack they will get.

 

Also, if this health plan is the BEST THERE IS, then why are senators, representatives, and the president exempt from it? If they legislate this healing pile of s*** on us, they need to live in the same health care system.

[StrangeSox]

I'm looking around at articles on the health care bill right now, and not seeing this. I would highly doubt they would do this. What is your source?

 

And if you are right that it is being proposed, you are also right in that it would never pass.

 

It's an idea that's been brought up in discussion supposedly.

 

It's already written in stone according to conservative blogs.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics...3-48810402.html

[NorthSideSox72]

This has been the rumor all along, my bet is this is a trial balloon to see how much flack they will get.

 

Also, if this health plan is the BEST THERE IS, then why are senators, representatives, and the president exempt from it? If they legislate this healing pile of s*** on us, they need to live in the same health care system.

 

 

It's an idea that's been brought up in discussion supposedly.

 

It's already written in stone according to conservative blogs.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics...3-48810402.html

 

Rumors, huh? Well, whatever, a few people in Congress may favor the idea, but no way it gets passed, or even out of committee I'd guess.

 

[Balta1701]

This has been the rumor all along, my bet is this is a trial balloon to see how much flack they will get.

 

Also, if this health plan is the BEST THERE IS, then why are senators, representatives, and the president exempt from it? If they legislate this healing pile of s*** on us, they need to live in the same health care system.

So...since the legislators and President already have a publicly funded health care system paid for by the taxpayer, I take it you're advocating a taxpayer funded public health care system?

[Y2HH]

So...since the legislators and President already have a publicly funded health care system paid for by the taxpayer, I take it you're advocating a taxpayer funded public health care system?

 

Only their publicly funded system isn't what you will be getting, so let's not make it sound like it is.

[BearSox]

This has been the rumor all along, my bet is this is a trial balloon to see how much flack they will get.

 

Also, if this health plan is the BEST THERE IS, then why are senators, representatives, and the president exempt from it? If they legislate this healing pile of s*** on us, they need to live in the same health care system.

I'm really beginning to think the plan is to have a total economic collapse so the progressives can reshape the foundation of America.

 

Look at all this crap: billions of dollars we don't have spent on stimulus packages that haven't worked, about to pass a cap and trade tax which won't help the environment but raise our energy prices by a ridiculous amount, will soon be getting socialized health care, the government is taking over GM and the banks, etc., etc., etc.

 

This is beyond ridiculous.

[Baines3]

Obama's health care plan will never get through congress. I would be very surprised if it did.

[BearSox]

Obama's health care plan will never get through congress. I would be very surprised if it did.

 

The senate would be the only ones to stop it because the house is filled with what seems to brain dead idiots who do whatever their party tells them to do.

[lostfan]

The senate would be the only ones to stop it because the house is filled with what seems to brain dead idiots who do whatever their party tells them to do.

Goes for Democrats and Republicans. There are very few representatives I actually like. The House Dems are acting exactly like the House GOP did when they were in control.

Edited June 26, 2009 by lostfan

[BearSox]

Goes for Democrats and Republicans. There are very few representatives I actually like. The House Dems are acting exactly like the House GOP did when they were in control.

I'm thinking they should just get rid of the party system. It's becoming almost pointless. It's almost like you have no choice because everyone's the same.

[Y2HH]

I'm thinking they should just get rid of the party system. It's becoming almost pointless. It's almost like you have no choice because everyone's the same.

 

Amen.

[lostfan]

I'm thinking they should just get rid of the party system. It's becoming almost pointless. It's almost like you have no choice because everyone's the same.

The alternative isn't really all that either. Both parties are kind of broad coalitions that usually come together and act in unison but still sometimes break apart on certain issues. If we got rid of parties we'd end up having a European hyper-democratic type of system and we'd have all these smaller parties based on only a couple of issues. Then you can also end up having a mess like in Israel where Netanyahu's party actually lost but actually ended up running the government anyway (well, we had Bush get less votes than Gore and still win the election but that was for different reasons).