KipWellsFan Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 03:57 PM) Former Bush speechwriter David Frum on CNN: Canadian! RINO! Wuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 After 3051 posts...I'm editing the "Topic description" for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:17 PM) Canadian! RINO! Wuss! Here's the coup de grace from that discussion. So today's defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it's mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it';s Waterloo all right: ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:35 PM) <!--quoteo(post=2103374:date=Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:17 PM:name=KipWellsFan)-->QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:17 PM) <!--quotec-->Canadian! RINO! Wuss! Here's the coup de grace from that discussion. I do believe that the Republican party has shifted hard to the right on a number of issues, and that being a moderate Republican is very hard, but I'm not convinced that the Republican Party's electoral fortunes are hurt by this. Could the Republican party really be hoping to retake both houses if there was little controversy on this and the bill was more of a compromise? We'll see, I doubt it. Update: There may also be a little bit of self-interest at play here. Frum might know what kind of commentators MSNBC wants. Do you get paid to be a pundit? Edited March 21, 2010 by KipWellsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:40 PM) I do believe that the Republican party has shifted hard to the right on a number of issues, and that being a moderate Republican is very hard, but I'm not convinced that the Republican Party's electoral fortunes are hurt by this. Could the Republican party really be hoping to retake both houses if there was little controversy on this and the bill was more of a compromise? We'll see, I doubt it. Update: There may also be a little bit of self-interest at play here. Frum might know what kind of commentators MSNBC wants. Do you get paid to be a pundit? Agreed on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 06:40 PM) I do believe that the Republican party has shifted hard to the right on a number of issues, and that being a moderate Republican is very hard, but I'm not convinced that the Republican Party's electoral fortunes are hurt by this. Could the Republican party really be hoping to retake both houses if there was little controversy on this and the bill was more of a compromise? We'll see, I doubt it. Update: There may also be a little bit of self-interest at play here. Frum might know what kind of commentators MSNBC wants. Do you get paid to be a pundit? I don't think he's arguing that the Republicans have hurt their electoral chances in November by choosing outright opposition, but that they've done longer-term, deeper damage by their choices. He illustrates it more clearly in the video or the full text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:44 PM) I don't think he's arguing that the Republicans have hurt their electoral chances in November by choosing outright opposition, but that they've done longer-term, deeper damage by their choices. He illustrates it more clearly in the video or the full text. Yah I agree, and Frum has been making a lot of noise about moderating the party lately as you've probably noticed. So this isn't a huge surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:47 PM) Yah I agree, and Frum has been making a lot of noise about moderating the party lately as you've probably noticed. So this isn't a huge surprise. Yeah the GOP is going to have a difficult time staying relevant if it doesn't moderate at least a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 05:51 PM) Yeah the GOP is going to have a difficult time staying relevant if it doesn't moderate at least a little bit. Why? Then John McCain was the perfect candidate. Yea, that worked. It cracks me up that they are "far right" because they don't want any part of this health care bill that's SOOOOOOOOO compassionate and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 07:07 PM) Why? Then John McCain was the perfect candidate. Yea, that worked. It cracks me up that they are "far right" because they don't want any part of this health care bill that's SOOOOOOOOO compassionate and all. This plan is in essence what the Republicans proposed years ago. They only recently decided they didn't like it. Its kind of surreal to see Romney a couple of weeks back running away from his most significant accomplishment as governor because Romneycare looked an awful lot like Obamacare. McCain losing the general election didn't have much of anything to do with how moderate or far right he was. People at that point were sick of Republicans and he had to bear that cross. They looked at him, they looked at Obama, they decided they wanted Obama, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 04:25 PM) To get Stupak and the four or five votes he has left in his bloc to flip to Yes, Obama promised an Executive Order that affirmed that federal funding for abortions in this act will not be possible due to the Hyde amendment. Stupak got nothing other than the President saying this won't change settled law on federally funded abortions. It must've been to save face at that point because he was getting increasingly irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 President Obama Breaks Faith with Women Statement of NOW President Terry O’Neill The National Organization for Women is incensed that President Barack Obama agreed today to issue an executive order designed to appease a handful of anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care reform in an effort to restrict women’s access to abortion. Through this order, the president has announced he will lend the weight of his office and the entire executive branch to the anti-abortion measures included in the Senate bill, which the House is now prepared to pass. President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice president, but his actions today suggest that his commitment to reproductive health care is shaky at best. Contrary to language in the draft of the executive order and repeated assertions in the news, the Hyde Amendment is not settled law — it is an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. NOW has a longstanding objection to Hyde and, in fact, was looking forward to working with this president and Congress to bring an end to these restrictions. We see now that we have our work cut out for us far beyond what we ever anticipated. The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn’t disagree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 House Minority Leader John Boehner told his conference to "behave like grown-ups" if the healthcare bill is passed by the House on Sunday. The Ohio Republican made the warning at a quick closed-door meeting with fellow House GOP lawmakers at noon in the Capitol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 07:21 PM) It must've been to save face at that point because he was getting increasingly irrelevant. Ish. Stupak was the difference between 214 and 220. If he stopped the bill, he loses a primary - that was very very very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:29 AM) Well even right now, November looks so bad for the Democrats right now is because of the economy, not because of healthcare, like conservatives like to think right now. People's opinions on healthcare haven't really changed that much except for maybe some conservatives that were open to the idea a year ago aren't anymore and some liberals that wanted more don't like that the bill doesn't have a public option. I'm not saying the economy doesn't hurt, but a lot more of it has to do with the fact that for 2 election cycles the democrats essentially won like every competitive seat and lost none. They have a ton of ground to defend. But yeah, today on the drive back i was listening to the cnn thing on XM radio and that alex castilleniois? guy was implying that now nobody could really consider there to be blue dog democrats or pro life democrats now that they are voting with PELOSI, that chamelion-like, fire-breathing centaur with cockroaches for fingers and children for intestines. It couldn't be that, really, this bill is actually a better representation of the blue dogs point of view than the raging liberals (whom i And no one mentions this fact. No one mentions, even as they talk about how the AMA and all these huge organizations endorse it, along with 60 senators* and a majority of the house, that perhaps this is in fact not a crazy left-wing bill. It's like they didn't see the progression, where a robust public option was in the original bill. BUt whatever. I win anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 The GOP has to make this out to be the worse thing ever in the history of humanity. Something that will destroy America unless they are elected to undo it all. The Dems have to make this out to be the greatest moment in the history of mankind. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We're a great nation and will do health care better than any other nation on earth. For everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 06:18 PM) This plan is in essence what the Republicans proposed years ago. They only recently decided they didn't like it. Its kind of surreal to see Romney a couple of weeks back running away from his most significant accomplishment as governor because Romneycare looked an awful lot like Obamacare. McCain losing the general election didn't have much of anything to do with how moderate or far right he was. People at that point were sick of Republicans and he had to bear that cross. They looked at him, they looked at Obama, they decided they wanted Obama, simple as that. No, it really isn't but keep pushing those talking points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 08:12 PM) No, it really isn't but keep pushing those talking points. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (Tex @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 09:04 PM) The truth is somewhere in the middle. We're a great nation and will do health care better than any other nation on earth. For everyone. Not yet, but this will get us closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 The vote will happen in the 10:00 EST Hour. The President is scheduled to speak at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Didn't stop Mike Pence and Eric Cantor from claiming that this bill still pays for abortions... I'm confused. And for the record Paul Ryan sounded like Cicero compared to Pence and Cantor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 08:59 PM) Didn't stop Mike Pence and Eric Cantor from claiming that this bill still pays for abortions... I'm confused. And for the record Paul Ryan sounded like Cicero compared to Pence and Cantor. yep, to save a mother's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Could we have just a little bit more partisanship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 QUOTE (Tex @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 08:04 PM) The GOP has to make this out to be the worse thing ever in the history of humanity. Something that will destroy America unless they are elected to undo it all. The Dems have to make this out to be the greatest moment in the history of mankind. The truth is somewhere in the middle. We're a great nation and will do health care better than any other nation on earth. For everyone. The best comparision I have heard is those who have compared it to Medicare and Social Security. A good faction of this country thinks that is a good thing, and another thinks it is terrible. Those positions are very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Over 200 GOP amendments are included in the bill. At least according to the Majority Leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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