Healthcare reform

[bmags]

I know that I get health insurance until 26 now, which is huge. I was terrified when I had a tooth ache.

[lostfan]

Little hyperbole on the 200 billion. My point still remains though, the government rarely, if ever, makes something more cost effective. And I just don't like the CBO's estimates anyway. Bipartisan or not, they're wrong on occasions, and to me this program can't be wrong or we're really screwing ourselves here in the long term. Just like social security or medicare, now that this is signed, we're never going to take it away. That's not an argument against reform, but of this particular reform. That argument, however, has been lost in the sea of political discourse.

 

And to me your other arguments are what bothers me most. Does this bill address the ridiculous amounts of money that it costs to see a doctor? Is it going to cut costs beyond just preventative care? To me it seems like all we've done is do the health care industry a huge favor by giving them an extra 40 million people to take money from (even if the money is from all of us instead of the individual recieving the service).

 

I dunno, in general I just feel like this was a wasted opportunity. OK yay, we all feel good because 40 million more people aren't dying on the streets of various diseases. For most Americans, we've now protected them against evil insurance companies that put caps and exclusions on their policies (both things i'm in favor of). But the per-transaction cost of the health care industry is still the major problem, and they didn't even address it.

I keep seeing people say this, the bolded especially, that it does nothing to control costs. It does. It might not be as aggressively as some people wanted, but one of the long-term goals was to end the quantity-based system which does affect costs.

[lostfan]

That's what I've been saying all along.

 

I will edit by saying it does do SOME good things in the insurance arena that I felt were necessary, but it then does some very negative things without fixing the underlying issues at all -- cost. The costs remain the same, but now taxpayers help foot the bill...only now we have 30,000,000 more people involved.

 

Funny that all the health care and drug stocks are up. The financial sector seems to think, if anything, this HELPED them more than it hurt them.

 

Edit again, I see some insurance companies are down now, but not much.

I know it's been lost on a lot of people what with the random paranoia and distortion and all, but this bill was basically put together *by* the insurance and drug industries, and the top recipients of campaign contributions from them are actually to Democrats and not even ones that were hard votes.

[bmags]

I keep seeing people say this, the bolded especially, that it does nothing to control costs. It does. It might not be as aggressively as some people wanted, but one of the long-term goals was to end the quantity-based system which does affect costs.

 

And I'll also say, it initially DID have a lot more provider-side cost controls, but again, that hurts doctors...and people like doctors.

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Sucks to be him:

Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of the Susan B. Anthony List Candidate Fund, said her group was revoking its “Defender of Life” award to Stupak, which was to be awarded at its Wednesday night gala. “Let me be clear: Any representative, including Rep. Stupak, who votes for this health...care bill can no longer call themselves ‘pro-life,’” Dannenfelser said.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Purely hypothetical question: Under this new system, can my family drop employer insurance and join an exchange?

[HuskyCaucasian]

What does the Health Care Bill mean for me?

 

I am posting the link to my facebook page. This should be fun.....

[Texsox]

I am posting the link to my facebook page. This should be fun.....

 

I did the same thing. About 75% of my friends are GOPerheads.

[bmags]

Purely hypothetical question: Under this new system, can my family drop employer insurance and join an exchange?

 

You know, I don't think so. You'd have to see if you'd be up for a subsidy. The hope is that this creates a more affordable individual insurance market, which could benefit you.

 

Another point, there was a study showing that premiums would rise, a cbo story, but it showed that it rose because people would get better insurance.

 

So you might find that you could get a better policy for the same price.

 

Also, remember that shopping for insurance will be more open.

[Cknolls]

Of course...if we really wanted to make a difference in people's lifestyles, there are other levers we could push. For example, we could stop dumping tens of billions of dollars a year into corn subsidy programs.

 

 

Don't leave out the sugar cane farmers and the milking cow farmers too!

[Cknolls]

My results: There will be no change to your insurance coverage. You will not pay any additional taxes.

 

OMG!!! SOCIALISM!! COMMUNISM!!

 

 

And you forgot the deficit will come down.

[southsider2k5]

My results: There will be no change to your insurance coverage. You will not pay any additional taxes.

 

OMG!!! SOCIALISM!! COMMUNISM!!

 

Do you honestly believe that insurance companies paying higher costs aren't going to pass them on to consumers? YOU may not be paying the tax directly, but you will pay for it.

[kapkomet]

Do you honestly believe that insurance companies paying higher costs aren't going to pass them on to consumers? YOU may not be paying the tax directly, but you will pay for it.

 

 

They believe that everything will be better, cheaper, more coverage, etc. because that's what Obama, Nancy, and Harry told them.

[Balta1701]

Purely hypothetical question: Under this new system, can my family drop employer insurance and join an exchange?

Unless you work for a small business with less than 50 employees, the answer is no. Remember that selling point where the President kept saying "If you like your insurance, you get to keep it"? What they didn't tell you was that if you don't like your insurance, once we get rid of the public plan, you're stuck with it.

 

Basically, if you don't like your insurance you need to find a new job.

[Balta1701]

Do you honestly believe that insurance companies paying higher costs aren't going to pass them on to consumers? YOU may not be paying the tax directly, but you will pay for it.

Do you honestly believe that you're not already paying higher costs because of the insurance companies?

[bmags]

Basically, if you don't like your insurance you need to find a new job.

 

MEHHHHH, perhaps RIGHT NOW, I'm optimistic this bill will create a much more favorable individual market.

[Balta1701]

MEHHHHH, perhaps RIGHT NOW, I'm optimistic this bill will create a much more favorable individual market.

That's certainly one possibility...but you'd be forbidden from entering the improved market by now, if you have a large enough employer.

 

Long-term, opening up the exchanges to more people is an obvious, obvious method of improving this bill. But of course, anything that forces health insurers to have to put up competitive plans is evil.

[southsider2k5]

Do you honestly believe that you're not already paying higher costs because of the insurance companies?

 

And the best way to fix that is to add more costs to them. That makes total sense. They will totally give up profit margins!

[Balta1701]

And the best way to fix that is to add more costs to them. That makes total sense. They will totally give up profit margins!

But you guys keep telling me they're not that profitable!

 

(Of course...what they could actually do is work to cut administrative and overhead costs, because that's where you make your ground up and put out a better plan at lower cost. But you know, capitalism only works once you bail people out).

[bmags]

they are getting new customers...remember.

[Balta1701]

they are getting new customers...remember.

Ezra has a read on how the exchanges actually work that is better than I can write.

 

In a different post, he also address the matter I was scoffing at 2k5 about a moment ago in an interview with a Princeton economist (no, not that one).

How about the cost controls on the insurance side? Things like the exchanges, the excise tax. Are you optimistic this will work?

 

I’m very optimistic on the exchanges. Think of how insurance is sold. Some insurers say they need to burn 40 percent of their premiums on administration and advertising and brokers. Imagine telling another country that America’s insurers need to be able to burn 40 cents of every dollar. That’s going to end in the exchanges. And that will save a lot of money.

[southsider2k5]

they are getting new customers...remember.

 

Sure, all of the expensive ones that have been supposedly been excluded until now.

[bmags]

Sure, all of the expensive ones that have been supposedly been excluded until now.

 

Yes, it's 30 million cancer patients.

[vandy125]

Ezra has a read on how the exchanges actually work that is better than I can write.

 

In a different post, he also address the matter I was scoffing at 2k5 about a moment ago in an interview with a Princeton economist (no, not that one).

 

Holy cow! 40 cents of each dollar on admin? The company I work for is at 7 cents of every dollar to admin, with 5 cents going to taxes, we shoot for a 0-2 cent profit and pay out 86 cents of every dolllar. Last year, we lost a ton of money and actually paid out something like 93 or 94 cents of every dollar that we took in. Who the heck are these 40 cent companies?

[kapkomet]

Holy cow! 40 cents of each dollar on admin? The company I work for is at 7 cents of every dollar to admin, with 5 cents going to taxes, we shoot for a 0-2 cent profit and pay out 86 cents of every dolllar. Last year, we lost a ton of money and actually paid out something like 93 or 94 cents of every dollar that we took in. Who the heck are these 40 cent companies?

 

 

And I think the company you work at is closer to norm, but someone has to be a villian when coming up with these "wonderful, the world needs love, sweet love... er health care" and the insurance companies were it. STRAWMAN.