Healthcare reform

[Balta1701]

Supposedly, the Senate is gearing up for a vote on the reconciliation bill today. There have been a few minor changes based on the Senate Parliamentarian's rulings last night, and there's still the possibility of an amendment or two actually being adopted since it's going to actually have to go back to the House now.

 

Reid seems to have decided that an appropriate response to shutting down the work of all the committees was to make the Republicans actually run a legitimate filibuster until about 2:00 a.m. last night. The Senate resumes at 9:45 today. No idea if/when a vote will actually happen yet.

[bmags]

Here's how the government will track you down and throw you in guantanimo if you are republican.

EZRA KLEIN

Posted at 11:55 AM ET, 03/25/2010

How does the individual mandate work?

 

So long as legal challenges to the individual mandate are in the news, we might as well be clear about what the mandate is, and how it works.

 

The individual mandate is a requirement that all individuals who can afford health-care insurance purchase some minimally comprehensive policy. For the purposes of the law, "individuals who can afford health-care insurance" is defined as people for whom the minimum policy will not cost more than 8 percent of their monthly income, and who make more than the poverty line. So if coverage would cost more than 8 percent of your monthly income, or you're making very little, you're not on the hook to buy insurance (and, because of other provisions in the law, you're getting subsidies that make insurance virtually costless anyway).

 

Most people will never notice the mandate, as they get insurance through their employer and that's good enough for the government. But of those who aren't exempt and aren't insured, the choice will be this: Purchase insurance or pay a small fine. In 2016, the first year the fine is fully in place, it will be $695 a year or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is higher. That makes the mandate progressive.

 

And what happens if you don't buy insurance and you don't pay the penalty? Well, not much. The law specifically says that no criminal action or liens can be imposed on people who don't pay the fine. If this actually leads to a world in which large numbers of people don't buy insurance and tell the IRS to stuff it, you could see that change. But for now, the penalties are low and the enforcement is non-existent.

 

The theory behind the mandate is simple: It's there to protect against an insurance death spiral. Now that insurers can't discriminate based on preexisting conditions, it would be entirely possible for people to forgo insurance until, well, they develop a medical condition. In that world, the bulk of the people buying insurance on the exchanges are sick, and that makes the average premiums terrifically expensive. The mandate is there to bring healthy people into the pool, which keeps average costs down and also ensures that people aren't riding free on the system by letting society pay when they get hit by a bus.

 

The irony of the mandate is that it's been presented as a terribly onerous tax on decent, hardworking people who don't want to purchase insurance. In reality, it's the best deal in the bill: A cynical consumer would be smart to pay the modest penalty rather than pay thousands of dollars a year for insurance. In the current system, that's a bad idea because insurers won't let them buy insurance if they get sick later. In the reformed system, there's no consequence for that behavior. You could pay the penalty for five years and then buy insurance the day you felt a lump.

 

Luckily, consumers aren't usually that cynical, and the experience of places such as Massachusetts suggests that individual mandates encourage people to buy insurance even when it might make sense for people to simply pay the penalty. But for all the furor over the individual mandate, the danger in the bill is much more that it is too weak and too good a deal than that it is too strong and too punitive a tax.

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klei...ual_mandat.html

Edited March 25, 2010 by bmags

[Texsox]

Can parents kick a 15 year old out of the house and stop being responsibile for the 15 year olds actions? Last I heard a parent can be fined and jailed if the child is truant.

[bmags]

Senate passes reconciliation 56-41. Goes back to house. Apparently the language changes were very small, house says it will be passed later tonight. Then it's allllllll ovah

[NorthSideSox72]

Senate passes reconciliation 56-41. Goes back to house. Apparently the language changes were very small, house says it will be passed later tonight. Then it's allllllll ovah

Does Obama have to sign again? Maybe he'll veto it. That would be some s***. Will Biden use a different expletive at the next signing?

 

[bmags]

Does Obama have to sign again? Maybe he'll veto it. That would be some s***. Will Biden use a different expletive at the next signing?

 

Yes, this is a different bill.

[CanOfCorn]

Does Obama have to sign again? Maybe he'll veto it. That would be some s***. Will Biden use a different expletive at the next signing?

 

Did I say this was a big f***ing deal? What I meant to say was, this is the biggest motherf***ing deal in the history of the whole f***ing universe!

[southsider2k5]

Does Obama have to sign again? Maybe he'll veto it. That would be some s***. Will Biden use a different expletive at the next signing?

 

Ah I remember way back when it was a tragedy when our VP cursed off mic...

 

I swear the only way you can tell the difference between the Bush admin and the Obama admin is by the letters after the names. They have just mirror imaged being the party of freaking out, and the party being a victim. They run their governments the same way, they use the same tactics, and at the end of the day it is just about power and money.

[bmags]

again, there is no difference between telling someone to f*** off on the floor of congress and saying this is a big f***ing deal at a bill signing.

[vandy125]

Here's how the government will track you down and throw you in guantanimo if you are republican.

...

A cynical consumer would be smart to pay the modest penalty rather than pay thousands of dollars a year for insurance. In the current system, that's a bad idea because insurers won't let them buy insurance if they get sick later. In the reformed system, there's no consequence for that behavior. You could pay the penalty for five years and then buy insurance the day you felt a lump.

 

Luckily, consumers aren't usually that cynical, and the experience of places such as Massachusetts suggests that individual mandates encourage people to buy insurance even when it might make sense for people to simply pay the penalty. But for all the furor over the individual mandate, the danger in the bill is much more that it is too weak and too good a deal than that it is too strong and too punitive a tax.

...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klei...ual_mandat.html

 

These are the sorts of things I've been suggesting can happen. Are people going to get insurance with the weak mandate? I would hope that the MA experience corresponds in that part of it with what happens here.

[Texsox]

I would support a period of time where a new disease would not be covered unless you already have insurance. It is easily the area I have the most concern about.

[BigSqwert]

I would support a period of time where a new disease would not be covered unless you already have insurance. It is easily the area I have the most concern about.

What exactly is the concern?

[Texsox]

What exactly is the concern?

 

 

Imagine if this was auto insurance. Oops! I got in an accident, I better buy some insurance. Or, damn someone broke into my home and stole everything, I better buy some insurance, I can always cancel next month.

 

To be insured for something that has already happened, and you know about it, seems unreasonable.

[Balta1701]

Imagine if this was auto insurance. Oops! I got in an accident, I better buy some insurance. Or, damn someone broke into my home and stole everything, I better buy some insurance, I can always cancel next month.

 

To be insured for something that has already happened, and you know about it, seems unreasonable.

This is what I keep referring to as the "Health insurance death spiral" and it's what happens if the Republicans were to campaign on say a "partial repeal" where they decide they don't want to go out and say "we want insurance companies to be able to reject you based on pre-existing conditions". If you ban pre-existing condition rejections, you can't have people uninsured, or at least they have to be paying a fine into the system, otherwise it breaks.

 

Long term, I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up having to strengthen the fines to avoid this problem.

[BigSqwert]

Single payer takes care of all those issues.

[Balta1701]

Single payer takes care of all those issues.

Commie Fascist.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ah I remember way back when it was a tragedy when our VP cursed off mic...

 

I swear the only way you can tell the difference between the Bush admin and the Obama admin is by the letters after the names. They have just mirror imaged being the party of freaking out, and the party being a victim. They run their governments the same way, they use the same tactics, and at the end of the day it is just about power and money.

What the... I was just making a joke. I didn't give much a crap about Cheney doing it, other than it was unprofessional. I didn't give much of a crap when Biden did it, except it was unprofessional. When did I ever say it was different here?

 

And as for the idea that BushCo and ObamaCo do all things the same exact way... lol wut?

 

[lostfan]

I have to catch up on these threads when I get home from work and I saw Godwin's law invoked a couple of times, so since we're on that, there is this ranting moron mouth-breather at my job, he is like a far, far loony right-wing type. Anyway he was going on an unsolicited rant about healthcare and socialism and s*** (really annoying btw, I don't want to hear that at work) and said "now I know how the Jews felt in the 1930s" or some dumb s***. Leaving aside the fact that the Jews in the 1930s could've never gotten away with saying anything like that... umm... what? So he's saying he knows what Zyklon B smells like? He's saying he was locked in a heated oven? WTF?

[StrangeSox]

Sounds like that person's brain is broken.

 

eta: maybe he can use some of this government health care to get that fixed now

Edited March 25, 2010 by StrangeSox

[lostfan]

Even better, he is a gov't employee.

[Kyyle23]

I had an acquaintance on facebook(lets call him Brandon) who rants and raves about Obama and Healthcare and says words like commie and socialist, and I am pretty sure he says them because all of his friends say the same thing and they dont quite understand how they apply. He has thinly veiled racist comments about Obama, and the worst part is my best friend is black, and all three of us were in a wedding together for Brandons cousin. So not only do me and Shaun see him saying things like "I make money for my family, not for everyone else" but I also have to see him say things like "This guy I saw mowing the lawn the other day looked kind of obama-ish, I wanted to kick him in the nuts". Me and my best friend had to remove him from our friendlist because it go to be so bad.

 

Sometimes its a pretty sad world.

[kapkomet]

Well, Obama is socialist. But whatever, it's an overused word right now. It doesn't mean he's a commie bastard, he's just a socialist, especially in the American political spectrum.

 

[lostfan]

If anyone asked an actual socialist (i.e. Socialist Party USA) about Obama or the Democrats they wouldn't exactly give glowing reviews. And they hate this healthcare bill.

[southsider2k5]

If anyone asked an actual socialist (i.e. Socialist Party USA) about Obama or the Democrats they wouldn't exactly give glowing reviews. And they hate this healthcare bill.

 

Do Castro and Chavez count?

[lostfan]

Do Castro and Chavez count?

Depends. Foreign policy or domestic front? Actually either way they think he's phony because he's still the US president