Healthcare reform

[kapkomet]

There's one thing you're missing, and it's the one we keep coming back to; scale. You put me out there on the market on my own buying insurance and frankly I'm outgunned, especially if insurers have the right to turn down your family because of any reason they want. You're purchasing insurance against something that might happen to you in the future; you have no ability to guarantee at the time of purchase what type of quality you'll get if you need the insurer to work. That's one of the reasons I keep ranting against insurers; they spend so much money trying to deny you care once you get in to their system. And when you throw in the fact that, as I presented a week or so ago, much of the country is considered "Highly concentrated" in being served by only 1 or 2 insurers at max, you really don't have a lot of choices.

 

When you go through a company, you have the small advantage in that the company has numbers. The insurer can't bully them around as much because they have more negotiating power than you do personally. They have the ability to work at cost-control on different levels. They can't deny an employee as easily based on preexisting conditions or find ways around paying their end when a full company is involved. Even in a highly concentrated market, you gain just a little bit of leverage.

I understand that - but reset the whole thing, have something like co-ops, and you start to have the ability to generate real choices.

 

[Texsox]

Once again, to where? Where the heck are all of these empty clinics and doctors offices that I keep hearing about that people are going to flock to?

 

Here, they are the "won't treat you without payment first" Doctors.

[kapkomet]

Here, they are the "won't treat you without payment first" Doctors.

Do your job for free after 12 years of post high school education.

 

 

[Texsox]

Do your job for free after 12 years of post high school education.

 

I agree. However, that forces uninsured and working poor patients to the ER for non emergency treatments. A system overhaul that gets them out of the overburdened ER and into a lower cost alternative, would be an improvement.

[kapkomet]

I agree. However, that forces uninsured and working poor patients to the ER for non emergency treatments. A system overhaul that gets them out of the overburdened ER and into a lower cost alternative, would be an improvement.

Yes, I get that too.

 

You have to get rid of certain regulations to allow the system to be fixed.

 

[Texsox]

Yes, I get that too.

 

You have to get rid of certain regulations to allow the system to be fixed.

 

Also, those that can pay, either through their insurance or being self insured, are picking up the tab for those that are treated and do not have the resources to pay. It would seem to me then, if the system was more direct, and we actually paid out of our pocket for them, we'd want them out of the ER and into some clinic.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Biden, Hospital Leaders Announce Pact To Help Cover Uninsured

 

The nation's hospitals will give up $155 billion in future Medicare and Medicaid payments to help defray the cost of President Barack Obama's health care plan, a concession the White House hopes will boost an overhaul effort that's hit a roadblock in Congress.

 

Vice President Joe Biden announced the deal at the White House on Wednesday, with administration officials and hospital administrators at his side.

 

"Reform is coming. It is on track; it is coming. We have tried for decades to fix a broken system, and we have never, in my entire tenure in public life, been this close," Biden said. And in a firm message to lawmakers, Biden added, "We must _ and we will _ enact reform by the end of August."

-----------

The deal with the hospitals _ the one bright spot right now for Obama _ may also be on shaky ground. Officials said it's pegged to the Senate Finance Committee legislation that Baucus is negotiating, and whose prospects are uncertain. It would follow concessions from drug companies, and an announcement by Wal-Mart last week that it would support an employer requirement to help pay for health care.

 

Of the $155 billion in projected savings from hospitals, about $40 billion to $50 billion would come from reducing federal payments hospitals receive for providing care to uninsured and low-income patients, according to lobbyists. Those payments are now made through the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The Medicaid cuts would be apportioned by state, as 10 percent annual reductions beginning around 2015.

 

Officials of public hospitals say they have concerns such reductions could also squeeze funding for trauma centers and burn units, which receive Medicare and Medicaid money. But they wanted to see the fine print.

 

Other savings of about $100 billion would come from slowing increases in planned Medicare payments to hospitals. A small amount of savings would come from trimming the money hospitals get for preventing patients from being readmitted for additional care.

 

Hospitals would also get something out of the deal. They won an agreement that if the Finance Committee's legislation includes a public health insurance plan, it would reimburse hospitals at above the rates Medicare and Medicaid pay, which hospitals have long complained are insufficient.

[lostfan]

Howard Dean on healthcare reform. Balta's probably the only one that's going to read this at face value though I'm sure.

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richardson...lth-care-070709

[Balta1701]

CNN, Fox News Channel, and MSNBC aired at least 15 segments to discussing the Congressional Budget Office's preliminary analysis of an incomplete version of the Senate health committee's draft health reform bill, but they have aired only one segment to the CBO's analysis of the updated bill.

Link.

[Balta1701]

This healthcare reform effort has officially moved farther than the Clinton effort ever did. We have a bill in writing from the House today.

[Balta1701]

CBO score on the house version: cost is $1 trillion over 10 years, insures 97% of the population. Edit: that does not include any of the revenue measures.

[southsider2k5]

CBO score on the house version: cost is $1 trillion over 10 years, insures 97% of the population. Edit: that does not include any of the revenue measures.

 

 

Bulls***.

 

Break down their numbers.

 

They are really trying to say that for $100 billion dollars a year (a trillion dollars divided by the 10 years) they could provide near full coverage for the entire country.

 

Perspective here.

 

That is $3000 per person, per year, for 10 years. (300 million people, divided by 100 billion dollars)

 

Excuse me while I LMFAO.

 

Most companies are paying in the area of 10,000 dollars per employee for health insurance when you add back the employee contribution. And we are supposed to believe that the government is going to somehow insure the most uninsurable people in the country for 30% of what the private sector does it? Good god, are people really that naive?

[Balta1701]

You're not reading it correctly at all. That does not mean that the total cost of health care for everyone in the United States will be $100 billion a year. That is the additional cost of starting up this program, taking costs away from the states and small businesses, and covering 97% of the remaining uninsured.

[southsider2k5]

You're not reading it correctly at all. That does not mean that the total cost of health care for everyone in the United States will be $100 billion a year. That is the additional cost of starting up this program and covering 97% of the remaining uninsured.

 

So those 80,000,000 people you quoted are going to be covered for less than what the private sector is doing it at, there will be no population growth, and will be no large dropping of insurance by companies after the government taxes them for it.

 

Yeah, I still don't buy it.

[Balta1701]

So those 80,000,000 people you quoted are going to be covered for less than what the private sector is doing it at, there will be no population growth, and will be no large dropping of insurance by companies after the government taxes them for it.

 

Yeah, I still don't buy it.

It's 48 million for this purpose. 80 million at some point during the year, on average about 48 million at any given time.

 

"I still don't buy it". There's some counter-logic against the CBO numbers.

[kapkomet]

It's 48 million for this purpose. 80 million at some point during the year, on average about 48 million at any given time.

 

"I still don't buy it". There's some counter-logic against the CBO numbers.

Yes. Everything government is the (g)od's honest truth. It's the only thing that can fix everything while still lying through their teeth.

 

 

[BearSox]

This healthcare reform effort has officially moved farther than the Clinton effort ever did. We have a bill in writing from the House today.

 

The Obama administration and it's tricks. Once again, while everyone is looking one way (Sotomayor hearings), Barry and Friends are coming up with a bill for nationalized health care already, and no one in the MSM is reporting it.

[southsider2k5]

It's 48 million for this purpose. 80 million at some point during the year, on average about 48 million at any given time.

 

"I still don't buy it". There's some counter-logic against the CBO numbers.

 

LOL. Its 80,000,000 when it needs pity, but 48,000,000 when it comes to the CBO? So at any given time 32,000,000 are going to be going uninsured during the year? That sounds like it is more than 3% of the current uninsured to me. Are you sure you are looking at the right sets of talking points there?

 

Those kinds of holes in logic are exactly why I don't believe the numbers. The figures change based on which arguement is being made, and I am just supposed to swallow all of that? Please.

 

And like I said, the numbers don't add up. Basically they are saying they can do it cheaper than the private sector, while being able to absorb 20 million illegals, whatever population growth there is in the next 10 years, and not have a massive influx of insured because the employment sector gets sick of being taxed for something else and drops coverage.

 

I'd love to hear the "logic" behind those assumptions.

[Balta1701]

The Obama administration and it's tricks. Once again, while everyone is looking one way (Sotomayor hearings), Barry and Friends are coming up with a bill for nationalized health care already, and no one in the MSM is reporting it.

Clearly, the Obama administration set the schedule for:

 

1. Souter's resignation

2. The end of this year's Supreme Court term

3. The beginning of next year's Supreme Court term

4. The fall recess for the House and Senate.

 

These guys have some ridiculous power. Next thing you know they'll be using their mental gymnastics to start having their opposition do crazy, insane, ludicrous things, like pay huge sums of money to mistresses or just flat out resign.

[Balta1701]

LOL. Its 80,000,000 when it needs pity, but 48,000,000 when it comes to the CBO? So at any given time 32,000,000 are going to be going uninsured during the year? That sounds like it is more than 3% of the current uninsured to me. Are you sure you are looking at the right sets of talking points there?

Why in the world is this so hard to understand?

 

At any given time, there are ~48 million uninsured in this country. Some of them are continuously uninsured. Some are not.

 

During any given year, 80 million people, 1/4 of the country's population, will be uninsured for at least some time.

[kapkomet]

Clearly, the Obama administration set the schedule for:

 

1. Souter's resignation

2. The end of this year's Supreme Court term

3. The beginning of next year's Supreme Court term

4. The fall recess for the House and Senate.

 

These guys have some ridiculous power. Next thing you know they'll be using their mental gymnastics to start having their opposition do crazy, insane, ludicrous things, like pay huge sums of money to mistresses or just flat out resign.

Yes, we know. Republicans are all things evil to the United Social States of Amerikkka.

 

By the way, BearSox, you're wrong. They're covering health care, just not the part of how much it's REALLY going to cost.

[Balta1701]

By the way, BearSox, you're wrong. They're covering health care, just not the part of how much it's REALLY going to cost.

And they're clearly not covering how those dastardly rascals have invaded the Congressional Budget office and in the few weeks since the estimate the Republicans loved turned it in to some cesspool where no one can do math.

 

Really, this has gone beyond silly. "We haven't seen the bill, but we know the CBO can't do math unless it puts out numbers we really like!"

[southsider2k5]

Why in the world is this so hard to understand?

 

At any given time, there are ~48 million uninsured in this country. Some of them are continuously uninsured. Some are not.

 

During any given year, 80 million people, 1/4 of the country's population, will be uninsured for at least some time.

 

Thank you for finally admitted the 80,000,000 number is garbage for this topic.

 

Also I have noticed that you have ignored the rest of the post two times in a row now.

[kapkomet]

And they're clearly not covering how those dastardly rascals have invaded the Congressional Budget office and in the few weeks since the estimate the Republicans loved turned it in to some cesspool where no one can do math.

 

Really, this has gone beyond silly. "We haven't seen the bill, but we know the CBO can't do math unless it puts out numbers we really like!"

There's no way in hell they know what it's going to cost. They will "misinterpret" the data and blame it on Bush, I'm sure.

 

[Balta1701]

Thank you for finally admitted the 80,000,000 number is garbage for this topic.

 

Also I have noticed that you have ignored the rest of the post two times in a row now.

1. How the fact that 1/4 of the country's population is uninsured at some point every year doesn't play in to this, especially when the elderly are all covered with Medicare, baffles me. That's exactly the point!

 

2. Why bother with the rest of the post? You are outright saying that you don't believe their math and giving absolutely no reasons why I should believe that your math is better than theirs, you're just repeating the challenges over and over.

 

And hell, if you're giving me issues over the definition of the uninsured, how much of a problem can I give you for your artificial number of 20 million Illegals?