Healthcare reform

[bigruss]

I'm not saying that the motive for profit in and of itself is a bad thing, because when you run a business that's what you do. I'm saying that in this particular case I'm all for tighter regulation and more government involvement than I would normally be because it's a different situation.

So what would you propose?

 

Realistically, I could see an agreement between the two sides where the patent time is increased so the pharma companies can control it longer but there is a limit by the govt on how much the pharma companies can charge per pill/dose/prescription whatever.

 

I have no idea about the legal implications of such a deal though.

[Cubano]

Why do I have to pay for somebody consuming drugs in the street?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that is sitting at home watching soap opera or Jerry Springer or Geraldo Rivera or Oprah?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that keep having kids with 100 men to collect government handouts?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that simply do not want to improve themselves?

 

I can not wait for the elections again.

 

With all the spending going on, inflation should pick up to high levels. Hopefully, voters will blame Obama.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Cubano

[Soxbadger]

Balta,

 

Very little money in cures, only treatment.

 

What exact motivation is there for a drug company or Dr to completely heal a patient?

 

Sure its good publicity, but how many times have you bought a drug from company X because they cured a different unrelated illness/disease.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why do I have to pay for somebody consuming drugs in the street?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that is sitting at home watching soap opera or Jerry Springer or Geraldo Rivera or Oprah?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that keep having kids with 100 men to collect government handouts?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that simply do not want to improve themselves?

I'm going to use my favorite lostfan response here...

 

lol wut?

 

[lostfan]

So what would you propose?

 

Realistically, I could see an agreement between the two sides where the patent time is increased so the pharma companies can control it longer but there is a limit by the govt on how much the pharma companies can charge per pill/dose/prescription whatever.

 

I have no idea about the legal implications of such a deal though.

I was going to say something like that but you already did. Increase the time the patent is valid so they don't need to raise prices as much (unless someone tells me that's a bad idea), and somehow de-incentivize cost increases through regulations or whatever.

 

Honestly though, I'm not familiar enough with the industry to write anything in-depth, I'm just a semi-educated casual observer to it all.

[bigruss]

The biggest problem with that setup not being talked about here is that it also puts the profit motive in the wrong direction. The most profitable pill for a company to develop is not going to be the one that makes the greatest number of people healthy or cures a disease the easiest; it's the one that people have to take every day for the entire time that it is under control of their patent. So, instead of drugs that could be targeted towards curing things, we get drugs that manage symptoms, or drugs that are aimed at things that really aren't life threatening. You wind up with erectile dysfunction drugs and antidepressants being the most profitable type of drugs, while necessary things like improving our vaccine manufacturing languishes because you only need that one time per year.

Eh, obviously there needs to be a demand for the drug for a company to deem it a risk worth investing in, but you can say that about alot of products that never make it to market that would help people, just not a large amount of people.

 

Those drugs do take up R&D time, efforts, and money, but it is just one division of the pharma field. Hell, the company I work for develops transplant drugs, uruology drugs, skin drugs, drugs that help the immune system (Im not that caught up with the terminology so please excuse that), so we have a wide variety that we research and develop. Many of our drugs that we have now and in the pipeline do not reflect a drug such as antidepressants etc, they are drugs that will help stop the expansion of certain cancers, help organs be accepted by the body after a transplant, help the body keep a strong immune system even during the organ acceptance period, etc. Yet we are still making a good profit.

[lostfan]

Why do I have to pay for somebody consuming drugs in the street?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that is sitting at home watching soap opera or Jerry Springer or Geraldo Rivera or Oprah?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that keep having kids with 100 men to collect government handouts?

 

Why do I have to pay for somebody that simply do not want to improve themselves?

 

I can not wait for the elections again.

 

With all the spending going on, inflation should pick up to high levels. Hopefully, voters will blame Obama.

lol wut

 

 

I'm going to use my favorite lostfan response here...

 

lol wut?

[Cubano]

Does anybody here live in one of the countries with free health care like Canada, France, etc?

 

In Cuba, for example, there is shortage of medicines, IV's, long lines to see a doctor, etc. If you go to a hospital, then you need to take sheets, pillows, soaps, etc. If a doctor performs a wrong procedure, you can not sue him. I am not saying the USA will be like that, but the quality will suffer. I garantee you that.

[bigruss]

I was going to say something like that but you already did. Increase the time the patent is valid so they don't need to raise prices as much (unless someone tells me that's a bad idea), and somehow de-incentivize cost increases through regulations or whatever.

 

Honestly though, I'm not familiar enough with the industry to write anything in-depth, I'm just a semi-educated casual observer to it all.

Im pretty sure that as long as you present a business plan that is still very profitable for the pharma company along with helping out more people in terms of cost for the drug you would see a pretty good reception in the pharma industry. Do I know this for a fact? Nope. But working here and getting to know many of the top employees such as the Director of R&D and IT and the VP of R&D and IT and how they are down to earth people who take pride in working for a company that is more about being a business, but one that helps people with their products makes it encouraging to me that it would be receptive. I do not know about all the drug companies, and I know people who have worked for Pfizer and they are very different when it comes to business practice (they are very arrogant there, not everybody there is, but the majority of top bosses are).

[Cubano]

Theyre still a business that is trying to make as much profit as possible, you take that away you threaten to take away their resources to reinvest into R&D, and then everybody hurts because less advancements in medicine are made.

 

 

If I am one of these companies, I will be moving overseas. These comanies have to run a business and pay their workers, investors, etc.

[lostfan]

Canada's pretty far from the socialist hellhole that people like to say it is.

[bigruss]

If I am one of these companies, I will be moving overseas. These comanies have to run a business and pay their workers, investors, etc.

Of the pharma companies I know, many have overseas operations.

 

Without giving to many specifics, the company I work for is based out of Japan and has large operations here in the US and in Europe.

[Rex Kickass]

Does anybody here live in one of the countries with free health care like Canada, France, etc?

 

I have required medical treatment in France. The treatment was well done, simple and free.

[kapkomet]

Of the pharma companies I know, many have overseas operations.

 

Without giving to many specifics, the company I work for is based out of Japan and has large operations here in the US and in Europe.

Hell yes they do. Most have shell companies in Switzerland. Why? 12.5%, baby.

 

There's a whole other side of this I'm not even going into.

 

[Cubano]

As soon as you have a government run health care, private companies will eliminate their coverage. There is no sense for them not to reduce costs. Obama and the democrats are smart by saying the new system will not compete with the private system but in fact it will. That is the way lefties operate. Let start with something first and then we expand. Hopefully, I am wrong and it will take lots of year for me to finally say to you a loud "I told you so".

 

Medicare, Medicaid and SS are bankarrupts. Then, we want another program run by the government.

 

How about having these people without insurance who work and buy the federal health insurance? If you do not work, then no health care for you.

 

 

[lostfan]

Hell yes they do. Most have shell companies in Switzerland. Why? 12.5%, baby.

 

There's a whole other side of this I'm not even going into.

You already have before, at length

[BigSqwert]

If you do not work, then no health care for you.

Perhaps you haven't seen the latest unemployment numbers.

[bigruss]

Perhaps you haven't seen the latest unemployment numbers.

And alot of those people arent really lazy people or unqualified workers, theres a s***load of talented, well educated workers on the unemployment list right now.

[BigSqwert]

And alot of those people arent really lazy people or unqualified workers, theres a s***load of talented, well educated workers on the unemployment list right now.

Well too bad. Screw them. I'm not paying for their health care. Let 'em die.

[Cubano]

They can go and work for Walt-Mart who is adding 22,000 jobs. Ha, ha, ha.

[kapkomet]

And alot of those people arent really lazy people or unqualified workers, theres a s***load of talented, well educated workers on the unemployment list right now.

Hi.

 

[mr_genius]

They can go and work for Walt-Mart who is adding 22,000 jobs. Ha, ha, ha.

 

Walmart just announced a billion dollar outsourcing deal with India. they actually said that people can get cashier jobs at their stores to replace their IT, accounting, and management positions they lost to the outsourcing.

 

 

[Brian]

I work for a hospital and get excellent benefits. They were better last year before we merged with Advocate. When I would go to my hospital for anything, I paid zero. But with this merger, I have to pay 10%, which is fine.

 

I would like to put a time limit on billing though. I had something done last November and just got another bill. 7 months, kinda long IMO.

 

[kapkomet]

Walmart just announced a billion dollar outsourcing deal with India. they actually said that people can get cashier jobs at their stores to replace their IT, accounting, and management positions they lost to the outsourcing.

I just need to go to India and get it over with, or work 29.9 hours a week at Wal-Mart for minimum wage.

[Balta1701]

I just need to go to India and get it over with, or work 29.9 hours a week at Wal-Mart for minimum wage.

That's the U.S. economy the way it should be.