Healthcare reform

[bmags]

I've never claimed that.

[Y2HH]

I've never claimed that.

 

I know it was a stupid joke on my part.

 

Just from personal experience related to this whole matter, my point of view is and will be biased, obviously I'm skeptical of polls and whatnot when it comes to this subject, as I see a lot of manipulation on all sides from all things related to heath care. Especially considering I'm industry insider in relation to this, I see the type of manipulation that goes on.

 

Obviously the system is broken, I think everyone agrees on that. I simply have no faith the government (of all things) can take a system that's too expensive and make it cheaper while maintaining or improving quality. I see no quality coming from this -- none -- regardless of them saying so over and over. I see it as an obvious case of tell the lie enough and it becomes the truth.

 

I just don't care to see an already bankrupt government spend even more money -- I think their current tab (best/lowest estimates) is like 1T over 10 years for this?! Who here believes our government will actually keep within that budget constraint? Even if passed at 1T total -- I bet that number balloons to something much MUCH higher...and we can add even more deficit and debt to our bankrupt ledgers which will undoubtedly lead to more soda/liquor/tobacco/water/food/walking around taxes, in addition to higher income tax, on top of some other form of tax.

 

I'm still waiting for the tax on taxes.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Y2HH

[HuskyCaucasian]

Oh Good Lord:

GOP: Dem Health Care Proposal Promotes/Requires euthanasia

Sean Hannity believes it. So does House Minority Leader John Boehner. Talk show host Fred Thompson calls it “the dirty little secret” of the health care reform debate.

 

The focus of their ire is a provision tucked deep inside the House bill that would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation once every five years. If a person falls ill with a life-threatening disease, more frequent sessions would be allowed.

 

Republicans are now using this language as a wedge between senior citizens and Democrats. Boehner and Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) issued a statement last week saying it “may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia” — even though the concept behind the provision has been embodied in federal law since 1990 and has been promoted by Republicans and Democrats for years.

 

On Thompson’s radio show, as well as in a New York Post op-ed and other interviews during the past week, McCaughey has said the provision requires senior citizens to submit to end-of-life consultations. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity touted the New York Post article on their shows. “Congress would make it mandatory, absolutely require, that every five years, people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner,” McCaughey said to Thompson.

 

HOLY CRAP! I dont want grampy to be put to death! SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!! Oh Wait, It doesnt say any of what they claim:

The provision would require Medicare to cover advanced care consultations for the first time, but it does not mandate individuals to take advantage of the benefit, proponents say. The consultations would take place between the patient and a doctor or nurse practitioner, not a government bureaucrat. And there would be no requirement for the individual to sign a directive or living will at the end of the discussion.

 

“This measure would not only help people make the best decisions for themselves but also better ensure that their wishes are followed,” AARP Executive Vice President John Rother said in a statement. “To suggest otherwise is a gross, and even cruel, distortion — especially for any family that has been forced to make the difficult decisions on care for loved ones approaching the end of their lives.”

 

Jon Keyserling, vice president for public policy and counsel at the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, said: “I was surprised that any responsible legislative analyst would indicate this is a mandatory provision. That is just a misreading of the language and, certainly, of the intent.”

 

Even AARP.. ya know... the people that want to help old people, say the new line of attack is a joke. And AARP would be the first to cry foul in a case like this.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[kapkomet]

Oh Good Lord:

GOP: Dem Health Care Proposal Promotes/Requires euthanasia

 

 

HOLY CRAP! I dont want grampy to be put to death! SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!! Oh Wait, It doesnt say any of what they claim:

 

 

Even AARP.. ya know... the people that want to help old people, say the new line of attack is a joke. And AARP would be the first to cry fowl in a case like this.

Yes, believe everything the Democrats tell you. We are going to cut costs, yet have much more "efficient" coverage of all things. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth, and anecdotal evidence in other "more civilized" (borrowing this liberal catch phrase) nations that offer government sponsored medicine shows AS A FACT that older people suffer in coverage. It MUST be lies, though, if "conservatives" say it's true.

[lostfan]

Yes, believe everything the Democrats tell you. We are going to cut costs, yet have much more "efficient" coverage of all things. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth, and anecdotal evidence in other "more civilized" (borrowing this liberal catch phrase) nations that offer government sponsored medicine shows AS A FACT that older people suffer in coverage. It MUST be lies, though, if "conservatives" say it's true.

Ok I'm trying to figure out what this has to with what AHB posted but I give up.

[kapkomet]

Ok I'm trying to figure out what this has to with what AHB posted but I give up.

GOP (and associated "conservative" orgainizations and sources) = liars on everything, gross distortions!

Democrats (and associated "liberal" organizations and sources) = the truth, they will give us everything we want, utopia for all!

[lostfan]

It sounds pretty clearly like disingenuous bulls*** to me.

[kapkomet]

It sounds pretty clearly like disingenuous bulls*** to me.

You know damn well that's AHB's schitck. Look at what he posted again. What the AARP is saying is bunk. They're liberal, they don't care about seniors, I don't give a s*** whether they take their money or not.

 

Of course I just mindlessly post "disingenuous bulls***".

[HuskyCaucasian]

GOP (and associated "conservative" orgainizations and sources) = liars on everything, gross distortions!

Democrats (and associated "liberal" organizations and sources) = the truth, they will give us everything we want, utopia for all!

That's really no where near the point I was trying to make, but whatever.

 

The point I was trying to make is the GOP is running some really nasty, our right lies, scare tactics to try and destroy healthcare reform/Obama. There are things to attack in the bill if you want, but dont try and make it sound like the Government is going to require all old people with an illness we be forced into a furnace.

[HuskyCaucasian]

You know damn well that's AHB's schitck. Look at what he posted again. What the AARP is saying is bunk. They're liberal, they don't care about seniors, I don't give a s*** whether they take their money or not.

AARP, the group formed to support and help seniors as they get old doesnt care about them?

[lostfan]

You know damn well that's AHB's schitck. Look at what he posted again. What the AARP is saying is bunk. They're liberal, they don't care about seniors, I don't give a s*** whether they take their money or not.

 

Of course I just mindlessly post "disingenuous bulls***".

Distorting the truth like that is a pretty standard political tactic because it's easier than actually having to explain stuff to people. s*** it's happened like 100 times in this thread already. It's not at all unfair to call them out on it.

[kapkomet]

That's really no where near the point I was trying to make, but whatever.

 

The point I was trying to make is the GOP is running some really nasty, our right lies, scare tactics to try and destroy healthcare reform/Obama. There are things to attack in the bill if you want, but dont try and make it sound like the Government is going to require all old people with an illness we be forced into a furnace.

And what the Democrats are proposing are FLAT OUT LIES. And that was my point. You want to charge that the GOP is "flat out lying", so are the Democrats.

 

"You will not lose your coverage if you're happy with it". Lie.

"Take a painkiller (if you're too old)" - Barack Obama

"You'll have choices for your health care". Lie. (at least not like today).

 

I can go on and on, but I'm disingenuous.

[bmags]

Kap, I certainly hope lithium is cheap in the new healthcare system.

[bmags]

ljbl

Edited July 29, 2009 by bmags

[Y2HH]

And what the Democrats are proposing are FLAT OUT LIES. And that was my point. You want to charge that the GOP is "flat out lying", so are the Democrats.

 

"You will not lose your coverage if you're happy with it". Lie.

"Take a painkiller (if you're too old)" - Barack Obama

"You'll have choices for your health care". Lie. (at least not like today).

 

I can go on and on, but I'm disingenuous.

 

You are my Soxtalk hero.

[bmags]

so why don't you all just counter him instead?

[Balta1701]

"You'll have choices for your health care". Lie. (at least not like today).

Because the Republican and Centrist position is you should not have a government choice in health care and the highly concentrated highly profitable near local monopolies currently in the system are the best way to go. Competition sucks and is anti-capitalist.

[southsider2k5]

Oh Good Lord:

GOP: Dem Health Care Proposal Promotes/Requires euthanasia

 

 

HOLY CRAP! I dont want grampy to be put to death! SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!! Oh Wait, It doesnt say any of what they claim:

 

 

Even AARP.. ya know... the people that want to help old people, say the new line of attack is a joke. And AARP would be the first to cry fowl in a case like this.

 

Why would they cry poultry?

[Balta1701]

Why would they cry poultry?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Why would they cry poultry?

Edited July 29, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[kapkomet]

Because the Republican and Centrist position is you should not have a government choice in health care and the highly concentrated highly profitable near local monopolies currently in the system are the best way to go. Competition sucks and is anti-capitalist.

Oh here we go. EVIL COMPANIES MAKING PROFITS! HOW DARE THEY!

 

Government comes in, has NO profit incentive, will cut prices, which causes the other companies to lose money, which shuts them down. But that's ok. Competition sucks, especially when said competition is ADMITTED to making these companies not profit to kill them.

 

We pay more in the world because we save more lives. PERIOD. But, for some reason, that doesn't matter, now does it? I'm sure the liberal blogs prove me wrong, even though it's common sense.

 

Heart patients - how many people do not have the heart attacks they would have had even 15 years ago because of medical advancements? Holy s***, those Europeans are on the cutting edge of technology - I'm sure they're the reason why innovations are up, right? Eh? Eh?

 

Cancer - I don't even have to delve into this one, because it's too obvious. If you have cancer in the rest of the world, you're a lot more likely to die. But now I'm certain the liberal blogs say I'm "fear mongering".

 

f*** profits. Everything should be given to the government to spread back to the nanny state. It's obviously the best solution to everything.

Edited July 29, 2009 by kapkomet

[BigSqwert]

Oh here we go. EVIL COMPANIES MAKING PROFITS! HOW DARE THEY!

 

We pay more in the world because we save more lives. PERIOD. But, for some reason, that doesn't matter, now does it? I'm sure the liberal blogs prove me wrong, even though it's common sense.

 

Heart patients - how many people do not have the heart attacks they would have had even 15 years ago because of medical advancements? Holy s***, those Europeans are on the cutting edge of technology - I'm sure they're the reason why innovations are up, right? Eh? Eh?

 

Cancer - I don't even have to delve into this one, because it's too obvious. If you have cancer in the rest of the world, you're a lot more likely to die. But now I'm certain the liberal blogs say I'm "fear mongering".

 

f*** profits. Everything should be given to the government to spread back to the nanny state. It's obviously the best solution to everything.

Why is the infant mortality rate so high in the US?

[kapkomet]

Why is the infant mortality rate so high in the US?

You have a moral high ground to talk about this when abortion is legal? Please. Next.

 

[BigSqwert]

You have a moral high ground to talk about this when abortion is legal? Please. Next.

WTF kind of response is that?

 

I'm talking about babies born that die, not fetuses.

Edited July 29, 2009 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

WTF kind of response is that?

You're (not you personally, people with the stance they have about abortion) like to throw that in people's faces. It's stupid - SO concerned about infant mortality rates when abortions kill millions. Ok. Don't even talk to me about that, because it's not worth my time.