Healthcare reform

[Balta1701]

I'm not disputing with the premise but I hate it when people use the word "terrorist" like that.

On that I'll agree too.

 

Although...the guys who are starting to twitter about bringing guns to the townhall meetings to teach SEIU a thing about the 2nd amendment...

[mr_genius]

Although...the guys who are starting to twitter about bringing guns to the townhall meetings to teach SEIU a thing about the 2nd amendment...

 

i can actually see that happening. the SEIU goons attacking people has raised the bar. i wouldn't be surprised to see some far right wing loon raise the bar another level.

[Balta1701]

i can actually see that happening. the SEIU goons attacking people has raised the bar. i wouldn't be surprised to see some far right wing loon raise the bar another level.

The left, FWIW, is insisting that it was the 912 project-ers who were out of line and who were the ones who raised the bar.

[Balta1701]

Just to give you an example of the messaging going out on the left:

Dear MoveOn member,

It's getting ugly out there.

 

All across the country, right-wing extremists are disrupting congressional town-hall meetings with venomous attacks on President Obama's plans for health care and clean energy.

 

• Last night in Tampa, Florida, a town hall meeting erupted into violence, with the police being called to break up fist fights and shoving matches.1

• A Texas Democrat was shouted down by right-wing hecklers, many of whom admitted they didn't even live in his district.2

• One North Carolina representative announced he wouldn't be holding any town-hall meetings after his office began receiving death threats.3

• And in Maryland, protesters hung a Democratic congressman in effigy to oppose health-care reform.4

 

We've got a plan to fight back against these radical right-wingers. We've hired skilled grassroots organizers who are working with thousands of local volunteers to show Congress that ordinary Americans continue to support President Obama's agenda for change. And we're building new online tools to track events across the country and make sure MoveOn members turn out at each one. (Ask for money, etc.)

[mr_genius]

The left, FWIW, is insisting that it was the 912 project-ers who were out of line and who were the ones who raised the bar.

 

i don't know what a 912 projecter is. i do know the Dems put out the word calling for a confrontation at these events.

 

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/...l#ixzz0NXcobUg4

 

“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

 

 

this is the first year into Obama's presidency. this is going to get worse. the dems already started literally punching in respose to town hall interruptions. this is just asking for bad news. i don't think far right wing guys are going to be backing down or running scared from the far left.

Edited August 7, 2009 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

i don't know what a 912 projecter is. i do know the Dems put out the word calling for a confrontation at these events.

I think that's Glenn Beck's people. Again, FWIW, they specifically said to stay civil and not be disruptive and violent. But not everyone bothers to heed that.

[mr_genius]

. Again, FWIW, they specifically said to stay civil and not be disruptive and violent. But not everyone bothers to heed that.

 

True. Kind of like Glenn Beck and his disclaimer: "now don't go do anything crazy". But Glenn Beck is a known loony toon, why would the white house lower itself to this type of stuff? This isn't a winning strat for the Democrats. This is playing into the far right's hand. They want a confrontation; they want to shoot a union guy in the head as he rages and attacks a protestor. In certain parts of the country the shooter might not even be convicted of anything. This type of situation is the far right wing's dream come true.

Edited August 8, 2009 by mr_genius

[Cknolls]

Over the past week we've seen videos of townhall meetings. And we've seen some loud opposition to the Dems plan currently put forth. But, I do not recall any violence occurring at ANY of those meetings UNTIL the GOONS fron the SEIU were summoned by the Dems. The first altercation occurred in Florida, and the second one occurred in St. Louis. Both involved SEIU. In the St. Louis meeting, Carnahan actually said the plan would result in a 6 billion dollar surplus for the gov't.

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Over the past week we've seen videos of townhall meetings. And we've seen some loud opposition to the Dems plan currently put forth. But, I do not recall any violence occurring at ANY of those meetings UNTIL the GOONS fron the SEIU were summoned by the Dems. The first altercation occurred in Florida, and the second one occurred in St. Louis. Both involved SEIU. In the St. Louis meeting, Carnahan actually said the plan would result in a 6 billion dollar surplus for the gov't.

 

Its the same thing they do on the picket lines to discourage companies from hiring non-union labor.

[Cknolls]

Its the same thing they do on the picket lines to discourage companies from hiring non-union labor.

 

 

Oh absolutely, and the gov't. is complicit with their actions, because they are never arrest anyone for intimidation on picket lines.

[Cknolls]

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/07/vide...nents-straight/

 

 

 

[mr_genius]

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/07/vide...nents-straight/

 

Obama is an idiot for calling out his SEIU union goons to attack people. Good to see the thugs being arrested at the end of the video.

[lostfan]

You guys are full of s*** if you think this is all caused ONLY by Democratic allies, unless you've been to every one of these town halls in their entirety.

[bmags]

no they are right on point. A Dem congressman wasn't assaulted before SEIU. Republicans are american.

[mr_genius]

Republicans are american.

 

acutally, one of the SEIU attackers defended his assault on some lone proester yelling "he attacked America!"

 

lol

[lostfan]

no they are right on point. A Dem congressman wasn't assaulted before SEIU. Republicans are american.

That Orwellian manipulation of language is really clever. Put together with certain half-truths and blatantly untrue things being repeated over and over until they are accepted as true and you have a really difficult time arguing.

[mr_genius]

That Orwellian manipulation of language is really clever. Put together with certain half-truths and blatantly untrue things being repeated over and over until they are accepted as true and you have a really difficult time arguing.

 

sounds more SEIU tactics to me.

 

i hope this doesn't qualify me for "he attacked America!" retaliation.

 

 

[Cknolls]

You guys are full of s*** if you think this is all caused ONLY by Democratic allies, unless you've been to every one of these town halls in their entirety.

 

 

Show me a link or some video footage of a Republican group doing the same as the union assholes and I will believe you.Oh...I forgot, Obama and his goons are never wrong are they? Prove that WE ARE FULL OF s***. I think the Obama and his apologists are the ones ......

 

 

[Balta1701]

Republican writer David Frum:

What would it mean to “win” the healthcare fight?

 

For some, the answer is obvious: beat back the president’s proposals, defeat the House bill, stand back and wait for 1994 to repeat itself.

 

The problem is that if we do that… we’ll still have the present healthcare system. Meaning that we’ll have (1) flat-lining wages, (2) exploding Medicaid and Medicare costs and thus immense pressure for future tax increases, (3) small businesses and self-employed individuals priced out of the insurance market, and (4) a lot of uninsured or underinsured people imposing costs on hospitals and local governments.

 

We’ll have entrenched and perpetuated some of the most irrational features of a hugely costly and under-performing system, at the expense of entrepreneurs and risk-takers, exactly the people the Republican party exists to champion.

 

Not a good outcome.

 

Even worse will be the way this fight is won: basically by convincing older Americans already covered by a government health program, Medicare, that Obama’s reform plans will reduce their coverage. In other words, we’ll have sent a powerful message to the entire political system to avoid at all hazards any tinkering with Medicare except to make it more generous for the already covered.

 

If we win, we’ll trumpet the success as a great triumph for liberty and individualism. Really though it will be a triumph for inertia. To the extent that anybody in the conservative world still aspires to any kind of future reform and improvement of America’s ossified government, that should be a very ashy victory indeed.

[bmags]

Show me a link or some video footage of a Republican group doing the same as the union assholes and I will believe you.Oh...I forgot, Obama and his goons are never wrong are they? Prove that WE ARE FULL OF s***. I think the Obama and his apologists are the ones ......

 

to start you off

 

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/05/freshman-dem-assaulted/

http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/d...een_threatened/

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...3.php?ref=fpblg

 

[lostfan]

Show me a link or some video footage of a Republican group doing the same as the union assholes and I will believe you.Oh...I forgot, Obama and his goons are never wrong are they? Prove that WE ARE FULL OF s***. I think the Obama and his apologists are the ones ......

lol, why are you pigeonholing me into some pro-Obama position when I never said anything like that? Did you know I actually lean towards opposing Obama's plan? If I wanted to "prove" that Republicans were just as disruptive as Democrats all I'd have to do is do a quick search on Politico, Salon, TPM, Huffpo, Dailykos, etc. for the last few days but bmags already partially did that for me. It's pretty clear just from browsing articles the past few days that people of all political stripes are being assholes and I'm kind of mystified that anyone could pretend otherwise with a straight face. It doesn't really matter who "started it" at this point, either. The entire debate has turned stupid.

Edited August 10, 2009 by lostfan

[StrangeSox]

So I just saw a commercial by the "60 plus committee" (anyone else watching Discovery?). I thought it was funny how they were talking about how awful government health care coverage will be while also talking about how great seniors' Medicare coverage is.

 

I have no faith in this country ever getting major reform of anything through the legislature.

[lostfan]

So I just saw a commercial by the "60 plus committee" (anyone else watching Discovery?). I thought it was funny how they were talking about how awful government health care coverage will be while also talking about how great seniors' Medicare coverage is.

 

I have no faith in this country ever getting major reform of anything through the legislature.

We are going to have a similar kind of argument when it comes time to try immigration reform.

 

Again.

Edited August 10, 2009 by lostfan

[mr_genius]

I thought it was funny how they were talking about how awful government health care coverage will be while also talking about how great seniors' Medicare coverage is.

 

yea, that sounds like a fairly unusual conclusion to reach. Seniors think that some of their government coverage will be reduced to pay for younger uninsured’s .

[mr_genius]

We are going to have a similar kind of argument when it comes time to try immigration reform.

 

oh man. i might actually join the tea party crew for that one.

Edited August 10, 2009 by mr_genius