Healthcare reform

[southsider2k5]

Here is the actual article

 

http://nrinstitute.org/mediamalpractice/?p=134

 

Why That 48 Million Uninsured Number is Wrong

 

A March 31 AP article entitled “Sebelius calls for action now on health care” repeats the claim, pushed by proponents of government run health care, that there are “48 million uninsured Americans”.

 

Numbers in the 40-million range regularly used by proponents of health care “reform” are based on reports from the Census Bureau which show, for example, over 45 million people “not covered” in 2007. However, these numbers are extremely misleading for several reasons, and the difference is critical not simply as a debating point but as a context for appropriate government policy changes.

 

* The Census Bureau itself says that “Health insurance coverage is likely to be underreported…” (See Appendix C of THIS report) For example, “16.9 percent of people with an MSIS record indicating Medicaid coverage reported…that they were uninsured.”

* According to Sally Pipes of the Pacific Research Institute, “as many as 12 million uninsured Americans are eligible for Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program–but they haven’t signed up.”

* More than half of the uninsured are between 18 and 34 years of age, a group which has relatively few expensive health issues and for whom self-insuring (paying their own medical bills) makes sense. Only 14% of people over the age of 55% are uninsured.

* Over 9 million of the “uninsured” have household incomes over $75,000.

* Roughly 30% of the uninsured are without insurance for less than 6 months (though this statistic will likely worsen during the current recession).

* And finally, estimates are that between 7.5 million to over 10 million of the uninsured (15% of them or more) are illegal immigrants.

 

The number of chronically uninsured people who would prefer to have insurance but can’t afford it is likely 10-12 million people, or one quarter of the number often repeated by the media. Reporters who cite the 48 million number without providing a full context do their readers a great disservice.

[jasonxctf]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/...n-or-8-million/

 

thanks for the link.. did you read the article to realize why its unreliable?

 

The figure has been disseminated by the Pacific Research Institute, a conservative think tank that opposes the Obama administration's push for health-care reform.

 

The Verdict: In dispute — but most researchers who study health care issues rely on the Census Bureau's figures.

 

[jasonxctf]

is their a non-partisan company who shows the same numbers?

 

I'd also like to point out that the Census Bureau info is from the Bush Administration too. So you can't even argue to say that Obama's people played with the numbers.

 

The latest Census Bureau survey was published in 2008, based on data gathered in 2007. That survey does not take into account effects of the current recession, which officially began in December 2007.

 

Edited August 23, 2009 by jasonxctf

[southsider2k5]

thanks for the link.. did you read the article to realize why its unreliable?

 

The figure has been disseminated by the Pacific Research Institute, a conservative think tank that opposes the Obama administration's push for health-care reform.

 

The Verdict: In dispute — but most researchers who study health care issues rely on the Census Bureau's figures.

 

Has anyone proved them wrong, other than by association that is?

[kapkomet]

Holy s***. EVERYBODY's biased, unless it fits your point of view... geesh. What the hell do we even have this god-damned forum for if no one believes ANYTHING the "other side" says?

[Balta1701]

Holy s***. EVERYBODY's biased, unless it fits your point of view... geesh. What the hell do we even have this god-damned forum for if no one believes ANYTHING the "other side" says?

So we get called out for using any data at all from any group on the left, and when we return the favor, it's always different?

[kapkomet]

So we get called out for using any data at all from any group on the left, and when we return the favor, it's always different?

The census is SO BIASED. Right.

 

It's tiresome.

 

About the only two sources that aren't really biased is the census (until ACORN gets ahold of it) and the CBO (until Obama meets with them to tell them to use his numbers).

 

 

[southsider2k5]

So we get called out for using any data at all from any group on the left, and when we return the favor, it's always different?

 

So you should be very happy that I said there was no bias and asked for independant verification, just like the left always does.

[Balta1701]

The census is SO BIASED. Right.

 

It's tiresome.

 

About the only two sources that aren't really biased is the census (until ACORN gets ahold of it) and the CBO (until Obama meets with them to tell them to use his numbers).

I'm pretty sure you folks are the ones who are arguing that the census count isn't the accurate representation of the uninsured.

[kapkomet]

I'm pretty sure you folks are the ones who are arguing that the census count isn't the accurate representation of the uninsured.

No, I don't think so. Unless I don't remember something, which sure as hell can be the case.

[StrangeSox]

Holy s***. EVERYBODY's biased, unless it fits your point of view... geesh. What the hell do we even have this god-damned forum for if no one believes ANYTHING the "other side" says?

 

"Thinktanks", by definition, are useless sources of information. Expecting an objective analysis out of one is like expecting the Vatican to ever say anything negative about Roman Catholicism. They're completely beholden to an ideology.

[kapkomet]

"Thinktanks", by definition, are useless sources of information. Expecting an objective analysis out of one is like expecting the Vatican to ever say anything negative about Roman Catholicism. They're completely beholden to an ideology.

The census is not a think tank.

 

[StrangeSox]

The census is not a think tank.

 

I wasn't referring to the census data. I already explained why the 45M number is overstated. I'm in agreement with you on that one.

 

edit: really, it looks like you missed ss2k5's post that was an article relying on some conservative "think tank" (read: ideological apologetics) said.

Edited August 24, 2009 by StrangeSox

[jasonxctf]

the rule of thumb needs to be, if you have "data" provided by a party with an agenda with the issue, it needs to be verified by an independent source.

 

to blindly quote numbers that are provided by conservative think tank (or liberal ones) whose agenda is to oppose the same public policy issue they are reporting on, is irresponsible.

 

There are plenty of institutions or independent (public or private) bodies who can verify your research to be accurate or fictional.

[kapkomet]

I wasn't referring to the census data. I already explained why the 45M number is overstated. I'm in agreement with you on that one.

 

edit: really, it looks like you missed ss2k5's post that was an article relying on some conservative "think tank" (read: ideological apologetics) said.

Gotcha. I see what you mean now.

[southsider2k5]

the rule of thumb needs to be, if you have "data" provided by a party with an agenda with the issue, it needs to be verified by an independent source.

 

to blindly quote numbers that are provided by conservative think tank (or liberal ones) whose agenda is to oppose the same public policy issue they are reporting on, is irresponsible.

 

There are plenty of institutions or independent (public or private) bodies who can verify your research to be accurate or fictional.

 

Like I said... it hasn't been disproved yet either. Which is pretty important with the health gestapo asking you to call the White House.

[jasonxctf]

come on...

 

that's like saying, no one has disproved that the reason we haven't been attacked since 9-11 is because I bought a glass horse statue in Venice so it must be true.

[Texsox]

If the numbers are large, it shows what a big, and costly problem this is. If the numbers are low, it shows this is not as big and issue and will be cheaper with a smaller impact on the system. So either side would have their point added and subtracted from.

 

Bottom line, the lack of health care for so many Americans is much more likely to negatively affect their lifespan before another terrorist attack or other such event that we invest out tax money to.

[southsider2k5]

come on...

 

that's like saying, no one has disproved that the reason we haven't been attacked since 9-11 is because I bought a glass horse statue in Venice so it must be true.

 

So basically you are saying that everyone someone just cries "liberal" bias is enough to discount a story. Got it.

[Texsox]

So basically you are saying that everyone someone just cries "liberal" bias is enough to discount a story. Got it.

 

Of conservative bias. I think we have all read enough quotes around here to know fact from fiction, but some still sneak by.

[HuskyCaucasian]

White House To GOP: We're Gonna Do Reform With Or Without You

After fruitlessly seeking a bipartisan compromise on health care reform for months, the White House seems to have finally realized that Republicans have no interest in compromising and that progressives are fed up with making nice. Now, the administration is preparing to go it alone, even if that means passing reform on a straight party-line vote.

 

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, and even President Obama himself have all suggested that they don't think the GOP is serious about reaching a bipartisan health care reform compromise--and with key Republicans suggesting that they'll vote against a bill that doesn't also have the support of a majority of their own party, it's only one logical step to the conclusion that the administration has accepted that health care reform will be the latest initiative to move forward along party lines.

 

Over the weekend an anonymous source told Bloomberg that the White House is "devising a strategy to pass a measure by relying only on the Democratic majority in each house of Congress."

[Texsox]

I really hope all sides keep fighting. As long as the compromise isn't let's all get what we want, it will be better.

[kapkomet]

White House To GOP: We're Gonna Do Reform With Or Without You

Which is what they were going to do all along. This is no surprise. It's still proven that the majority of the country doesn't want this, and they are going to shove it right down our throat.

 

[Texsox]

Which is what they were going to do all along. This is no surprise. It's still proven that the majority of the country doesn't want this, and they are going to shove it right down our throat.

 

The problem I have with these polls is no one can define what "it" will be.

[Cknolls]

proof that the number isnt 45 million?