Healthcare reform

[Rex Kickass]

It has nothing to do with public employee unions and their pension costs. Not just Cally. Illinois needs to reform too. I hear no one talk about this problem. 3% colas every year,in ILLINOIS, without regard to the underlying economy? Good policy. You want to retire after a certain amount of years, and then take another job, you do not receive your pension until you turn 65, just like Social Security. You take your pension early, you take a reduced amount, just like Social Security. You work in several levels of gov't., you receive one pension. That's the argument people will make, right, these peolple have no Social Security. So make the pension system like social security.

 

Except the problem with that is that you can't retroactively adjust terms of a pension like that. Coupled the fact that most people who put into the Illinois pension plans twenty, thirty years ago are not enrolled in Social Security.

[bmags]

tort reform:

 

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...h-care-bill.php

 

I didn't really understand how this could be done federally, anyways, but yeah they giving state grants.

[StrangeSox]

Yet 45% would consider quitting if congress gets its way.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/A....aspx?id=506199

 

IBD's poll is so s***ty its not even worth comment.

 

For perspective, they're the same people that said Steven Hawking would be dead under government health care.

[bmags]

IBD's poll is so s***ty its not even worth comment.

 

For perspective, they're the same people that said Steven Hawking would be dead under government health care.

 

No, better, they said if Stephen Hawking was British and subject to NHS health care his brilliance would not have existed.

[StrangeSox]

Nate Silver broke down the problems with this poll.

 

Really, shouldn't "45% of doctors would quit" jump out and say "something is wrong with my polling"? Unless fervent libertarianism is overrepresented in the doctor population.

[chunk23]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...sc=fb&cc=fp

 

Lots of support for the public option in this poll.

 

edit: although everyone should be fighting against the Baucus bill, it's terrible.

Edited September 17, 2009 by chunk23

[Texsox]

Nate Silver broke down the problems with this poll.

 

Really, shouldn't "45% of doctors would quit" jump out and say "something is wrong with my polling"? Unless fervent libertarianism is overrepresented in the doctor population.

 

After a decade of school, $$$,$$$.$$ in medical school costs, I'm going to quit if anything changes.

 

Sorry, but I am just not believing we will see double digit, or even large single digit defections. Perhaps a rise in early retirements, but I just do not see Doctors suddenly quitting to become MonaVie independent sales consultants.

[kapkomet]

After a decade of school, $$$,$$$.$$ in medical school costs, I'm going to quit if anything changes.

 

Sorry, but I am just not believing we will see double digit, or even large single digit defections. Perhaps a rise in early retirements, but I just do not see Doctors suddenly quitting to become MonaVie independent sales consultants.

In the small sample size I know, I would say this might be reality - there's a lot of docs that I have heard say they'd cut way back or just get out altogether. But that's a small sample.

[Texsox]

In the small sample size I know, I would say this might be reality - there's a lot of docs that I have heard say they'd cut way back or just get out altogether. But that's a small sample.

 

That's easy to say. But what are they going to do? Are they really going to give up the lifestyle and prestige to become ??? It's really easy to say I'd quit if they did that, it is another thing to actually quit. Hell, who here hasn't made some statement like that? Name an industry segment that would hire that many Doctors?

[southsider2k5]

After a decade of school, $$$,$$$.$$ in medical school costs, I'm going to quit if anything changes.

 

Sorry, but I am just not believing we will see double digit, or even large single digit defections. Perhaps a rise in early retirements, but I just do not see Doctors suddenly quitting to become MonaVie independent sales consultants.

 

So if you were told that you were going to be looking at a 30% cut in your wages, plus a huge increase in your workload, you would just go along with it?

[Texsox]

So if you were told that you were going to be looking at a 30% cut in your wages, plus a huge increase in your workload, you would just go along with it?

 

First, off, I do not believe the final plan will result in that big of a cut.

But even if something that drastic occurred, will they quit and take an even bigger pay cut? What will any of those Doctors do to maintain their wages and life style? And depending on when this happens, where in this economy will they go? Financial services? Sales? Medical research? Possibly. I just do not see where their options are to quit and maintain anywhere near their salaries.

 

And perhaps we should look at their salaries like we looked at the auto industry. Their wages are too high, benefit packages too generous, for their industry to survive, and like those well paid auto workers, the end is here.

[StrangeSox]

First, off, I do not believe the final plan will result in that big of a cut.

But even if something that drastic occurred, will they quit and take an even bigger pay cut? What will any of those Doctors do to maintain their wages and life style? And depending on when this happens, where in this economy will they go? Financial services? Sales? Medical research? Possibly. I just do not see where their options are to quit and maintain anywhere near their salaries.

 

And perhaps we should look at their salaries like we looked at the auto industry. Their wages are too high, benefit packages too generous, for their industry to survive, and like those well paid auto workers, the end is here.

 

I think its the libertarian fantasy of "going Galt," which, at least in the novel, needs a utopia and a perpetual energy machine to work.

 

Doctors aren't in unions, so its impossible for them to be making too much. Only union members make too much.

[Texsox]

Doctors aren't in unions, so its impossible for them to be making too much. Only union members make too much.

 

I certainly believe in the concept. It is the implementation where there are a few snags. While not a Union, the insurance companies have created a price list for Doctors. So in a real sense, there are already curbs on what they can earn. They can charge market prices for those without medical insurance, which is part of our way of life. But then their patients can also choose to ban together to dictate prices. Interesting market at work.

[southsider2k5]

First, off, I do not believe the final plan will result in that big of a cut.

But even if something that drastic occurred, will they quit and take an even bigger pay cut? What will any of those Doctors do to maintain their wages and life style? And depending on when this happens, where in this economy will they go? Financial services? Sales? Medical research? Possibly. I just do not see where their options are to quit and maintain anywhere near their salaries.

 

And perhaps we should look at their salaries like we looked at the auto industry. Their wages are too high, benefit packages too generous, for their industry to survive, and like those well paid auto workers, the end is here.

 

Call me silly, but I think we need auto workers less than we need doctors. I worry a little bit more about artificial caps on doctors than I do artificial floors for union workers.

[jasonxctf]

In the small sample size I know, I would say this might be reality - there's a lot of docs that I have heard say they'd cut way back or just get out altogether. But that's a small sample.

 

 

Nate Silver hit the nail on the head.

 

After your polls show that John McCain was going to beat Obama on the Youth Vote by 72-27% margin... you're pretty much typecasted as an unreliable pollster for life.

[Texsox]

Call me silly, but I think we need auto workers less than we need doctors. I worry a little bit more about artificial caps on doctors than I do artificial floors for union workers.

 

I agree, but we disagree on the definition of "we". The difference seems to be that some of us believe everyone should have access to a Doctor and others believe only those able to pay for a Doctor should have access.

 

But an industry is an industry and I believe you have lectured, accurately I may say, that economic forces work the same in medicine as in other fields. I'm thinking of several of your posts on supply and demand specifically and a few others in a more general way. So if the auto industry needed worker pay cuts to remain viable, could that not be true for medical as well?

 

And again, and in a very sincere way, where else is a Doctor going to come even within 75% of their current salaries? Teaching? Medical research? How many would find jobs close to what they were earning?

 

I would think their are many autoworkers that worked those jobs for the money, I worry that we have 45% of the Doctors working for the money.

[bmags]

Tort reform Tort reform Tort reform!

 

(tort reform)

 

crickets....

[Cknolls]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125314896131518267.html

 

 

I love Schakowsky"s response. Insufficient VETTING by the WHITE HOUSE. LMAO.....There's a first.

[bmags]

so the heart of the story was correct and was TWO examples of GOVERNMENT needing to step in to get them treatment and we mock it...haha. awesome.

[Cknolls]

so the heart of the story was correct and was TWO examples of GOVERNMENT needing to step in to get them treatment and we mock it...haha. awesome.

 

 

Yeah the guy died 4 YEARS later. we all f***ing die. How did he get the stem cell transplant? And who paid for it?...Oh yeah, HIS INSURANCE.

 

 

Ah yes Messiah is always right.

 

[StrangeSox]

Yeah the guy died 4 YEARS later. we all f***ing die. How did he get the stem cell transplant? And who paid for it?...Oh yeah, HIS INSURANCE.

 

Oh, sure, they paid AFTER THE GOVERNMENT PRESSURED THEM.

[Cknolls]

Oh, sure, they paid AFTER THE GOVERNMENT PRESSURED THEM.

 

 

 

Details details.

[southsider2k5]

Here we go...

 

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/ho...amp;newsLang=en

 

The important part?

 

Among the full survey group, employers expect they would respond to a pay-or-play mandate in the following ways:

 

* 37% of employers would provide company-sponsored health coverage that substantially exceeds the standard.

* 29% of employers would discontinue company-sponsored health coverage and pay the assessment if the per-employee costs of payments to the federal government were substantially lower than their current costs.

* 26% of employers would provide company-sponsored health coverage at the level of the minimum standard required.

 

Also that 87% would reduce coverage if costs increased because of this plan.

[Balta1701]

Also that 87% would reduce coverage if costs increased because of this plan.

So presumably that means that over the next 5 years if nothing is done and costs continue rising at 8% a year, 87% of employers are going to reduce coverage anyway?

[kapkomet]

A big part that doesn't get mentioned about this "overhaul" is self paid insurance. It plays a big part in this, and by this, we should see 60% reduction in coverage, more or less.

 

Quality going up + more coverage (preexisting, etc. - which is a farce anyway) cost savings, period. It's common sense, despite the political stat nerds that I see quoted here all the time.