Healthcare reform

[Balta1701]

It is patently absurd to blame Obama or Bush for slowness of getting out flu vaccines.

Actually I can come up with a totally valid reason for doing so. The flu vaccine production system has been desperately in need of modernization for years, decades probably. There are new technologies that could be applied that would likely produce vaccine faster or cheaper. But because the flu vaccine isn't hugely profitable like, you know, drugs that help you have sex, there's no money going from the private sector into developing new production methods. At some point, the government either ought to step in and pay to upgrade the system or the government ought to mandate that someone else should pay for it. But instead, we get viagra. Lots and lots of viagra. And commercials for it.

 

Anyway, that's a different rant.

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually I can come up with a totally valid reason for doing so. The flu vaccine production system has been desperately in need of modernization for years, decades probably. There are new technologies that could be applied that would likely produce vaccine faster or cheaper. But because the flu vaccine isn't hugely profitable like, you know, drugs that help you have sex, there's no money going from the private sector into developing new production methods. At some point, the government either ought to step in and pay to upgrade the system or the government ought to mandate that someone else should pay for it. But instead, we get viagra. Lots and lots of viagra. And commercials for it.

 

Anyway, that's a different rant.

That isn't a valid reason for blaming the President. That's a valid reason for blaming the drug companies.

 

[Balta1701]

That isn't a valid reason for blaming the President. That's a valid reason for blaming the drug companies.

Well, I can take it one step further and note that it's a symptom of the problem that is a private, for-profit health care system; if something's not extremely profitable (i.e. e.d. drugs) then there's no money going in to it, which is exactly the system we've decided so far that we want in this country. That is a public policy decision, and it was the explicit policy of the last administration.

 

Anyway, yeah I'm stretching, but this is one of those things I think is actually really important in the health care debate so I do like to highlight it. The Pharmaceutical companies waste enormous sums on finding ways around patent protections, on commercials trying to sell people drugs they don't really need, etc., and meanwhile research funds for things that might legitimately help people, cut costs, or save lives has for the most part dried up because doing those things isn't as profitable. This is a key flaw in the private system.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, I can take it one step further and note that it's a symptom of the problem that is a private, for-profit health care system; if something's not extremely profitable (i.e. e.d. drugs) then there's no money going in to it, which is exactly the system we've decided so far that we want in this country. That is a public policy decision, and it was the explicit policy of the last administration.

 

Anyway, yeah I'm stretching, but this is one of those things I think is actually really important in the health care debate so I do like to highlight it. The Pharmaceutical companies waste enormous sums on finding ways around patent protections, on commercials trying to sell people drugs they don't really need, etc., and meanwhile research funds for things that might legitimately help people, cut costs, or save lives has for the most part dried up because doing those things isn't as profitable. This is a key flaw in the private system.

I don't disagree that the profit motivation and the public health motivations don't always work well together, and that should be addressed. I jsut disagree that this is "Obama's fault" or "Bush's fault".

 

[Balta1701]

I don't disagree that the profit motivation and the public health motivations don't always work well together, and that should be addressed. I jsut disagree that this is "Obama's fault" or "Bush's fault".

Well, it is the closest I could come to blaming it on politics.

[kapkomet]

Well, it is the closest I could come to blaming it on politics.

It's not anyone's political fault, but don't be stupid enough to promise 80 million vaccines if it cannot be done. This fits his "I will fix the world's issues" mantra all too well.

[Balta1701]

It's not anyone's political fault, but don't be stupid enough to promise 80 million vaccines if it cannot be done. This fits his "I will fix the world's issues" mantra all too well.

It will be done. It'll just be done by Jan 1 because the virus took a little longer to culture.

[kapkomet]

It will be done. It'll just be done by Jan 1 because the virus took a little longer to culture.

You're missing the point I was trying to make, but that's ok, because it's not really important. Yea, it'll get done.

[Cknolls]

It is patently absurd to blame Obama or Bush for slowness of getting out flu vaccines.

\

 

I am not. I am blaming the inefficiency of gov't in general.

[Y2HH]

The problem is you needed this vaccine months ago...getting it now won't help much, since by the time your body builds the necessary antibodies, you'll have probably contracted the very thing you were attempting to combat.

 

And blaming drug companies for this is ridiculous. No, it's beyond that. If it wasn't for the private drug companies, most of the modern medications that exist...wouldn't exist, because the governments ability to "innovate" would have never produced them. And for every Viagra you know about because it's advertised in sports, there are hundreds of other breakthrough medications given daily at your local hospital that help people a lot more than their predecessor did. The very reason these medications exist is because of the private sector and the competition therein, and let's ignore the BILLIONS of R&D money each of these drug companies pours into this. Removing them from the equation will not suddenly fix the drug issues the world faces, nor will it suddenly spawn the perfect number of vaccines on time...oh, and it sure as hell wouldn't innovate anything...so all you'd end up with is a larger supply of old drugs and almost nothing new in the pipeline. Our government is only good at searching for answers or solutions AFTER the issue arises or the hard question is asked of them...which is too late.

 

The biggest issue with the private/public and any other "sector" is in the "Trek" solution. Until the worlds drive to acquire wealth is curbed and completely eliminated, this is how the system works, and it works like this WORLDWIDE. The government doesn't do anything for free, either...the people who work for government get paid...the government itself as an entity gets paid, etc. Until the acquisition of wealth is removed from the equation, this is how it IS and how it will continue to be. Blaming people for working in and with the system is ridiculous, and governments don't have the answer to this problem, either. Nobody does things for free, because everything costs money. Eliminate the money factor and maybe...just maybe, we are on our way to a solution for all mankind.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Y2HH

[Cknolls]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28788.html

 

Laughing at this, because Schumer was on T.V yesterday saying Reid is the best vote counter there is. Yeah after losing 13 of his own on the Doc fix vote last week, he sure is..

[bmags]

Oh hey joe, remember when you campaigned for the Republican candidate, and were still given all of your leadership positions...Oh, well we're stripping them.

 

We'll see how his vote changes then.

[Rex Kickass]

Oh hey joe, remember when you campaigned for the Republican candidate, and were still given all of your leadership positions...Oh, well we're stripping them.

 

We'll see how his vote changes then.

 

It really should happen to him at this point. If he wants to be a Republican, he should just be a Republican.

[kapkomet]

It really should happen to him at this point. If he wants to be a Republican, he should just be a Republican.

Laughable once again. Same for Olympia Snowe. Susan Collins. Alan Spector (oh wait...).

 

[bmags]

no one gets your bad jokes kap

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Seemed pretty obvious to me...

[Y2HH]

I got it.

[bmags]

you realize that lieberman is an I in the dem caucus, given leadership positions because of this?

[StrangeSox]

Hey guys anyone else taking prescription medicine for thicker eyelashes?

[StrangeSox]

The problem is you needed this vaccine months ago...getting it now won't help much, since by the time your body builds the necessary antibodies, you'll have probably contracted the very thing you were attempting to combat.

 

And blaming drug companies for this is ridiculous. No, it's beyond that. If it wasn't for the private drug companies, most of the modern medications that exist...wouldn't exist, because the governments ability to "innovate" would have never produced them. And for every Viagra you know about because it's advertised in sports, there are hundreds of other breakthrough medications given daily at your local hospital that help people a lot more than their predecessor did. The very reason these medications exist is because of the private sector and the competition therein, and let's ignore the BILLIONS of R&D money each of these drug companies pours into this. Removing them from the equation will not suddenly fix the drug issues the world faces, nor will it suddenly spawn the perfect number of vaccines on time...oh, and it sure as hell wouldn't innovate anything...so all you'd end up with is a larger supply of old drugs and almost nothing new in the pipeline. Our government is only good at searching for answers or solutions AFTER the issue arises or the hard question is asked of them...which is too late.

 

The biggest issue with the private/public and any other "sector" is in the "Trek" solution. Until the worlds drive to acquire wealth is curbed and completely eliminated, this is how the system works, and it works like this WORLDWIDE. The government doesn't do anything for free, either...the people who work for government get paid...the government itself as an entity gets paid, etc. Until the acquisition of wealth is removed from the equation, this is how it IS and how it will continue to be. Blaming people for working in and with the system is ridiculous, and governments don't have the answer to this problem, either. Nobody does things for free, because everything costs money. Eliminate the money factor and maybe...just maybe, we are on our way to a solution for all mankind.

 

Without the NIH and it's funding and grants, we wouldn't have most of the medical advances we do.

 

Oh, and let's not forget the BILLIONS in basic research done in universities and government labs that it's all based on, too.

[Balta1701]

Without the NIH and it's funding and grants, we wouldn't have most of the medical advances we do.

 

Oh, and let's not forget the BILLIONS in basic research done in universities and government labs that it's all based on, too.

The reality is we're actually getting the exact same scenario that he's threatening us with as the horrible end. Drug companies have been churning out fewer and fewer drugs from year to year over the past decade, and its not because patent laws have gotten stricter or anything. It's because they've basically focused on coming up with only the highest profitable drugs and products, things that aren't actually cures for anything but give you lifetime treatments that you can get a whole lot of people, preferably on Medicare (Since they can afford it) taking for a period of decades. There's no profit in developing a vaccine for AIDS, or modernizing the flu vaccine system. There's lots of profit in finding a way to keep your E.D. treatment behind a patent wall. Those billiions in R&D he talks about go to the drugs you see on TV, not to the things that might benefit society the most.

[kapkomet]

The reality is we're actually getting the exact same scenario that he's threatening us with as the horrible end. Drug companies have been churning out fewer and fewer drugs from year to year over the past decade, and its not because patent laws have gotten stricter or anything. It's because they've basically focused on coming up with only the highest profitable drugs and products, things that aren't actually cures for anything but give you lifetime treatments that you can get a whole lot of people, preferably on Medicare (Since they can afford it) taking for a period of decades. There's no profit in developing a vaccine for AIDS, or modernizing the flu vaccine system. There's lots of profit in finding a way to keep your E.D. treatment behind a patent wall. Those billiions in R&D he talks about go to the drugs you see on TV, not to the things that might benefit society the most.

You're talking out of your ass. There's a ton of research that's done for billions and billions for all sorts of stuff, not just viagra and cialis. But, it sounds good to attack whatever the immoral justice of Amerika is for the day, right? Greedy ass health care system.

[StrangeSox]

Kap, there's now prescription medication to grow thicker eyelashes. They invent diseases like Restless Leg Syndrome and then sell you the cure. You cannot argue that the profits incentivize the wrong things some times.

[kapkomet]

Kap, there's now prescription medication to grow thicker eyelashes. They invent diseases like Restless Leg Syndrome and then sell you the cure. You cannot argue that the profits incentivize the wrong things some times.

Sometimes, sure. But there's a ton of crap that never gets talked about that gets demonized for the few that bastardize the process for the benefit of cancer, heart disease and other major ailments.

[Y2HH]

And for the record, many drug companies are ACTIVELY working on AIDS vaccines, amongst others, which someone above claimed they'd never do, simply because they're not profitable. Because they read some report claiming this, no doubt.

 

Bristol Myers is working on one.

 

Glaxo is working on one.

 

Bionor is working on one.

 

GeoVax is working on one.

 

I don't feel like looking further, but I'm sure Merck, Schering and many others are working on them, too.

 

And because someone invented a drug that helps you grow thicker eyelashes, let's disregard the multitude of other very helpful drugs they've invented. Many of which I guarantee you, your family and your friends have used MANY times over the years to get better when very ill.

 

Ridiculous.

 

Do me a favor, next time you get really sick, and I'm not talking a flu, I'm talking REALLY sick, don't take the drugs from these evil bastard companies, see if the US govt has an alternative of their own and use that instead, or even better, see if you can get a foreign Indian or Chinese made drug and use that. I ask this of you because then you've be walking the walk...standing up and fighting the good fight, this would show us how committed you are to destroying the "evil drug companies" instead of filling their coffers. When you do that, I'll say you have a leg to stand on when arguing against these evil bastard profiteering companies.