Healthcare reform

[Balta1701]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/a...s_n_380130.html

Don't worry. Those people will just get health insurance elsewhere. I'm sure the other insurers will be thrilled to insure them.

[lostfan]

My older brother had gone on a couple of annoying rants about how unemployed people don't deserve insurance coverage, it was the market at work, that they should all have jobs and they wouldn't have this problem etc. you know, the usual talking points about how everything's fine, and if someone can't afford insurance it's all their fault. Well a couple weeks ago he has an unforeseen medical emergency and stayed at the hospital several days and racked up medical bills, but guess who doesn't have insurance and now is buried in debt?

 

Obviously I'm very relieved he's okay but he's been knocked off the high horse for a little while.

[BigSqwert]

I didn't know you and Kap were brothers.

[lostfan]

Yeah on my dad's side of the family

Edited December 7, 2009 by lostfan

[kapkomet]

I didn't know you and Kap were brothers.

Yea, because I have EVER said that.

 

[BigSqwert]

Yea, because I have EVER said that.

Oh lighten up sparky.

[lostfan]

Yea, because I have EVER said that.

We're just f***ing with you.

 

For the record the difference between you and my brother is that the things you say and believe are intellectually defensible. At some point in his adult life my brother became a dittohead. He's the only one in the family and I can't save him. /facepalm

[Texsox]

I didn't know you and Kap were brothers.

lostfan is a brother, Kap can't jump

 

BTW, one of SS best concerns was having a few million new patients jumping into the system. I heard yesterday on NPR that some of these proposals will be phased in over the next three years. Seems like a smart decision.

[kapkomet]

lostfan is a brother, Kap can't jump

 

BTW, one of SS best concerns was having a few million new patients jumping into the system. I heard yesterday on NPR that some of these proposals will be phased in over the next three years. Seems like a smart decision.

Why? Because Obama needs to get re-elected before GOVERNMENT health care kicks in.

 

This bill doesn't phase in s***. It kicks the taxes up immediately and puts the government "option" in 2013. What an interesting year... "it's just to make sure we get this right"... my ass.

 

[jasonxctf]

www.fivethirtyeight.com

 

Although the GOP's coalition is still the more monochromatic of the two parties, is it possible that they, rather than the Democrats, are now the party paralyzed by identity politics? A recent 60 Minutes segment about the costs of end-of-life care suggests that maybe they are. I would encourage people to read/watch the report in full, but if you don’t have time let me explain what I mean.

 

The segment is about the needless financial costs of end-of-life care. The US government spends about $50B each year on patients at the very end of their lives, much of it to little or no health or quality-of-life benefit. Because a lot of the procedures and medicines are authorized by doctors and hospitals worried about possible liability—pay attention now, tort-reform advocates—a lot of this money is being spent in medically-needless ways and thus ineffective because the treatments are unnecessary. Worse, because a lot of these procedures and medicines are administered by hospitals, where costs are higher--as NPR’s fantastic Planet Money team recently explained--these ineffective actions are also procured inefficiently. In short, it's wasteful, which is bad enough, but expensively wasteful to boot. But because Medicare is there to pick up the tab, the disincentives against ordering irrelevant, expensive treatments are few.

 

Now, given that conservatives keep complaining about tort reform as if that were some miracle cure to our health care costs; given that they are also up in arms about rising government socialism (“one-sixth of the economy!”); and given their broader worries about government growth and spending more generally, we might reasonably conclude that Medicare—one the largest and fastest-growing programs in the entire budget—would sit atop their target list. Instead, Republicans point at Democrats in Congress and the White House and charge that they and they health care reform plans must be stopped because (a) they are going to cut seniors’ Medicare; and (B) they are going to institute “death panels” to pull the plug on seniors.

 

In other words, although the end-of-life use of Medicare is a government problem that violates almost every philosophy they espouse about the proper role of government—public sector over private; easily exploited by, rather than protected from, trial lawyers; a moral hazard, consequence-free billing system as opposed to rational, need-based spending; a program with rising outlays as opposed to slow or zero growth outlays—Medicare is instead the very program they are rallying behind.

 

And why? For votes—specifically the votes of those angry, mostly-white seniors upon whom they are betting their electoral fortunes in 2010 and beyond. In short, the GOP has now become so wedded to its dying, white majority that it is willing to sacrifice not only good public policy and smart long-term budgeting, but its very own core principles. Their politically-motivated, 180-degree defense of Medicare and their inflammatory rhetoric about death panels proves that the GOP is now the party paralyzed by identity politics.

[southsider2k5]

Is there much more inflammatory rhetoric than slavery comparisons in this debate?

[kapkomet]

This is a load of s***.

 

Medicare, by any GOP person with any sense, is a program that has to exist as it is for today's seniors. It cannot be gutted in the next two to four years as the Democrats propose to do.

 

But, there has to be reform here - they need to phase people out of the program and end it.

 

Essentially, the Democrats are shuffling money from one program to another so they can claim "budget nuetral", which is (again) a load of s***.

 

As far as the "death panels" - the point here is that the government, if they are going to control health care, shouldn't control the individual regarding death matters. It's too easy to just "pull the plug" (read NUMEROUS stories in Britian and Canada ... and don't hand me the load of s*** that we're not trying for their system, they are... maybe not specifically right now, but it's the utopia they will get one they put the "option" on the table). All of these decisions should be made by individuals and their lawyers and/or doctors, not some beaurocratic CPT code machine on the end of the government tape.

 

[kapkomet]

Is there much more inflammatory rhetoric than slavery comparisons in this debate?

Harry Reid is the biggest douchebag asshole ever to be a majority leader. And he has s*** for brains, quite literally.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Harry Reid is the biggest douchebag asshole ever to be a majority leader. And he has s*** for brains, quite literally.

I thought there were rules in place on this forum for saying things like this?

[lostfan]

I thought there were rules in place on this forum for saying things like this?

To each other yeah, but I think only divine intervention will keep Kap from making ridiculous statements.

[kapkomet]

To each other yeah, but I think only divine intervention will keep Kap from making ridiculous statements.

It's not ridiculous. Do you want to throw your support behind this asshole?

[kapkomet]

OHHHHHHH COMPROMISE! Good grief.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_...h_care_overhaul

 

Instead of a public option, we will now have an option for the public.

 

[Y2HH]

OHHHHHHH COMPROMISE! Good grief.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_...h_care_overhaul

 

Instead of a public option, we will now have an option for the public.

 

I love how everyone feels Kap's statements are "ridiculous" because they disagree with him. Isn't the mantra/catch phrase of the Liberal people to be "open minded"? So much for that.

 

More like, be open minded -- and as long as you agree with everything I say -- then I'll consider you open minded.

 

If this issue was so cut and dried as many claim -- it wouldn't be an issue, now would it. Argue on.

[lostfan]

I was addressing BigSqwert's complaint about kap saying Harry Reid had s*** for brains or whatever it was. Personally I don't care and I let a lot of stuff like that slide. That's just how kap talks.

[Y2HH]

I was addressing BigSqwert's complaint about kap saying Harry Reid had s*** for brains or whatever it was. Personally I don't care and I let a lot of stuff like that slide. That's just how kap talks.

 

I agree that people like Harry Reid have s*** for brains -- and for one specific reason -- people like him have forgotten their place. I'm friends with a Congressmen, his name is Jared Polis from Colorado. He's amongst this type, much to my dismay. They no longer carry out the word of their people, but instead make choices for them, because, in his own words, "we know whats best for them".

 

Beyond arrogant.

 

Reid, Pelosi, and I'm sure many on the republican side feel this way...and I feel this is a BIG problem in our government.

[lostfan]

I agree that people like Harry Reid have s*** for brains -- and for one specific reason -- people like him have forgotten their place. I'm friends with a Congressmen, his name is Jared Polis from Colorado. He's amongst this type, much to my dismay. They no longer carry out the word of their people, but instead make choices for them, because, in his own words, "we know whats best for them".

 

Beyond arrogant.

 

Reid, Pelosi, and I'm sure many on the republican side feel this way...and I feel this is a BIG problem in our government.

I read Polis's "Freshman Year" articles on CNN. He seems like a pretty cool guy actually.

[Y2HH]

I read Polis's "Freshman Year" articles on CNN. He seems like a pretty cool guy actually.

 

He is cool, very cool, but that has nothing to do with his politics nor his opinion that he knows whats best for his people, despite what they want.

 

 

[lostfan]

I think most Congressmen are misunderstood, at least that's how I feel after reading Robert Wexler's book. JMO

Edited December 9, 2009 by lostfan

[bmags]

it sounds like Y2HH is actually describing pretty accurately what those wonderful founding fathers hoped for in our republic. Two chambers to prevent populist outrage of people screaming what they want, at the expense of what's actually good for them. A lot of people wanted the U.S. currency to move to the silver standard, luckily william jennings bryan didn't win.

[Y2HH]

it sounds like Y2HH is actually describing pretty accurately what those wonderful founding fathers hoped for in our republic. Two chambers to prevent populist outrage of people screaming what they want, at the expense of what's actually good for them. A lot of people wanted the U.S. currency to move to the silver standard, luckily william jennings bryan didn't win.

 

Has to work both ways. The people cannot outright be ignored just because they don't agree with you, but they can't be listened too without reason. Our government doesn't even bother listening anymore, and that's the problem.