greg775 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I hope KW makes one trade -- either Dye, Paulie, Thome, whomever and saves the rest of the dealing for the offseason. I'm a little surprised he didn't trade a vet last offseason. It's obvious he thought we had a nice mix of youth and vets and pretty much all the young players he was counting on have sucked or been C-minus at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 01:49 AM) I'm a little surprised he didn't trade a vet last offseason. He did-Javy and Swisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 We should get Trade Winds back up. It's time to start suggesting what kind of returns we can get from the people we sell. I think AJ is the only real lock to stay on the team veteran-wise with Thome (contract) running a close second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 02:33 AM) We should get Trade Winds back up. It's time to start suggesting what kind of returns we can get from the people we sell. I think AJ is the only real lock to stay on the team veteran-wise with Thome (contract) running a close second. I hope that doesn't mean you're suggesting we would/should/could be trading Mark Buehrle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Definitely trade Dotel and Jenks. Keep Dye. Contreras and Thome would bring nothing. Maybe they could get Swisher back. Half-joking. I know they don't want him but they sure need him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Their will not be a firesale, but we will be trading a lot of our assets. I don't see this as a bad thing, KW will maximize returns. Based on what? Certainly didn't look that way with Jon Garland, Nick Swisher, or any of the other Pirate-like trades in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 02:14 AM) Definitely trade Dotel and Jenks. Keep Dye. Contreras and Thome would bring nothing. Thome is a still-productive future HOF left bat. If he'll agree to waive his NTC, he'll definitely bring something in return. Same goes for Dye if Kenny is willing to eat a portion of their salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Are people sure they want the Sox to unload these veterans? A "youth" movement sounds appealing, but it'll look a lot like last night's game - meager offense, the young guys struggling, a weaker bullpen.... I'm willing to bet KW trades 1-2 guys at most if the Sox are out of it. The Sox need a mix of young and old next season to be competitive. This season, he's trying to figure out who the "keepers" are - both young and old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 06:22 AM) Are people sure they want the Sox to unload these veterans? A "youth" movement sounds appealing, but it'll look a lot like last night's game - meager offense, the young guys struggling, a weaker bullpen.... I'm willing to bet KW trades 1-2 guys at most if the Sox are out of it. The Sox need a mix of young and old next season to be competitive. This season, he's trying to figure out who the "keepers" are - both young and old. Agreed, and I imagine that Kenny would hit the FA market this winter, rather than going with a full "youth movement." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 09:30 AM) Agreed, and I imagine that Kenny would hit the FA market this winter, rather than going with a full "youth movement." Good point. If the FA market is anything like last year, there should be some good players available for reasonable deals who can help fill in the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 08:22 AM) Are people sure they want the Sox to unload these veterans? A "youth" movement sounds appealing, but it'll look a lot like last night's game - meager offense, the young guys struggling, a weaker bullpen.... I'm willing to bet KW trades 1-2 guys at most if the Sox are out of it. The Sox need a mix of young and old next season to be competitive. This season, he's trying to figure out who the "keepers" are - both young and old. We kind of have to go into full rebuild mode because the veterans we have are on their last legs and running out of contract time (which is why so many people want to trade them rather then let them leave/retire and get nothing back). Our only other choice is to be a huge player on the free agent market and try and mix those guys with our young movement, but there is no reason to think the Sox are going to do that based on our history. We're willing to spend money to keep good players and trade for good players, and we'll sign the occasional big free agent (Albert Belle comes to mind), but we're not the type of team that will sign multiple big time free agents like the Yankees to fill holes. The one advantage we have is the economy is causing contracts to be a lot smaller right now and we have a lot of money that will be gone by this offseason in all likelihood, so we might be able to get some good deals on pretty good players and perhaps do a "Yankees lite" kind of spending spree. Edited June 13, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) We kind of have to go into full rebuild mode because the veterans we have are on their last legs and running out of contract time (which is why so many people want to trade them rather then let them leave/retire and get nothing back). Our only other choice is to be a huge player on the free agent market and try and mix those guys with our young movement, but there is no reason to think the Sox are going to do that based on our history. We're willing to spend money to keep good players and trade for good players, and we'll sign the occasional big free agent (Albert Belle comes to mind), but we're not the type of team that will sign multiple big time free agents like the Yankees to fill holes. I don't think it is true that the Sox have to go into full rebuild. Thome is still productive and will probably only play for the Sox, assuming he still feels the way he did when he was traded here about his geographical preferences. Konerko still has another year on his contract, and Dye has the option and is the most consistent of the three veteran hitters. Our veterans may be "old" but they are still productive. Will they be productive indefinitely? Of course not, but with TCQ injured (again), the only guys really producing are Konerko, Thome, Dye, and Pierz. Pods is also producing, but I think most agree it won't last. History shows that a bunch of our minor leaguers (any minor leaguers) won't pan out or will be role players rather than stars. Trade Dotel since the Sox seem to have enough minor league talent to replace him. Trade one of Dye/Thome/Konerko (probably Dye or Konerko) if you can. However, let the "old" guys mix with the young guys as the Sox completely transition from the 2005 "core" to the 2011 "core." If you can add a player who can be productive in the long term, the Sox should look to do it. I just don't believe a full rebuild will be successful. I also think the Sox have a high enough payroll to continue the rebuilding on the fly as KW has been doing. The Sox have the making of a very good rotation now that Floyd is pitching better and Richard looks like a legit #4 at least. The back of the bullpen, except Dotel, is under control for at least another year or more. This is a team that can compete once it finds out who the "keepers" are - both young guy "keepers" and old guy "keepers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) I don't think it is true that the Sox have to go into full rebuild. Thome is still productive and will probably only play for the Sox, assuming he still feels the way he did when he was traded here about his geographical preferences. Konerko still has another year on his contract, and Dye has the option and is the most consistent of the three veteran hitters. Our veterans may be "old" but they are still productive. Will they be productive indefinitely? Of course not, but with TCQ injured (again), the only guys really producing are Konerko, Thome, Dye, and Pierz. Pods is also producing, but I think most agree it won't last. History shows that a bunch of our minor leaguers (any minor leaguers) won't pan out or will be role players rather than stars. Trade Dotel since the Sox seem to have enough minor league talent to replace him. Trade one of Dye/Thome/Konerko (probably Dye or Konerko) if you can. However, let the "old" guys mix with the young guys as the Sox completely transition from the 2005 "core" to the 2011 "core." If you can add a player who can be productive in the long term, the Sox should look to do it. I just don't believe a full rebuild will be successful. I also think the Sox have a high enough payroll to continue the rebuilding on the fly as KW has been doing. The Sox have the making of a very good rotation now that Floyd is pitching better and Richard looks like a legit #4 at least. The back of the bullpen, except Dotel, is under control for at least another year or more. This is a team that can compete once it finds out who the "keepers" are - both young guy "keepers" and old guy "keepers." The part of this team that really needs to be rebuilt is the everyday lineup. The pitching on this team is actually ok, and I think the bullpen is too. In addition, I think the long term situation of our pitching is pretty good too. But this lineup stinks, it's incredibly bad. And I do like the idea of mixing the old guys with the young guys, but by the time the young guys are good and ready to contribute to a playoff team, the old guys like Dye, Konerko, and Thome will either be gone, retired, or too old to contribute very much (by 2011, I don't know if any of our everyday old guys are going to be able to play anywhere near their career average levels except for probably A.J.) That's why my idea of a firesale is based entirely around trading the old guys in the everyday lineup, as well as a pitcher or two like Dotel. Edited June 13, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) The part of this team that really needs to be rebuilt is the everyday lineup. The pitching on this team is actually ok, and I think the bullpen is too. In addition, I think the long term situation of our pitching is pretty good too. But this lineup stinks, it's incredibly bad. And I do like the idea of mixing the old guys with the young guys, but by the time the young guys are good and ready to contribute to a playoff team, the old guys like Dye, Konerko, and Thome will either be gone, retired, or too old to contribute very much (by 2011, I don't know if any of our everyday old guys are going to be able to play anywhere near their career average levels except for probably A.J.) That's why my idea of a firesale is based entirely around trading the old guys in the everyday lineup, as well as a pitcher or two like Dotel. So the Sox need to find some legit middle of the order hitters for 2011. Hopefully one of Flowers/Viciedo/Allen works out as a 3-4-5-6 type hitter plus Beckham and TCQ. Would your plan to be to "let the kids play" in 2010 so that they'll be ready to contend in 2011? It's not a bad plan, I'm just curious if that's the plan you are advocating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jun 13, 2009 -> 12:15 PM) So the Sox need to find some legit middle of the order hitters for 2011. Hopefully one of Flowers/Viciedo/Allen works out as a 3-4-5-6 type hitter plus Beckham and TCQ. Would your plan to be to "let the kids play" in 2010 so that they'll be ready to contend in 2011? It's not a bad plan, I'm just curious if that's the plan you are advocating. Absolutely. If you let the kids play in 2010 and it works, not only are you set for 2011 but you're set for beyond that because guys like Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and perhaps even Clayton Richard should be in the rotation for quite a while and be pretty good there, in addition to the young talent in the everyday lineup you mentioned. And the bullpen thing you can always figure out later, and perhaps you'll get a few arms to help out down there in the "firesale." Edited June 13, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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