Linebrink

[elrockinMT]

The Sox need to move him if they can. I'm on board rebuilding because I dont' think the current team is going anywhere and its time to get things setup so the next crop of players can. That doesn't mean you give everyone away but it does mean goes who don't fit into the long-term plans should go.

 

I want to see more of Getz/Beckham/BA (even if I don't think he'll ever hit with his defense you need to see if he can) and of course Poreda/Richard/Danksy/Floyd. Plus get Flowers/Danks2/Brandon Allen/Omogrosso/Link opportunities.

 

 

I think the team can compete, but I am not against moving Linebrink. With that fastball it has to be located well or he will be hit hard as we have seen. I am not sure he can be the type of middle man or bridge to Jenks in the 9th

[caulfield12]

I think the team can compete, but I am not against moving Linebrink. With that fastball it has to be located well or he will be hit hard as we have seen. I am not sure he can be the type of middle man or bridge to Jenks in the 9th

 

 

Then why would any team trade for him?

 

If he was available for "free" (with the condition that the team claiming him would have to pay the 2 1/2 remaining years on his contract), would ANY team in baseball do so in today's current economic marketplace?

 

I don't think so.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Then why would any team trade for him?

 

If he was available for "free" (with the condition that the team claiming him would have to pay the 2 1/2 remaining years on his contract), would ANY team in baseball do so in today's current economic marketplace?

 

I don't think so.

I don't see a small or middle market team picking it up, but the Yanks would probably take him if they can add salary right now. If not, we could take back a contract in the process. I know Nady has been out, don't know what is wrong with him, but if he comes back maybe that's something to think about with Quentin's status up in the air.

 

I'm not against trading Linebrink because I think we have a shot at finding another good reliever for less money. Or, maybe take Linebrink's salary and offer it to Rafael Soriano over the offseason. But I don't think we need to dump him, and especially not simply because of this game. Linebrink is still a good reliever and when he has s***ty outings like this one it just reminds you how bad the bad relievers are.

[ThunderBolt]

Plenty of teams have had success developing starting pitchers through the bullpen. You can even look at certain starters that had failed initially who didn't end up succeeding until after they had stints in the pen (Earvin Santana being a recent example).

No, I completely agree that kids can succeed on a team through the bullpen. Buehrle being the primary example of this. The problem is that Poreda is hardly even being used.

[Dick Allen]

Johan Santana was a bullpen guy. I don't think Poreda's secondary pitches are polished enough to get major league line-ups out multiple times. Let him get his feet wet and some confidence by picking his spots. Ideally you'd like to see him more than he's pitched, but even though I don't always agree with Ozzie, I think he's doing the right thing.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Dick Allen

[stretchstretch]

I've been in a funk for hours, this one really really hurt.....Tiger win doubles the impact.....

[greg775]

I'm one of the calmest guys on this site but in this division winnable games need to be won. Starting pitching has been good lately, bullpen very good all season. Hitting looks better lately. I really think the Sox can take this division easily if Quentin comes back strong post ASB ,we start hitting at home and the pitching continues as it is now.

 

No way we will take this division "easily." No way.

We are wildly inconsistent in all phases of the game. This team is .500 at best and likely to finish about .450. We know we are capable of lousy stretches like that horrible homestand. We have yet to show any signs of putting together a long win streak or stretch of 12 wins in 15 games, something like that.

[chiguy79]

we will compete for the division but not be good 10 games over .500 wins the division this year...

 

but we

(a) can't beat the Pirates

(B) blow 5-1 leads in the 8th inning after our pitcher has a 1-hitter through 7

© our LF MVP candidate is likely out for the year

(d) rely on numerous guys on the wrong side of 35 and likely to get injured

(e) breaking in 3-5 rookies who are going to get significant ABs

 

I don't think the Sox need to "blow up" the team but anyone not in the plan 3-5 years out who has value should be traded. Lets retool with some young talent and then get some good free agents with the extra cash. I think the Sox will have a big problem if they just dump salary and don't bring in some seasoned talent to play with the young studs, that would devastate season ticket sales which I bet will fall off a cliff after this year if we finish .500 or worse.

[caulfield12]

No way we will take this division "easily." No way.

We are wildly inconsistent in all phases of the game. This team is .500 at best and likely to finish about .450. We know we are capable of lousy stretches like that horrible homestand. We have yet to show any signs of putting together a long win streak or stretch of 12 wins in 15 games, something like that.

 

 

We had a 10-3 string going before we ended up winning only 3 out of the last 11 games on that homestand (after the first win against OAK at home).

Edited June 19, 2009 by caulfield12

[MexSoxFan#1]

What pisses off me the most was the beer I threw up thru my nose,TWICE,on the Lee and Soto dingers...way to give the game to the Cubs,Liney

[hawkubes]

This thread is ridiculous. It's one bad outing. The only reason this team has been able to stay afloat is the outstanding bullpen, and Scott Linebrink has been a huge part of it. I can't believe how quickly everybody turns on a player. This was a tough loss and I'm as pissed off about it as anyone, but I have no doubt Linebrink will bounce back and I sure as hell don't want him sent down (which will never happen but has been suggested) or traded away for cents on the dollar.

[elrockinMT]

This thread is ridiculous. It's one bad outing. The only reason this team has been able to stay afloat is the outstanding bullpen, and Scott Linebrink has been a huge part of it. I can't believe how quickly everybody turns on a player. This was a tough loss and I'm as pissed off about it as anyone, but I have no doubt Linebrink will bounce back and I sure as hell don't want him sent down (which will never happen but has been suggested) or traded away for cents on the dollar.

 

 

I agree bad outings happen, but this is not Linebrink's first one. You count on the bullpen to shut the door and all too often they are blowing games for us. Hopefully the pen rebounds. I have to add that the sad fact of it is that Thornton didn't hold the game either. It wasn't good, but it's over. Let's win the next one

Edited June 19, 2009 by elrockinMT

[Harry Chappas]

This thread is ridiculous. It's one bad outing. The only reason this team has been able to stay afloat is the outstanding bullpen, and Scott Linebrink has been a huge part of it. I can't believe how quickly everybody turns on a player. This was a tough loss and I'm as pissed off about it as anyone, but I have no doubt Linebrink will bounce back and I sure as hell don't want him sent down (which will never happen but has been suggested) or traded away for cents on the dollar.

 

Not one bad outing, 5 straight.

 

After the Colon Sunday game against the Indians which Wes Whisler ended any hope of winning after the Ramirez home run, Linebrink has lost two games, allowed inherited runners to score or gave up a run to blow two shut outs and that debacle yesterday. Wednesday Jake Fox took him to the ivy and Anderson saved that game.

 

The Friday Brewer game was also Dotel and Carrasco.

 

Up until yesterday Thorton had not pitched in any of the games I have alluded to other than to clean up Linebrink's mess.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Jenks Heat

[RockRaines]

Not one bad outing, 5 straight.

So this is kind of like the Floyd and Danks threads and comments from earlier in the season?

[ThunderBolt]

So this is kind of like the Floyd and Danks threads and comments from earlier in the season?

Yes, because two young starting pitchers going through a bad spell, definitely are a great comparison to an aging relief pitcher showing signs of decline.

[RockRaines]

Yes, because two young starting pitchers going through a bad spell, definitely are a great comparison to an aging relief pitcher showing signs of decline.

Its being considered a bad spell in hindsight, take a took at the posts and threads dedicated to regression, waste of money, trade him now while you still can.

 

Linebrink isnt the greatest, but he's had a bad week, DLEE hit a good pitch and he couldnt get the 4th out.

[Dick Allen]

Yes, because two young starting pitchers going through a bad spell, definitely are a great comparison to an aging relief pitcher showing signs of decline.

Linebrink's bad spell has been about 7 innings. You are going to have bad outings. Obviously several in a row is troublesome, but Linebrink isn't going anywhere. We better hope he gets it together quickly.

[ThunderBolt]

Linebrink's bad spell has been about 7 innings. You are going to have bad outings. Obviously several in a row is troublesome, but Linebrink isn't going anywhere. We better hope he gets it together quickly.

I'm not ready to give up on Linebrink yet. The problem is that Linebrink is lucky to throw 9 innings a week, when seven of those are bad it's put the team in a very bad place.

[DBAHO]

One of Linebrink's main issues is that his BB/G has risen from 1.9 last season to 3.5 currently, which is just a little above his career average.

 

Last season also he had a DER of .741 and that's dropped to .681 currently, so he's obviously had some subpar defense behind him when he's pitched so far this season.

 

However he has a FIP of 4.28, and that's a 2.03 difference b/w that and his ERA.

 

So that indicates what kind of pitcher he's been so far moreso I think. And he had a 4.27 FIP last season.

 

And really, you expect a bit more than that for a reliever you're paying almost $5M a season to.

[Wanne]

I'd like to know why Liney, it seems, has almost completely given up on his curveball? Instead he just keeps pumping fastball after fastball up there.

[Balta1701]

One of Linebrink's main issues is that his BB/G has risen from 1.9 last season to 3.5 currently, which is just a little above his career average.

 

Last season also he had a DER of .741 and that's dropped to .681 currently, so he's obviously had some subpar defense behind him when he's pitched so far this season.

 

However he has a FIP of 4.28, and that's a 2.03 difference b/w that and his ERA.

 

So that indicates what kind of pitcher he's been so far moreso I think. And he had a 4.27 FIP last season.

 

And really, you expect a bit more than that for a reliever you're paying almost $5M a season to.

DER and FIP? Care to give some details on those?

[chw42]

This thread is ridiculous. It's one bad outing. The only reason this team has been able to stay afloat is the outstanding bullpen, and Scott Linebrink has been a huge part of it. I can't believe how quickly everybody turns on a player. This was a tough loss and I'm as pissed off about it as anyone, but I have no doubt Linebrink will bounce back and I sure as hell don't want him sent down (which will never happen but has been suggested) or traded away for cents on the dollar.

 

Have you not been watching him this year?

 

There's a reason he's 2-4 this season. His WHIP is a blinding 1.542. That's horrible for a relief pitcher. He's only come in once when there were runners on base and of course, he let that runner score and I think that was yesterday. But Linebrink has given up a lot of hits and if he were to come into more pressure situations, he would have allowed a lot more inherited runners to score.

 

What's even worse is that his WHIP has been 2.538 in the past two weeks. This isn't new. He's given up the lead or let another team tie the game at least 4-5 times this year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

DER and FIP? Care to give some details on those?

 

DER is defensive efficiency ratio. It's kinda like BABIP except it's for defense. Tells you the percentage of batted balls in play that are turned into outs. FIP is fielding independent pitching (this is a saber stat that I'm a big fan of). It's a metric that measures everything a pitcher has 100% control of (walks, K's, HR's HBP). If a guy's normal ERA is a lot lower that his FIP ERA than that suggests he's getting lucky with balls in play. And vice versa if his normal ERA is higher than his FIP ERA.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Jordan4life

[Balta1701]

DER is defensive efficiency ratio. It's kinda like BABIP except it's for defense. Tells you the percentage of batted balls in play that are turned into outs. FIP is fielding independent pitching (this is a saber stat that I'm a big fan of). It's a metric that measures everything a pitcher has 100% control of (walks, K's, HR's HBP). If a guy's normal ERA is a lot lower that his FIP ERA than that suggests he's getting lucky with balls in play. And vice versa if his normal ERA is higher than his FIP ERA.

So, if I'm reading those #'s right, Linebrink has had some shoddy defense behind him this year compared to last since the DER behind him has gone down...but he's also been quite lucky with the other balls hit in play, since his FIP ERA is much higher than his normal ERA? Does that just say that his ERA is being held down because a lot of runs have been unearned?

[Jordan4life_2007]

So, if I'm reading those #'s right, Linebrink has had some shoddy defense behind him this year compared to last since the DER behind him has gone down...but he's also been quite lucky with the other balls hit in play, since his FIP ERA is much higher than his normal ERA? Does that just say that his ERA is being held down because a lot of runs have been unearned?

 

There you go! That's the one thing I like about most of these saberstats. The standard stats can tell a bold face lie sometimes. If you look at Linebrink's normal ERA by itself you would think he was having a dominating year. We all know that hasn't been the case.