6/18 Games

[southsider2k5]

 

He's had more big hits late in games than anyone in our minor league organization. Not just this year. All 3 years he's been with us.

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I will say for the Cuban players, they aren't scared to win a game.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Lucas Harrell is quietly having himself a nice season. I really like this guy.

 

Edit: BTW what has gotten into Justin Greene? He seems to be putting himself on the map. Anyone have a brief scouting report on this guy? I've seen him mentioned alongside other toolsy OF'ers like Morales, Gerst, etc. but don't know anything else about him other than his stats which seem to say he doesn't like being in the same place very long.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[danman31]

What else is he going to do? Catch? Like I said, you could have him as a third catcher/DH, or David Cook who can play LF, CF, RF & DH. Or hell, even Dewayne Wise. I don't want to hear the numbers game crap in regard to David Cook when the big fat number is Corky Miller as the third catcher.

I didn't have any problems with Corky defensively. He threw out a runner. I saw it. He wore a White Sox uniform. It's pretty rare with AJ back there. I agree with Cook, but he did get his shot at AAA and it wasn't spectacular. Not saying he should be in AA, but it's hard to see him having a future.

[bighurt4life]

Edit: BTW what has gotten into Justin Greene? He seems to be putting himself on the map. Anyone have a brief scouting report on this guy? I've seen him mentioned alongside other toolsy OF'ers like Morales, Gerst, etc. but don't know anything else about him other than his stats which seem to say he doesn't like being in the same place very long.

 

 

Justin Greene’s speed helped earn him a spot on Francis Marion University’s roster.

But Greene’s all-around game helped him get a shot at playing professional baseball.

The Chicago White Sox selected the FMU outfielder in the 20th round of the Major League baseball draft Friday.

“I’m very excited,” said Greene, who learned he had been drafted while returning from a haircut. “I just wanted to get my foot in the door.”

Greene wasn’t the only Patriot taken on the second day. Right-hander David Walters was taken in the 47th round by the Braves. Walters, a junior has one more year of eligibility left and can return.

It was the first time FMU has had two players drafted in the same year and fifth straight season the Patriots had a player taken.

But many observers didn’t see this coming when Greene arrived in Florence.

After receiving no offers out of Stratford High School, Greene walked on at FMU, mainly because of his quickness.

“I personally thought I had more to offer than just speed,” Greene said.

Greene redshirted his freshman year and made an impression on the FMU coaching staff during a scrimmage the next season. He cracked the starting lineup early that year and became one of the team’s most consistent players.

Greene had his best season this year for the Patriots. He led the team in five offensive categories, including batting average (.384) and runs scored (54). He also hit eight homers and drove in 40 runs.

Greene, who hit higher than .300 in each of his four seasons, finished his career owning the school’s all-time records for runs scored (163), hit by pitch (48) and sacrifice hits (38).

“Justin has always been able to run,” FMU coach Art Inabinet said. “That kind of got the scouts attention, but he has matured as a hitter and defensive player.”

Inabinet said Greene’s biggest improvement was his ability to hit a breaking ball better, something he wasn’t able to do early in his career. The FMU coach also said Greene playing in summer wooden bat leagues also helped his development.

Greene played in the New England Wooden Bat League and also in the Coastal Plain League for the Columbia Blowfish.

Greene will likely begin his pro career in Bristol, Tenn., one of the White Sox’ Class A affiliates. The Bristol White Sox first game is June 17 against Johnson City.

 

I've been talking this guy up for a while, I think he deserves a promotion because he's been killing the ball in Kanny all year with an ops near 900

[NorthSideSox72]

Too bad for Torres losing the chance to continue that perfect game.

 

Kroeger is on fire in June: .419/.457/.698/1.154

 

And we get Dewayne frickin Wise.

 

[scenario]

Too bad for Torres losing the chance to continue that perfect game.

 

Kroeger is on fire in June: .419/.457/.698/1.154

 

And we get Dewayne frickin Wise.

 

Somebody ought to write Kroeger and suggest he hire you as his agent.

[JPN366]

Somebody ought to write Kroeger and suggest he hire you as his agent.

 

The list of players in the minors who could be more productive than Dewayne Wise is long.

[Chisoxfn]

Hopefully now that the Barons lost some of its key players Shelby starts to heat up, always been a favorite of mine and he was the one guy who has been dissapointing so far on that team. I still think between Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, and Shelby that team will be a force to reckon with, Im assuming Cook will be gone when Danks returns. Be interesting to see if Marrero keeps on hitting and turns himself into a legit prospect.

We have to remember that Shelby could always move to back to 2B where his bat would project much much better.

[Jordan4life_2007]

We have to remember that Shelby could always move to back to 2B where his bat would project much much better.

 

Wasn't he removed from 2B for a reason? Wasn't he a butcher over there?

[Adele_H]

Hopefully now that the Barons lost some of its key players Shelby starts to heat up, always been a favorite of mine and he was the one guy who has been dissapointing so far on that team. I still think between Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, and Shelby that team will be a force to reckon with, Im assuming Cook will be gone when Danks returns. Be interesting to see if Marrero keeps on hitting and turns himself into a legit prospect.

 

Flowers, Viciedo, JorDanks I get.... but Shelby? How is he not anything more than a homeless man's Chris Young?

[Adele_H]

Wasn't he removed from 2B for a reason? Wasn't he a butcher over there?

 

See that's another thing: all this "so and so is more valuable as a ____" can be a bit misguided IMO.

 

I am sure Edgar Martinez's bat would have been more valuable as a CF, but there was a reason he was a DH.

 

Hell, look at Soriano on the Cubs. Brutal 2B, but decent (when healthy) in LF. Easy decision to make which position he should play.

[scenario]

Wasn't he removed from 2B for a reason? Wasn't he a butcher over there?

 

Sort of... He was struggling for a while in 2007 both in the field and at the plate.

 

They moved him to left to allow him to take fielding out of the equation and let him focus on his hitting.

 

It worked and his offense kicked back into gear.

 

Personally, I think Shelby has alot of potential. Not too often you find a player with the speed/power combo he has.

 

He typically starts slow and picks it up as the year goes on... so the second half of this year should be very telling (and important) to determine if and where he fits in the Sox prospect picture.

Edited June 19, 2009 by scenario

[Adele_H]

Personally, I think Shelby has alot of potential. Not too often you find a player with the speed/power combo he has.

 

.

 

Unfortunately, if pitch-recognotion, strike-zone management and hand-eye coordination (read: bat control) aren't top notch, no amount of power/speed will help a player succeed in the majors.

 

Chris Young, Felie Pie and Corey Patterson are finding that out the hard way -- and Shelby is a lesser talent IMO. His struggles in AA do not surprise.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Adele_H

[Palehosefan]

Unfortunately, if pitch-recognotion, strike-zone management and hand-eye coordination (read: bat control) aren't top notch, no amount of power/speed will help a player succeed in the majors.

 

Chris Young, Felie Pie and Corey Patterson are finding that out the hard way -- and Shelby is a lesser talent IMO. His struggles in AA do not surprise.

 

If you somehow expected Shelby to struggle like this at AA, you might want to play the lottery. Here's Shelby's past two seasons.

 

A: .301 AVG 16 HR 79 RBI's 19 SB's

A+: .295 AVG 15 HR 80 RBI's 33 SB's

[danman31]

His K:BB ratio had been pretty poor though, it's not a big surprise.

[scenario]

Unfortunately, if pitch-recognotion, strike-zone management and hand-eye coordination (read: bat control) aren't top notch, no amount of power/speed will help a player succeed in the majors.

 

Chris Young, Felie Pie and Corey Patterson are finding that out the hard way -- and Shelby is a lesser talent IMO. His struggles in AA do not surprise.

 

So... help me out here. I'm willing to be influenced.

 

What do you know about his pitch recognition, strike-zone management, and hand-eye coordination?

 

Where do you get that information from?

 

And how many times have you actually seen him play?

 

 

[JPN366]

So... help me out here. I'm willing to be influenced.

 

What do you know about his pitch recognition, strike-zone management, and hand-eye coordination?

 

Where do you get that information from?

 

And how many times have you actually seen him play?

 

He's spent most of the season hitting leadoff, of course his numbers are down. He was a 2, 3 or 4 hitter in 2007-2008. He's still on pace for 12 HR and 55 RBI.

Edited June 20, 2009 by JPN366

[BearSox]

So... help me out here. I'm willing to be influenced.

 

What do you know about his pitch recognition, strike-zone management, and hand-eye coordination?

 

Where do you get that information from?

 

And how many times have you actually seen him play?

I'm sorry, but I absolutely hate this argument. Most of us have seen very little of him, and everything is based on stats, scouting reports, and shot clips or a game or two in ST we saw them in. It's mainly opinion at this point.

 

You disagree, fine, I really don't care. However, it'd make a lot more sense if you went with an argument involving stats, referencing scouting reports, and the little you have seen of him. The argument saying "how many times have you actually seen him play" is crap unless your JPN and have seen about half of his games this year.

[JPN366]

I'm sorry, but I absolutely hate this argument. Most of us have seen very little of him, and everything is based on stats, scouting reports, and shot clips or a game or two in ST we saw them in. It's mainly opinion at this point.

 

You disagree, fine, I really don't care. However, it'd make a lot more sense if you went with an argument involving stats, referencing scouting reports, and the little you have seen of him. The argument saying "how many times have you actually seen him play" is crap unless your JPN and have seen about half of his games this year.

 

32 games to be exact. Anyway, I know statistically Treybone is struggling. But really the only glaring thing is his batting average. The only thing I've learned from that is that he just isn't a leadoff hitter. His average is higher NOT hitting leadoff. His numbers went up as soon as Danks took over the 1 hole. Last year especially it was just him and Retherford leading the offense. All in all, I don't get the Shelby disgust. It's really unwarranted, the guy's a good ballplayer, he's allowed to struggle when he's put in a spot that just doesn't fit him. You take a middle of the order hitter, move him to the 1 hole, then bump him down to the 7, 8 or 9 hole, then back up, he's going to be inconsistent. He's an aggressive RBI guy, he either needs to hit 2nd, or back in the bottom three. He has been clutch a lot this year FYI.

[SoxAce]

Yo JPN, I'm going to Alabama this August (bout a week stay) to see my cousin get married. I wanna catch a Barons game in Birmingham and hopefully we can meet up. **and you can hook it up with free tickets.**

[scenario]

I'm sorry, but I absolutely hate this argument. Most of us have seen very little of him, and everything is based on stats, scouting reports, and shot clips or a game or two in ST we saw them in. It's mainly opinion at this point.

 

You disagree, fine, I really don't care. However, it'd make a lot more sense if you went with an argument involving stats, referencing scouting reports, and the little you have seen of him. The argument saying "how many times have you actually seen him play" is crap unless your JPN and have seen about half of his games this year.

 

It's not a crap argument. The crap argument is making negative comments about a guy's 'hand-eye coordination'; comparing him to other teams' failed prospects; etc., without any freaking evidence.

 

What the hell is that? IMO the referenced post was nothing more than typical 'our prospects suck until they prove otherwise' garbage.

 

But I AM willing to change my mind (and even apologize) if somebody has something other than 1/3 of a season of stats to back it up. (That's why JPN's input is so valuable. He actually does see people play on a regular basis. If he said somebody has lousy hand-eye coordination, I'd buy it because he has something to base it on.)

 

Sorry for coming off as so critical. I just don't get why some people trash prospects based on 'opinions' (which they state as facts) when they have very little to no evidence to back them up.

 

I'd expect that stuff on some other boards, but not on SoxTalk.

Edited June 20, 2009 by scenario

[JPN366]

It's not a crap argument. The crap argument is making negative comments about a guy's 'hand-eye coordination'; comparing him to other teams' failed prospects; etc., without any freaking evidence.

 

What the hell is that? IMO the referenced post was nothing more than typical 'our prospects suck until they prove otherwise' garbage.

 

But I AM willing to change my mind (and even apologize) if somebody has something other than 1/3 of a season of stats to back it up. (That's why JPN's input is so valuable. He actually does see people play on a regular basis. If he said somebody has lousy hand-eye coordination, I'd buy it because he has something to base it on.)

 

Sorry for coming off as so critical. I just don't get why some people trash prospects based on 'opinions' (which they state as facts) when they have very little to no evidence to back them up.

 

I'd expect that stuff on some other boards, but not on SoxTalk.

 

Well, you have the people who trash the guys who are struggling, and disregard the ones who are having success. I wonder how some would have reacted to Evan Longoria if he had been in the White Sox organization. Would they have been saying, "it's just AA" when he had a great season for Montgomery in 2007?

[danman31]

IMO the referenced post was nothing more than typical 'our prospects suck until they prove otherwise' garbage.

It's a matter of opinion. I think you are way too nice to our prospects with the opposite 'our prospects are really good until they prove otherwise' which I could also call garbage when you try to defend some 23 year old reliever in high A or something. I think you are being a little harsh on BearSox considering he is simply stating an opinion that you disagree with. The fact of the matter is most prospects don't make it. You can decide which one is garbage on your own.

 

Well, you have the people who trash the guys who are struggling, and disregard the ones who are having success. I wonder how some would have reacted to Evan Longoria if he had been in the White Sox organization. Would they have been saying, "it's just AA" when he had a great season for Montgomery in 2007?

I won't speak for others, but generally AA is the point where a guy proves he is gonna be a Major Leaguer. If you succeed in AA, the odds are pretty good of you making it to the Majors at some point, especially for hitters. I don't think I would be reserved on a guy succeeding AA. Some of the college guys in A ball have to prove themselves a bit more if they don't have a bigger upside or incredible stats.

[maggsmaggs]

Well, you have the people who trash the guys who are struggling, and disregard the ones who are having success. I wonder how some would have reacted to Evan Longoria if he had been in the White Sox organization. Would they have been saying, "it's just AA" when he had a great season for Montgomery in 2007?

I also think its alot of being burned before on prospects. I have followed Sox minor leaguers since 2000 and I got really excited then we had the best farm system according to baseball america. Here is the Sox's top 15 prospects following the completion of the 2000 season:

1) Rauch

2) Borchard

3) Crede

4) Ginter

5) Wright

6) Barcelo

7) West

8) Rowand

9) Fogg

10) Stumm

11) Majewski

12) Liefer

13) Biddle

14) Malone

15) Bajenaru

 

Two of these guys lived up to their billing as top prospects (Crede and Rowand) and a lot of them had tremendous minor league success (Rauch was BA's player of the year in 2000). These guys had arguably as good numbers as any of current Sox prospects. Most people thought that these guys would be the foundation to our team the next decade and only two of them were that. Sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution and be surprised if they make rather than be let down when they fail to live up to our expectations.

Edited June 20, 2009 by maggsmaggs

[Adele_H]

If you somehow expected Shelby to struggle like this at AA, you might want to play the lottery. Here's Shelby's past two seasons.

 

A: .301 AVG 16 HR 79 RBI's 19 SB's

A+: .295 AVG 15 HR 80 RBI's 33 SB's

 

Scout the player not the numbers, as the old folk mutter. Numbers in the minors can be very misleading, in general. Ask Brandon Wood and Jake Fox, among others.

 

Then you take into account that the jump between A and AA is arguably the biggest of all (besides to majors)

 

The way some talk about Shelby is that of a bonafied blue-chip prospect. Having actually seen him play.... He is NOT. There are a couple of John Shelby III in every organization AA/AAA.

 

My point re: speed/power being not nearly enough to be a good major-leaguer, still stands. Who knows, Shelby may become an All-Star; I am certainly not trying to suggest he's hopeless case. I didn't think Chris Young, Corey Patterson and Felix Pie would be failing as miserably at this point in their careers, either.