Official 2009-2010 NBA Thread

[southsider2k5]

Un-Bull-eivable.

[fathom]

why in the world is salmons pulling up for a contested 3 pointer with 8 seconds left???? ugh ....im liking salmons less and less each game he plays

 

He's an awful player. He puts up decent numbers, but he does very little to help a team win.

[Dick Allen]

That's just sad. With the shoe tying incident, and blowout loss to Toronto, now the embarrassing defeat to a 1-19 team, Vinny has to be dangling from a thread. Of course he had no personnel help, but these are things that should not happen.

 

Vinnie put his house up for sale. Maybe he knows something.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Dick Allen

[chw42]

This team is horrible.

[MHizzle85]

I haven't thrown in the towel on this team yet, but I took it out of my pocket & i'm ready to throw.

[Kyyle23]

That 3 point attempt just made me sick. Something tells me that ball was supposed to move around a little bit more than it did and Salmons took it upon himself.

 

Vinnie put his house up for sale. Maybe he knows something.

 

 

Really? Where did you hear about that?

Edited December 9, 2009 by KyYlE23

[Steve9347]

That 3 point attempt just made me sick. Something tells me that ball was supposed to move around a little bit more than it did and Salmons took it upon himself.

 

 

 

 

Really? Where did you hear about that?

radio. i heard it too.

[dasox24]

Since I don't feel like discussing the Bulls after tonight's awesome performance...

 

What's up with the Grizzlies? They're on a roll since they're 1-8 start and just beat the Cavs tonight. 8-4 in their last 12 games.

[Dick Allen]

I haven't thrown in the towel on this team yet, but I took it out of my pocket & i'm ready to throw.

I hope you are more successful throwing towels than Lovie Smith.

[southsider2k5]

That's just sad. With the shoe tying incident, and blowout loss to Toronto, now the embarrassing defeat to a 1-19 team, Vinny has to be dangling from a thread. Of course he had no personnel help, but these are things that should not happen.

 

Vinnie put his house up for sale. Maybe he knows something.

 

After seeing this team under two coaches in a short period of time, it is pretty obvious it isn't the coach... This is just a dumb team, and they don't have a finisher, at all.

[DBAHO]

After seeing this team under two coaches in a short period of time, it is pretty obvious it isn't the coach... This is just a dumb team, and they don't have a finisher, at all.

It's interesting because coming into this season, a lot of experts had the Bulls down as the 4th or 5th seed in the East winning about 45 games as they thought the young guys would progress. And in the case of Joakin Noah, that's been right.

 

Obviously right now the injuries to Hinrich and Thomas hurt, because the Bulls are basically playing with 6-7 effective players meaning they have no depth whatsoever. Salmons is definitely a 3, but you've got Deng there, while Gibson obviously isn't a starting caliber 4 at this point.

 

If I'm the Bulls, in the long - term getting a top 10 pick could be a good thing in terms of adding another asset which could make it more attractive for a FA potentially. But say if I'm Dwyane Wade, I think he finds more potential in staying with Miami and getting Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudemire to come down and join him, and that would move the Heat into the real top teams in the East (and they could potentially go for another FA if they did a sign and trade with Michael Beasley which has been mooted).

 

As for VDN, I don't rate him as a coach and put him in the bottom 5-6 in the NBA, in terms of the system that he uses and the team rules etc. that he has in place. But what coaches are out there that would replace him? Byron Scott? Lawrence Frank? Bernie Bickerstaff? Pretty slim pickings really.

 

[daa84]

It's interesting because coming into this season, a lot of experts had the Bulls down as the 4th or 5th seed in the East winning about 45 games as they thought the young guys would progress. And in the case of Joakin Noah, that's been right.

 

Obviously right now the injuries to Hinrich and Thomas hurt, because the Bulls are basically playing with 6-7 effective players meaning they have no depth whatsoever. Salmons is definitely a 3, but you've got Deng there, while Gibson obviously isn't a starting caliber 4 at this point.

 

If I'm the Bulls, in the long - term getting a top 10 pick could be a good thing in terms of adding another asset which could make it more attractive for a FA potentially. But say if I'm Dwyane Wade, I think he finds more potential in staying with Miami and getting Chris Bosh or Amare Stoudemire to come down and join him, and that would move the Heat into the real top teams in the East (and they could potentially go for another FA if they did a sign and trade with Michael Beasley which has been mooted).

 

As for VDN, I don't rate him as a coach and put him in the bottom 5-6 in the NBA, in terms of the system that he uses and the team rules etc. that he has in place. But what coaches are out there that would replace him? Byron Scott? Lawrence Frank? Bernie Bickerstaff? Pretty slim pickings really.

doug collins

[Chisoxfn]

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Bulls go with Doug Collins actually.

[MHizzle85]

After seeing this team under two coaches in a short period of time, it is pretty obvious it isn't the coach... This is just a dumb team, and they don't have a finisher, at all.

Boylan wasn't a good coach period. Del Negro isn't just a good coach, he's a horrible leader as well. This team has the talent to be a top 5 team in the East. But with injuries to an already short rotation, they're hurting...BAD.

 

Vinny Del Negro has no more qualification to be an NBA coach than anyone on this board. Yeah, I said it.

[nitetrain8601]

Boylan wasn't a good coach period. Del Negro isn't just a good coach, he's a horrible leader as well. This team has the talent to be a top 5 team in the East. But with injuries to an already short rotation, they're hurting...BAD.

 

Vinny Del Negro has no more qualification to be an NBA coach than anyone on this board. Yeah, I said it.

 

No, they really don't. I don't see VDN as a top caliber coach, but I don't see him as a horrible coach. Is he an outstanding leader? So far, no. With that said, the front office is what's wrong with this team. The management has sabatoged this team. They're trying to lead the fans into thinking we got a superstar in Rose and a great club around him with hard workers, yet when it comes to specifically designing this team, they failed big time. They want to lead you to believe they couldn't keep BG if they wanted a big time FA in 2010. Well, yeah they could've and this team would've been more attractive considering they had 3 deals on the table for Kirk to free up cap room and they said no to all even though they were expirings. If they traded Kirk and didn't sign Pargo, there's room for Ben, Rose a big time FA, Noah, Deng, etc. They would run into cap problems down the road, yes. But in this event, they still will anyway.

[ZoomSlowik]

I gotta agree with nitetrain, this roster is not top-5 caliber talent-wise. With Gordon gone their outside shooting is abysmal and they have no post scorer that can help bail them out when their shooting is off. Rose has the athleticism to be a difference-maker, but he still needs to learn that he needs to attack every night on both ends of the floor. The rest of the roster isn't doing him any favors, he basically needs to dominate every night for his team to have a chance.

 

If they really passed on multiple offers to dump Hinrich for an expiring contract (I know there were rumors but didn't here anything was definitively shot down) that royally blows. I'm not a big Gordon fan, but he clearly had more of a positive impact on this team than Hinrich. If they had moved him, kept Gordon and drafted someone like Lawson or Collison to be the backup PG that would have been far more desireable than this current roster.

 

They're banged up now and that definitely hurts, but they're still a lower-tier playoff team even at their absolute best the way everyone is playing right now. They're pretty much screwed if they don't snag a top-notch FA this off-season.

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Bulls go with Doug Collins actually.

He turned down the first chance to coach Rose, why would he want it now that he's got 2 years of VDN screwups to correct?

[nitetrain8601]

I gotta agree with nitetrain, this roster is not top-5 caliber talent-wise. With Gordon gone their outside shooting is abysmal and they have no post scorer that can help bail them out when their shooting is off. Rose has the athleticism to be a difference-maker, but he still needs to learn that he needs to attack every night on both ends of the floor. The rest of the roster isn't doing him any favors, he basically needs to dominate every night for his team to have a chance.

 

If they really passed on multiple offers to dump Hinrich for an expiring contract (I know there were rumors but didn't here anything was definitively shot down) that royally blows. I'm not a big Gordon fan, but he clearly had more of a positive impact on this team than Hinrich. If they had moved him, kept Gordon and drafted someone like Lawson or Collison to be the backup PG that would have been far more desireable than this current roster.

 

They're banged up now and that definitely hurts, but they're still a lower-tier playoff team even at their absolute best the way everyone is playing right now. They're pretty much screwed if they don't snag a top-notch FA this off-season.

 

Bingo. Last, but not least, if this team gets Wade, they will be better, but at the same time, not much better simply because they have zero outside shooting to open up lanes for Derrick alone, much less both him and Wade. With the front office falling in love with players, the Bulls are going to have to sign a Mehmet Okur and Dirk Nowitzki to make up for the lack of outside shooting. And if John Salmons opts back in (which he should because he's playing terrible), it still hurts the cap flexibility. Currently constructed, the Bulls best bet is to still get rid of Deng, sign Joe Johnson and Mehmet Okur for outside shooting so they have some type of balance, and fill up their roster with Raja Bells and Taj Gibsons of the world. Also, the Bulls will probably end up losing Tyrus as well in the process.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Losing by 30 to the Hawks. And this is kinda off topic, but have the Lakers set a record for most home games played before Christmas? They've been at Staples all f***in year.

[Dick Allen]

After seeing this team under two coaches in a short period of time, it is pretty obvious it isn't the coach... This is just a dumb team, and they don't have a finisher, at all.

The team is very different from what Skiles and Boylan had. Salmons, Miller and Rose get huge minutes. Gibson wasn't around. Noah is more advanced. I agree the baskeball IQ doesn't seem to be there a lot, but is that all on the players? A top coach makes sure Rose gets the last shot, not Salmons hoisting up another well off 3.

 

All these blowouts can't be making Chicago a very attractive destination for soon-to-be FAs.

 

I think the Bulls need to start focusing on who they really want coaching this team going forward. Gordon was a lot more valuable than even his biggest fans probably knew. It may not be able to get done now, but they need a headstart. Its obvious Vinny is not a championship-calibur head coach. His teams don't play defense. They have to do something to stop the bleeding. I have no idea what it could be. Maybe a new coach can shock them into a few more wins. I have no idea, but except for JR's profit margins, things with the Bulls look pretty bleak.

[nitetrain8601]

The team is very different from what Skiles and Boylan had. Salmons, Miller and Rose get huge minutes. Gibson wasn't around. Noah is more advanced. I agree the baskeball IQ doesn't seem to be there a lot, but is that all on the players? A top coach makes sure Rose gets the last shot, not Salmons hoisting up another well off 3.

 

All these blowouts can't be making Chicago a very attractive destination for soon-to-be FAs.

 

I think the Bulls need to start focusing on who they really want coaching this team going forward. Gordon was a lot more valuable than even his biggest fans probably knew. It may not be able to get done now, but they need a headstart. Its obvious Vinny is not a championship-calibur head coach. His teams don't play defense. They have to do something to stop the bleeding. I have no idea what it could be. Maybe a new coach can shock them into a few more wins. I have no idea, but except for JR's profit margins, things with the Bulls look pretty bleak.

 

His team was playing defense earlier in the year. What happened? Vinny isn't a top 5 coach, but canning him makes no different. It's a player problem. And a lot of what you see ran out there on offense is the players. There were quotes, I believe, that the team couldn't grasp the offense for the most part in training camp last year, so they had to scrap it and hope to put in more new stuff as the season progressed. I'm most assured this came from Del Harris who stated it was the most difficult year and team he ever had been a part of because of the lack of bball IQ and the selfishness of players(apparently Deng had beef with BG and Rose). BTW, this team is better off losing and getting a high pick then gaining like 3 more wins for nothing.

Edited December 10, 2009 by nitetrain8601

[Dick Allen]

His team was playing defense earlier in the year. What happened? Vinny isn't a top 5 coach, but canning him makes no different. It's a player problem. And a lot of what you see ran out there on offense is the players. There were quotes, I believe, that the team couldn't grasp the offense for the most part in training camp last year, so they had to scrap it and hope to put in more new stuff as the season progressed. I'm most assured this came from Del Harris who stated it was the most difficult year and team he ever had been a part of because of the lack of bball IQ and the selfishness of players(apparently Deng had beef with BG and Rose). BTW, this team is better off losing and getting a high pick then gaining like 3 more wins for nothing.

While normally I would agree and say losing helps the Bulls now, when they are going to try to sign Wade or LeBron, and I know they are probably pipedreams, losing kills. If they won 50 games this year, they would have a better shot at those guys. They put all their eggs in this FA class's basket. Getting a guy like Joe Johnson or Boozer, while nice, isn't a huge upgrade over Ben Gordon, and that's not good enough to win. Tonight, the commentators on ESPN were ripping the Bulls effort. If Vinny can't get them to play hard, they need to find somebody who can. We have seen this kind of play before way too much IMO. The next 9 months may really determine if the Bulls remain significant in this town. I think there is a chance they could become like the Blackhawks used to be. Its amazing their ticketholders have stuck by them so long, but I really wonder how much more they will take. I think most think the Bulls should be competing for at least an Eastern Conference championship in 2010-11.

 

What does Gar Forman do?

[DBAHO]

While normally I would agree and say losing helps the Bulls now, when they are going to try to sign Wade or LeBron, and I know they are probably pipedreams, losing kills. If they won 50 games this year, they would have a better shot at those guys. They put all their eggs in this FA class's basket. Getting a guy like Joe Johnson or Boozer, while nice, isn't a huge upgrade over Ben Gordon, and that's not good enough to win. Tonight, the commentators on ESPN were ripping the Bulls effort. If Vinny can't get them to play hard, they need to find somebody who can. We have seen this kind of play before way too much IMO. The next 9 months may really determine if the Bulls remain significant in this town. I think there is a chance they could become like the Blackhawks used to be. Its amazing their ticketholders have stuck by them so long, but I really wonder how much more they will take. I think most think the Bulls should be competing for at least an Eastern Conference championship in 2010-11.

 

What does Gar Forman do?

I think Joe Johnson is incredibly underrated on this thread in particular.

 

If he played in a big market, he'd be a bonafide star.

 

SG's that average 21PPG, 5RB's and 5AS's, don't exactly grow on trees. And he's basically in his prime right now at 28.

 

As for the Bulls terrible effort on their part tonight, and the blowtorch is firmly going to be locked on them going forward. When you shoot only 36% and commit 19TO's (more TO's than assists tonight, ugh), you're not going to win many games of basketball at all.

[SoxAce]

BTW, this team is better off losing and getting a high pick then gaining like 3 more wins for nothing.

 

It could be good and bad honestly. Let's say the Bulls finish in the bottom 5, but somehow win the lottery again and draft #1 overall again? You draft John Wall (who most think is Derrick Rose or will be even BETTER than Rose, and so far is more advanced in college [Calhoun called him the best PG to come in since Jason Kidd 15 years ago]) and actually think of trading the homegrown Rose who will probably command a ransom or a young stud SG/PF/C/SF? You trade the pick (basically trade Wall) for something? (I won't even say passing him up because you cannot pass up Wall I'm sorry, even though I love Favors) and perhaps move down to draft whoever else? I mean it could be good in a sense that your getting another very good young player or trading for a very good young player and perhaps entice a Wade/Bosh, but it can also tell those coveted FA that even with a Rose/Wall and whatever, we are still not looking good and that's not to say VDN will still be the head coach either. Again this is just hypothetically speaking on my part as far as the lottery.

[Dick Allen]

I think Joe Johnson is incredibly underrated on this thread in particular.

 

If he played in a big market, he'd be a bonafide star.

 

SG's that average 21PPG, 5RB's and 5AS's, don't exactly grow on trees. And he's basically in his prime right now at 28.

 

As for the Bulls terrible effort on their part tonight, and the blowtorch is firmly going to be locked on them going forward. When you shoot only 36% and commit 19TO's (more TO's than assists tonight, ugh), you're not going to win many games of basketball at all.

Ben Gordon averaged 21 pts. 3.5 reb and 3.5 assists a game for the Bulls last year and he's in his prime. He may be an upgrade over Gordon, but its not huge, and certainly won't make the Bulls Eastern Conference contenders.