Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 05:18 PM) Ultimately, BG signing in Detroit allows us to definitely be a player in the 2010 FA market. I would much rather have a Bosh/Amare type than Ben Gordon. BG is player that can get you to the playoffs, but he can't help you win a championship IMO because he is a huge defensive liability. So we swap away 7 PPG with Hinrich instead of Gordon, you factor in Kirk's D that difference in scoring could be negligible because Kirk won't let the opponent score as much as Ben. I love Ben Gordon, but this team is better set up for a championship without him and that's the ultimate goal. Problem with your thinking is...Ben Gordon is the perfect player to have on your team at the same time as you have Bosh or (God I hope not, esp. now) Amare. He's the ultimate inside/outside game guy, because teams have to be insane to leave him to double the big guy. Hell, that's why we've wanted a big guy the last 5 years; because Gordon is such a perfect guy to go inside/outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:19 PM) Problem with your thinking is...Ben Gordon is the perfect player to have on your team at the same time as you have Bosh or (God I hope not, esp. now) Amare. He's the ultimate inside/outside game guy, because teams have to be insane to leave him to double the big guy. Hell, that's why we've wanted a big guy the last 5 years; because Gordon is such a perfect guy to go inside/outside. I realize this, but my point I guess is more that without BG you are guaranteed to be in the sweepstakes for one of the bigs, but with Gordon on the roster, you are banking on getting rid of Kirk's contract to be a player and that is no guarantee. I mean in the perfect world, I would love to have Rose, BG, Deng, Bosh, Noah as a starting lineup, but I think BG resigning complicates getting the big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Pistons also sign Villanueva. 5 years, $40 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:23 PM) Pistons also sign Villanueva. 5 years, $40 million. He is very Rasheed like, so that makes sense for them. But they are still a discombobulated team. Edited July 2, 2009 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 05:24 PM) He is very Rasheed like, so that makes sense for them. But they are still discombobulated team. Yeah, they still need another big guy and they're holding too many SG's though. They may still hold on to McDyess, but that's a very small lineup that is going to be outmatched a lot, esp. against Cleveland and Orlando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Bwahaha. The Pistons are going to suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:38 PM) Bwahaha. The Pistons are going to suck. In the past they have won with defense, and now they want to win with offense. Not going to happen with this group. Edited July 2, 2009 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Bulls offered the same money the last 2 years...whatever. If this team's serious about defense anyway then it's for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Good luck in Detroit, BG. I'm not stressing his departure at all. A nice player but not worth the money he got. LeBron is recruiting Artest for the Cavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 LOL, of all of the ways to add payroll, the Grizzlies finally decide to do it to acquire Zach Randolph. I don't even care that they're essentially getting him for free, that's REALLY dumb. Not only is he making $17 mil each of the next two years, he's a malcontent that is arguably the worst defensive big man in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Not trading Kirk for some value, while at the very least doing a sign and trade with BG really sets this franchise back. What a stupid franchise the Bulls have become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 08:38 PM) Bwahaha. The Pistons are going to suck. They will be better than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:07 PM) LOL, of all of the ways to add payroll, the Grizzlies finally decide to do it to acquire Zach Randolph. I don't even care that they're essentially getting him for free, that's REALLY dumb. Not only is he making $17 mil each of the next two years, he's a malcontent that is arguably the worst defensive big man in the league. Puts the clippers under the cap but not very far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 07:09 PM) They will be better than us. I really don't believe that, honestly. Gordon Stuckey Villanueva Hamilton Prince That's their starting lineup right now. Ridiculously undersized. Tyrus could drop 35 on that roster. Let's say they re-sign McDyess. Still, they're ridiculously undersized. They have the MLE available, but they are still ridiculously undersized. And if they sign someone else for PF, then they're consigning either Hamilton, Prince, or Gordon to the bench. Some of those guys may not like that. I know one of them doesn't. Basically, if you want to convince me they'll be better than the Bulls next season, they need to trade Hamilton for a legit PF. Boozer, Bosh, or Amare. They do that, and they're better than the Bulls...if the guy they trade for stays healthy (2 of those guys tend to not). Even if they do that, I'm not convinced they're a top 4 team in the East, but that's what it would take for them to even really look like more than the 7th-8th seed if they're lucky to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 The Bulls will miss Bens scoring, but they can make much better use of the $11 million per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This is all kinds of suck. Rose is going to be a different maker, but Ben Gordon was a hell of an insurance policy. This puts a lot more pressure on Deng and Thomas then I think anyone wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 2, 2009 -> 12:16 PM) I really don't believe that, honestly. Gordon Stuckey Villanueva Hamilton Prince That's their starting lineup right now. Ridiculously undersized. Tyrus could drop 35 on that roster. Let's say they re-sign McDyess. Still, they're ridiculously undersized. They have the MLE available, but they are still ridiculously undersized. And if they sign someone else for PF, then they're consigning either Hamilton, Prince, or Gordon to the bench. Some of those guys may not like that. I know one of them doesn't. Basically, if you want to convince me they'll be better than the Bulls next season, they need to trade Hamilton for a legit PF. Boozer, Bosh, or Amare. They do that, and they're better than the Bulls...if the guy they trade for stays healthy (2 of those guys tend to not). Even if they do that, I'm not convinced they're a top 4 team in the East, but that's what it would take for them to even really look like more than the 7th-8th seed if they're lucky to me. Either Maxiell or Brown would start at the center spot I would think. But they'll have issues at the 4 spot, unless they start Villenueva there, and he ain't much of a defensive player either. As a Magic fan, these 2 signings make me very happy, because the Pistons will be nothing more than a team making up the numbers in the playoffs going forward. I'd also make Gordon the 6th man, start Stuckey and Rip, but I dunno if they'll do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Gordon made them solid but he didn't put him over the top. Losing him forces the Bulls to be serious at getting a start next to DRose. The question is if they'll be able to do that. Hopefully they can cause without Ben the playoffs will be tough (unless other guys make big steps forward). That said the Bulls might be worse off the next year or two but better off down the road. Gordon is a f***ing great scorer though with a great attitude who got better each and every season. I say good luck Ben Gordon and thanks for helping Chicago get back to mediocrity (cause it was a lot better than that s*** of the late 90's early 2000's)!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I'm glad Ben is gone. I firmly believe you can't win a championship with him in your starting lineup, and the Bulls can find much better use of 11 million dollars a year for the next 5 years than Ben Gordon. I know he's a polarizing figure, and I am biased, but good riddance. Have fun in Detroit playing for a team who is going to be stuck in "basketball hell" for a while (playoff team who isn't going any further than that.) Losing Ben will hurt in 2009-2010, but it is for the best in the long run IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Andre Igoudala sure would look nice next to Derrick Rose right now. In other news, Ariza may actually sign with the Cavs, Sheed is talkin to the Celts, the Magic are talkin to Brandon Bass, and the Rockets have offered the "Polish Hammer" the full MLE (which we won't match). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 09:49 PM) I'm glad Ben is gone. I firmly believe you can't win a championship with him in your starting lineup, and the Bulls can find much better use of 11 million dollars a year for the next 5 years than Ben Gordon. I know he's a polarizing figure, and I am biased, but good riddance. Have fun in Detroit playing for a team who is going to be stuck in "basketball hell" for a while (playoff team who isn't going any further than that.) Losing Ben will hurt in 2009-2010, but it is for the best in the long run IMO. If I'm the Bulls I think long and hard about finding a way to move Deng and Hinrich for expirings over the next year and making a major push at landing both Bosh and Wade. Or trade for Bosh early and than find enough room to go after Wade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 2, 2009 -> 12:17 AM) If I'm the Bulls I think long and hard about finding a way to move Deng and Hinrich for expirings over the next year and making a major push at landing both Bosh and Wade. Or trade for Bosh early and than find enough room to go after Wade. Deng is unmoveable right now in my opinion with his contract, similar situation to what the Hawks have with Brian Campbell (although he might be a bit more realistic to move). Trading Hinrich would be a killer for this year because the backcourt is thin enough, but I think they might deal him anyways for the sake of the summer of 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) I'm a bigger fan of Gordon than most, but my God, if Paxson signed him to a 5 year $55 million contract in February, everyone here would have demanded his head. He's a real nice scorer, but if Dumars thinks Gordon and Villenueva are going to take the Pistons back to the top, I have to laugh. Its one more team the Bullies should have no problem being better than the next couple of years. Yeah, long term it's much better and short term I'm not going to worry about it. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 09:33 PM) The Bulls will miss Bens scoring, but they can make much better use of the $11 million per year. It's really just that simple. QUOTE (dbaho @ Jul 2, 2009 -> 12:07 AM) Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Andre Igoudala sure would look nice next to Derrick Rose right now. Doubtful the Bulls would have been as bad with Igoudala and they wouldn't have won the lottery (if they would even be in it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 People are also discounting a major contribution from Hinrich, IMO. After the last two injury-riddled years, Kirk had some big moments in the playoffs. Given starter minutes, there is no doubt in my mind that Kirk can be a 15/5/4 player with great D. That's only 6 PPG less than Gordon. Sure Gordon was a great scorer, but he was barely a 20 PPG guy, couldn't handle the ball and played awful D. You can easily make up Gordon's points elsewhere namely in Rose, Thomas and Noah improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 QUOTE (rangercal @ Jul 1, 2009 -> 09:09 PM) They will be better than us. Not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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