Official 2009-2010 NBA Thread

[nitetrain8601]

Wait, I always thought if they traded Salmons, it would give enough room to squeak under the cap...?

 

If they trade just Salmons for an expiring, they'll get rid of $5,808,000. Say they trade Tyrus for an expiring and draft pick like they're rumored to want to do. That leaves them at $31,850,976. Let's say the cap is at $52 million. Now raises are factored into the previous $31,850,976, but let's look at draft holds. Let's say they get a 15th pick for Tyrus.

 

Say the Bulls draft 17th and 47th which they're currently projected. That means

 

15th pick: $1,398,200

17th pick: $1,261,900

47th pick: $825,497(rough estimate based on league minimum)

 

Right now, the max salary threshold for Wade who will have been in the league between 7-9 years is $16,224,600. If he's signed and traded his number would be roughly at $17,149,243. We will go with the lower number so we can dream big.

 

$31,850,976

$16,224,600

$1,398,200

$1,261,900

$825,497

=

51,561,173

 

Now that roster only includes

PG-Rose/Hinrich

SG-Wade

SF-Deng/J Johnson

PF-Gibson

C-Noah

 

+ 3 other players. If we pay the Minimum to those 3 other players to have at least 12 players, we would be in the luxury tax easily. Heck, I think it works even if we don't trade Ty and just flat out renounce him, but I could be wrong.

 

 

 

[Quin]

If they trade just Salmons for an expiring, they'll get rid of $5,808,000. Say they trade Tyrus for an expiring and draft pick like they're rumored to want to do. That leaves them at $31,850,976. Let's say the cap is at $52 million. Now raises are factored into the previous $31,850,976, but let's look at draft holds. Let's say they get a 15th pick for Tyrus.

 

Say the Bulls draft 17th and 47th which they're currently projected. That means

 

15th pick: $1,398,200

17th pick: $1,261,900

47th pick: $825,497(rough estimate based on league minimum)

 

Right now, the max salary threshold for Wade who will have been in the league between 7-9 years is $16,224,600. If he's signed and traded his number would be roughly at $17,149,243. We will go with the lower number so we can dream big.

 

$31,850,976

$16,224,600

$1,398,200

$1,261,900

$825,497

=

51,561,173

 

Now that roster only includes

PG-Rose/Hinrich

SG-Wade

SF-Deng/J Johnson

PF-Gibson

C-Noah

 

+ 3 other players. If we pay the Minimum to those 3 other players to have at least 12 players, we would be in the luxury tax easily. Heck, I think it works even if we don't trade Ty and just flat out renounce him, but I could be wrong.

 

Well, crap.

[Balta1701]

+ 3 other players. If we pay the Minimum to those 3 other players to have at least 12 players, we would be in the luxury tax easily. Heck, I think it works even if we don't trade Ty and just flat out renounce him, but I could be wrong.

Unless the cap drops to $40 million, that'd be no where near the luxury tax threshold. The fact that all of those guys together come to $52 million is actually a good sign, because it's possible this year's cap could be in that range.

[ZoomSlowik]

If they trade just Salmons for an expiring, they'll get rid of $5,808,000. Say they trade Tyrus for an expiring and draft pick like they're rumored to want to do. That leaves them at $31,850,976. Let's say the cap is at $52 million. Now raises are factored into the previous $31,850,976, but let's look at draft holds. Let's say they get a 15th pick for Tyrus.

 

Say the Bulls draft 17th and 47th which they're currently projected. That means

 

15th pick: $1,398,200

17th pick: $1,261,900

47th pick: $825,497(rough estimate based on league minimum)

 

Right now, the max salary threshold for Wade who will have been in the league between 7-9 years is $16,224,600. If he's signed and traded his number would be roughly at $17,149,243. We will go with the lower number so we can dream big.

 

$31,850,976

$16,224,600

$1,398,200

$1,261,900

$825,497

=

51,561,173

 

Now that roster only includes

PG-Rose/Hinrich

SG-Wade

SF-Deng/J Johnson

PF-Gibson

C-Noah

 

+ 3 other players. If we pay the Minimum to those 3 other players to have at least 12 players, we would be in the luxury tax easily. Heck, I think it works even if we don't trade Ty and just flat out renounce him, but I could be wrong.

 

It appears that you're confusing the salary cap and the luxury tax. While the Bulls would be right against the salary cap, the luxury tax threshold for 2010-2011 is expected to be $65 mil. Using the minimum salary exception, they have WAY more than enough room under the luxury tax to fill out the roster.

[DBAHO]

Jameer Nelson cost us this game tonight, 2 blown lay-ups and numerous TO's. He hasn't been 100% since he had the knee surgery and needs to have some time off.

 

Nice effort to fight back in the 2nd and the 3rd Q's though I guess.

[SoxAce]

Jameer Nelson cost us this game tonight, 2 blown lay-ups and numerous TO's. He hasn't been 100% since he had the knee surgery and needs to have some time off.

 

Nice effort to fight back in the 2nd and the 3rd Q's though I guess.

 

He was just terrible down the stretch. Then again.. I expected a Cavs win all along. I knew Lebron was crazy good, but man did he murder you guys down the stretch. Unless the Celtics find the fountain of youth, and the Magic gives Dwight the ball more, this will probably be a Cavs-Lakers finals.

[DBAHO]

I think we at least have two fairly capable defenders in Barnes and Pietrus to put on him.

 

Basically with the Cavs, you've got to make them a jump shooting team. You give the likes of Varejao and Hickson as many good looks as we did, they'll kill you offensively.

 

But I think we showed that if our shooters get hot, we can give them all kinds of trouble.

 

But then again, I think a lot is gonna ride on how VC performs, because if he struggles offensively, then the rest of the team really does as well.

[Balta1701]

You know who actually does a decent job defending Lebron? Tyrus Thomas. I think you should trade for him.

[DBAHO]

You know who actually does a decent job defending Lebron? Tyrus Thomas. I think you should trade for him.

We'd love to dump Brandon Bass on you for TT.

 

But I couldn't imagine TT picking up SVG's complicated defensive schemes in 3 months.

 

FWIW, it sounds like TT's either going to end up in Charlotte (why when they already have Gerald Wallace and Boris Diaw) or Denver.

 

I think Denver would be a really good fit for him actually. They run the floor, and he'd make for an excellent backup for Melo.

[southsider2k5]

We'd love to dump Brandon Bass on you for TT.

 

But I couldn't imagine TT picking up SVG's complicated defensive schemes in 3 months.

 

FWIW, it sounds like TT's either going to end up in Charlotte (why when they already have Gerald Wallace and Boris Diaw) or Denver.

 

I think Denver would be a really good fit for him actually. They run the floor, and he'd make for an excellent backup for Melo.

 

A place where Tyrus doesn't have to think and has some big scorers around him which allow him to roam would be ideal.

[nitetrain8601]

Unless the cap drops to $40 million, that'd be no where near the luxury tax threshold. The fact that all of those guys together come to $52 million is actually a good sign, because it's possible this year's cap could be in that range.

 

 

It appears that you're confusing the salary cap and the luxury tax. While the Bulls would be right against the salary cap, the luxury tax threshold for 2010-2011 is expected to be $65 mil. Using the minimum salary exception, they have WAY more than enough room under the luxury tax to fill out the roster.

 

I'm not confusing the two, but I know the Bulls will not surpass the cap number. They're looking at it like a hard cap figure because of the looming new CBA for 2011 with contract potentially dropping drastically. The Bulls wouldn't be near the luxury tax threshold in 2010/2011, that's without a doubt. But the thing is, JR & co. do not want to pay any luxury tax unless they have a proven championship team. Yes, that means even Wade and Bosh. The Bulls would surpass the cap of 52 million under the scenario before because they would need at least 2 minimum vet players to fill out the roster. With those two players, they would be paying tax. Hell, why do you think the Bulls didn't add Byars? It's because they do not want to pay any lux tax. I think the articles in the trib and by Ken Berger today support that as they're now trying to unload Luol to be able to afford a 2nd guy.

 

The Bulls are involved in too many scenarios not to make one. Thomas and Salmons are available to any taker and Hinrich continues to draw interest, albeit for the aforementioned non-descript, expiring contract players like the Celtics' Brian Scalabrine and Tony Allen. The Bulls have made it clear to all teams they will not take on extra money in a trade. They also have made it clear they want to move a long-term deal to ensure having enough salary-cap space to offer a maximum free-agent contract this summer.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baske...0,6301615.story

 

In addition to peddling Kirk Hinrich, sources say the Bulls also are exploring interest in Luol Deng, who has four years and $51 million left after this season. Trading both of them – or packaging one of them with Thomas – would provide Chicago with enough cap space to score two max free agents this coming summer, effectively placing them on equal footing with the Heat in the 2010 chase.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/...838893/20035997

 

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Your post makes no sense. In the first part you claim that they won't go over the salary cap because of what might happen two years down the road, but then in the next part with actual quotes they're trying to add at least one max salary player, if not two. If you're really peterified about a $52 mil luxury tax two years down the road, wouldn't you think not paying someone $17-18 mil a year (since it's two years down the road we're factoring in raises) would be a good way to avoid it?

 

If they go the two-max deal route, that'd be over this imaginary $52 mil luxury tax that has yet to happen with two max salaries, Rose, a likely Noah extension and the remaining roster filler. If they moved Hinrich and Salmons, they'd probably be over it with a max deal, Deng, Rose, the same Noah extension and the rest of the roster (even if you got Noah at $6 mil, they'd only have $10 mil left for the other 8 active roster spots). About the only way they could avoid the tax in that scenario is if they didn't make any trades, let everyone walk that expires between now and then and filled out the roster with guys making no more than $5 mil, which might cause rioting among Bulls fans.

 

If the luxury tax really fell that far, they'd be f***ed not matter what they do, so I have a very hard time believing that they wouldn't use the current $52 mil of cap space.

 

Besides, even if they went $10 mil over that theoretical tax they'd still be at roughly the same roster expenses the Bulls had the last few years, so assuming they'd still avoid it like the plague is a pretty major assumption. There's a pretty big difference between not adding an end of the bench guy that won't make an impact to definitively avoid the tax on a team that already has a payroll around $70 mil while struggling with the .500 mark and threatening the long-term health of your team by not spending on starting talent to possibly avoid a tax two years down the road that is almost $20 mil below what you spent the last several years.

Edited February 12, 2010 by ZoomSlowik

[smalls2598]

Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone are finalists for the 2010 Hall of Fame.

[kjshoe04]

He was just terrible down the stretch. Then again.. I expected a Cavs win all along. I knew Lebron was crazy good, but man did he murder you guys down the stretch. Unless the Celtics find the fountain of youth, and the Magic gives Dwight the ball more, this will probably be a Cavs-Lakers finals.

What makes you so sure the Lakers are coming out of the west? My money is on the Nuggets.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone are finalists for the 2010 Hall of Fame.

both will make it in.

[nitetrain8601]

Your post makes no sense. In the first part you claim that they won't go over the salary cap because of what might happen two years down the road, but then in the next part with actual quotes they're trying to add at least one max salary player, if not two. If you're really peterified about a $52 mil luxury tax two years down the road, wouldn't you think not paying someone $17-18 mil a year (since it's two years down the road we're factoring in raises) would be a good way to avoid it?

 

If they go the two-max deal route, that'd be over this imaginary $52 mil luxury tax that has yet to happen with two max salaries, Rose, a likely Noah extension and the remaining roster filler. If they moved Hinrich and Salmons, they'd probably be over it with a max deal, Deng, Rose, the same Noah extension and the rest of the roster (even if you got Noah at $6 mil, they'd only have $10 mil left for the other 8 active roster spots). About the only way they could avoid the tax in that scenario is if they didn't make any trades, let everyone walk that expires between now and then and filled out the roster with guys making no more than $5 mil, which might cause rioting among Bulls fans.

 

If the luxury tax really fell that far, they'd be f***ed not matter what they do, so I have a very hard time believing that they wouldn't use the current $52 mil of cap space.

 

Besides, even if they went $10 mil over that theoretical tax they'd still be at roughly the same roster expenses the Bulls had the last few years, so assuming they'd still avoid it like the plague is a pretty major assumption. There's a pretty big difference between not adding an end of the bench guy that won't make an impact to definitively avoid the tax on a team that already has a payroll around $70 mil while struggling with the .500 mark and threatening the long-term health of your team by not spending on starting talent to possibly avoid a tax two years down the road that is almost $20 mil below what you spent the last several years.

 

Theoritically, they would sign and trade Noah once he gets expensive to make room for Omer Asik. The Bulls, apparently, are really high on him. I personally haven't seen him play, but the Bulls love him.

 

I agree that the Bulls wouldn't be able to afford to max guys down the road, but you don't know what the CBA will be and the Bulls will probably worry about the problem when they get there. If Gar is right and everything works, JR will pay the tax if he has a championship team(meaning a team that has already won the championship), JR will pay the tax. He has never hid that fact. But he won't pay for the LTax if he doesn't have a proven championship team. The Bulls also would probably just keep their future picks(if they get the team they want, they'll be picking in the 20's anyway and probably trade down for upper second rounders) to round out the roster. Thereotically, a team like

 

PG-Rose

SG-Wade

SF-James Johnson/2010 pick

PF-Bosh

C-Whomever/Noah

 

would win with the rest of the squad being filled in with role players and draft picks.

 

I'm pretty sure with the new CBA, I'm pretty sure teams that already have a higher payroll than what would be agreed upon wouldn't have to pay as much of a tax if any as long as they weren't above the previous cap. That's just my own speculation.

 

Believe me, I've thought about the possiblity of two FA's and it doesn't seem plausible if they keep everyone from the "core". Someone brought it up on RealGM. I think it was TommyUdo who is a CBA expert along with Sham who is the expert on the cap. The only way I think it could work is if they sign a Joe Johnson and David Lee. We shall see what happens though.

[nitetrain8601]

BTW, apparently, Butler/Jamison to Celtics for Allen, Scalibrine and JR Giddens is being talked about.

[Chisoxfn]

Your post makes no sense. In the first part you claim that they won't go over the salary cap because of what might happen two years down the road, but then in the next part with actual quotes they're trying to add at least one max salary player, if not two. If you're really peterified about a $52 mil luxury tax two years down the road, wouldn't you think not paying someone $17-18 mil a year (since it's two years down the road we're factoring in raises) would be a good way to avoid it?

 

If they go the two-max deal route, that'd be over this imaginary $52 mil luxury tax that has yet to happen with two max salaries, Rose, a likely Noah extension and the remaining roster filler. If they moved Hinrich and Salmons, they'd probably be over it with a max deal, Deng, Rose, the same Noah extension and the rest of the roster (even if you got Noah at $6 mil, they'd only have $10 mil left for the other 8 active roster spots). About the only way they could avoid the tax in that scenario is if they didn't make any trades, let everyone walk that expires between now and then and filled out the roster with guys making no more than $5 mil, which might cause rioting among Bulls fans.

 

If the luxury tax really fell that far, they'd be f***ed not matter what they do, so I have a very hard time believing that they wouldn't use the current $52 mil of cap space.

 

Besides, even if they went $10 mil over that theoretical tax they'd still be at roughly the same roster expenses the Bulls had the last few years, so assuming they'd still avoid it like the plague is a pretty major assumption. There's a pretty big difference between not adding an end of the bench guy that won't make an impact to definitively avoid the tax on a team that already has a payroll around $70 mil while struggling with the .500 mark and threatening the long-term health of your team by not spending on starting talent to possibly avoid a tax two years down the road that is almost $20 mil below what you spent the last several years.

If the Bulls can get 2 max fa's to work, keep Deng/Noah/Rose....they will most certainly be willing to pay the luxury tax. No f***ing doubt about it. That team would contend and I believe win multiple titles.

 

Jerry won't pay luxury tax for Byars because Byars doesn't make the team ridiculously better.

 

My question is can the Bulls even have enough room under the cap to offer 2 max guys without moving Deng/Hinrich/Salmons? I didn't think there was a way to do it if Deng was on the roster, but I might be wrong?

[Chisoxfn]

Question...I fully expect the Bulls to acquire future 1st round picks, not current ones. In fact, most likely they will deal all of the 1st round picks this year because of the cap hold that is set on those selections.

[ZoomSlowik]

If the Bulls can get 2 max fa's to work, keep Deng/Noah/Rose....they will most certainly be willing to pay the luxury tax. No f***ing doubt about it. That team would contend and I believe win multiple titles.

 

Jerry won't pay luxury tax for Byars because Byars doesn't make the team ridiculously better.

 

My question is can the Bulls even have enough room under the cap to offer 2 max guys without moving Deng/Hinrich/Salmons? I didn't think there was a way to do it if Deng was on the roster, but I might be wrong?

 

It's unlikely. Rose, Deng, Noah, Johnson and Gibson adds up to about $23 mil. Add a couple of cap holds on picks and they're probably pushing $25 mil. That would leave them $26-$28 mil in cap space most likely, which is a bit short unless you convince one of them to take a fair amount less money or both of them to take $13-14 mil to join a contender (seems unlikely). They'd most likely be able to do something like Wade and Boozer/Lee in that scenario, I don't think they could add two of Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Johnson/Stoudemire.

Edited February 12, 2010 by ZoomSlowik

[nitetrain8601]

If the Bulls can get 2 max fa's to work, keep Deng/Noah/Rose....they will most certainly be willing to pay the luxury tax. No f***ing doubt about it. That team would contend and I believe win multiple titles.

 

Jerry won't pay luxury tax for Byars because Byars doesn't make the team ridiculously better.

 

My question is can the Bulls even have enough room under the cap to offer 2 max guys without moving Deng/Hinrich/Salmons? I didn't think there was a way to do it if Deng was on the roster, but I might be wrong?

 

Nope, no way possible without moving Deng. The only good thing about Deng is that, while he takes up a nice chunk of cap, his salary is deferred.

 

Also, again, JR has said, he will not go into the cap until he has a proven winner/championship team. That's why he turned down Gasol when Memphis wanted nothing but expirings.

[nitetrain8601]

Question...I fully expect the Bulls to acquire future 1st round picks, not current ones. In fact, most likely they will deal all of the 1st round picks this year because of the cap hold that is set on those selections.

 

I think it will be future firsts as well unless they feel that getting another mid first means packaging it to slip into the top 8 where they would have a shot at Xavier Henry. If not, they will probably look to stack picks in future years to fill out their roster.

[nitetrain8601]

Apparently, three teams have trades in place for Amare Stoudemire. The Bulls are one of them per Ric Bucher. I'm guessing another is Miami. I wonder who would be the third team.

[Palehosefan]

Apparently, three teams have trades in place for Amare Stoudemire. The Bulls are one of them per Ric Bucher. I'm guessing another is Miami. I wonder who would be the third team.

 

I'm all for the Heat not winning that sweepstakes.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Palehosefan

[nitetrain8601]

Apparently preliminary, don't want to post it.

Edited February 12, 2010 by nitetrain8601