Future makeup of starting rotation

[ParkerBear7]

How about making a run at aquiring Roy Holliday from Toronto and what would take to get a deal done?

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

How about making a run at aquiring Roy Holliday from Toronto and what would take to get a deal done?

 

Hi Parker, Halliday has been on my fantasy teams for years. I for one don't think the Blue Jay's GM will be in selling mode and if he is I don't believe he will part with Halliday. He is literally the face of their franchise and like Peavy in SD has always stated his preference to stay with his team. Even if he were available it would take Beckham, Poreda, Richard, and possibly 2 other MLB ready players IMO.

[chisoxfan09]

Rich Harden on another note (He was the subject of a previous post) was sharp last night with 9 K's. Still too much of an injury risk but hey if he has a great 2nd half for once it might be an interesting option for KW. I think the risk is too high but the little upside that there is indicates Harden can dominate when on his game.

[ILMOU]

I for one don't think the Blue Jay's GM will be in selling mode and if he is I don't believe he will part with Halliday. He is literally the face of their franchise and like Peavy in SD has always stated his preference to stay with his team.

 

Agreed, but this may change still. Long ways to go until 7/31, and if the Rays, BoSox and Yanks make it obvious to the Jays that they're still only a fourth place team, I think he could be dealt.

 

Yes it would take a lot, but he's such a known commodity and such a stud in the toughest of divisions, that it might be worth it.

[ILMOU]

Not really, they are only 2.5 games out of 1st place in the NL Central, and if they can pick up that offense, they could be a pretty tough team. They got some solid pitching, maybe could use one more guy though in the backend of the rotation. However, you put Dye in the reds lineup, and you really improve a ton. Not to mention Encarcion is slated to return within the month as well.

 

A package of Dye and Contreras, plus some cash, would really give them a boost. Contreras can be even better in the NL and gives them some playoff experience, and Dye adds a boost to that offense and adds some protection. Their bullpen has been really solid, and there might be some interest in Dotel, but they'd likely much prefer a starter.

 

Well, we might disagree slightly on the quality of the Reds' team, but let me put it another way - the Reds are a team that's only going to take on additional salary if they're certain that they're really contenders. Maybe they are, but I don't see them pulling the trigger on anything for awhile yet.

 

Quite frankly, there's no rush for the Sox to be sellers, if that even comes to pass. Based on the Sox' recent play, especially the quality of the starting pitching, I'm guessing that KW is in BUY mode. I could see trading Dotel, however, merely because he likely has more value to other teams currently than he does to the Sox, which could provide an opportunity. I, for one, do not think that subtracting Dotel prevents the Sox from being contenders, given the recent performances of Carrasco and Poreda.

 

[witesoxfan]

LOL. I like the way you think. But the Reds wouldn't even consider giving up anything close to that much for two guys on the wrong side of 30, who they'd only have control of for 2-3 months.

 

Seriously. Although there were rumors, I don't think they would have given up Bailey for Dye in the offseason, and I'm not sure why they'd add two extra prospects for Dotel.

[SouthsideDon48]

Stan, here is a quick link from MLB Trade rumors with age (Only right handed Aces (Majority are) that jump out at me are Beckett (Club option), Lackey, Lee (lefty but with club option), Brandon Webb (Done for season but with 2010 club option and huge risk now):

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html

 

Starting pitchers

Brandon Backe (32)

Miguel Batista (39)

Josh Beckett (30) - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Erik Bedard (31)

Kris Benson (34)

Daniel Cabrera (29)

Chris Capuano (31)

Bartolo Colon (37)

Jose Contreras (38)

Doug Davis (34)

Justin Duchscherer (32)

Adam Eaton (32)

Shawn Estes (37)

Josh Fogg (33)

Freddy Garcia (34)

Jon Garland (30) - $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout

Tom Glavine (44)

Mike Hampton (37)

Rich Harden (28)

Mark Hendrickson (36)

Livan Hernandez (35)

Tim Hudson (34) - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Jason Jennings (31)

Jason Johnson (36)

Randy Johnson (46)

John Lackey (31)

Cliff Lee (31) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Braden Looper (35) - option

Rodrigo Lopez (34)

Jason Marquis (31)

Kevin Millwood (35) - Rangers can decline $12MM salary for '10 unless he reaches 180 innings in '09

Brian Moehler (38) - mutual option

Brett Myers (29)

Vicente Padilla (32) - $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout

Chan Ho Park (37)

John Parrish (32)

Carl Pavano (34)

Brad Penny (32)

Odalis Perez (33)

Andy Pettitte (38)

Joel Pineiro (31)

Sidney Ponson (33)

Mark Prior (28)

Horacio Ramirez (30)

Jason Schmidt (37)

John Smoltz (43)

Tim Wakefield (43) - perpetual $4MM club option

Jarrod Washburn (35)

Brandon Webb (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout

Todd Wellemeyer (31)

Kip Wells (33)

Randy Wolf (33)

 

 

I'd go after Doug Davis in a heartbeat. The guy is an unheralded stud. He's always been one of my sleeper-picks in late rounds in fantasy baseball for 3 years now and he never disappointed. I also think he might fare well in the Cell.

[qwerty]

I'd go after Doug Davis in a heartbeat. The guy is an unheralded stud. He's always been one of my sleeper-picks in late rounds in fantasy baseball for 3 years now and he never disappointed. I also think he might fare well in the Cell.

 

 

 

Davis has a 1.5 whip since the start of the 2006 season. A transition to the american league likely would put him in the 4.75 era range. There are people that think the transition from the national league to the american league is overblown. For hitters it is less of a concern than pitchers.

 

Part one.

 

Part two.

 

Most importantly part three.

Edited June 30, 2009 by qwerty

[caulfield12]

Brandon Backe (32)

Miguel Batista (39)

Josh Beckett (30) - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Erik Bedard (31)

Kris Benson (34)

Daniel Cabrera (29)

Chris Capuano (31)

Bartolo Colon (37)

Jose Contreras (38)

Doug Davis (34)

Justin Duchscherer (32) (would have to undergo extensive physical eval though)

Adam Eaton (32)

Shawn Estes (37)

Josh Fogg (33)

Freddy Garcia (34)

Jon Garland (30) - $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout insurance, no way you give him much money, more like bringing back Pods

Tom Glavine (44)

Mike Hampton (37)

Rich Harden (28)

Mark Hendrickson (36)

Livan Hernandez (35)

Tim Hudson (34) - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout see Justin D.

Jason Jennings (31)

Jason Johnson (36)

Randy Johnson (46)

John Lackey (31)

Cliff Lee (31) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout of course, Shapiro would be burned in effigy if he traded Lee to us

Braden Looper (35) - option

Rodrigo Lopez (34)

Jason Marquis (31)

Kevin Millwood (35) - Rangers can decline $12MM salary for '10 unless he reaches 180 innings in '09

Brian Moehler (38) - mutual option

Brett Myers (29)

Vicente Padilla (32) - $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout

Chan Ho Park (37)

John Parrish (32)

Carl Pavano (34)

Brad Penny (32)

Odalis Perez (33)

Andy Pettitte (38)

Joel Pineiro (31) always the type of pitcher who looked a lot better than his actual results on paper, like Gil Meche

Sidney Ponson (33)

Mark Prior (28) revenge on Cubs factor, why not give it a shot, nothing to lose...

Horacio Ramirez (30)

Jason Schmidt (37) see pitchers with injury concerns above...could he have one Cal Eldred 2000 season left?

John Smoltz (43)

Tim Wakefield (43) - perpetual $4MM club option

Jarrod Washburn (35)

Brandon Webb (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout

Todd Wellemeyer (31)

Kip Wells (33)

Randy Wolf (33) but how well could/would he do in the AL?

 

 

One name that hasn't come up at all in this thread is Brian Omogrosso...any thoughts on his future in the organization (probably as a RH set-up guy to replace Dotel I would guess)??

Edited June 30, 2009 by caulfield12

[chisoxfan09]

Another twist to this whole thread about searching for a good RH frontline starter for the Ace (Number 1) or Number 2 position is in this article:

 

www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_archives/15568/20090629/zambrano_would_play_for_white_red_sox/

 

It states Big Z would love to play for the Sox or Red Sox if he ever left the Cubs. Anyone have the patience or stomach for this type of debate? Can Ozzie really tame the savage beast in Zambrano

and make the Venezuelan connection work? Inquiring minds want to know your opinions.

 

On ChicagoSports.com the Cubs fans voted to rid themselves of Z.

Edited June 30, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[Balta1701]

No.

[MHizzle85]

No.

That.

[chisoxfan09]

OK OK my bad. Just looks like an interesting twist to the whole idea of needing or looking for a starter and this pops up. I wonder if he will keep being the clown and get disciplined at some point by the Cubs.

[beck72]

I think the Sox would do very well with what they have in house for 2010. Is Contreras ready for a 1 year deal, with a team option for 2011? I think so. If he continues pitching the way he has since coming back from AAA, he sticks with the sox in 2010.

 

But the question is, would another team take what the sox offered for Jake Peavy? Probably. Yet it's hard to see who would be available. Finances come into play a lot. Toronto has to unload salary. Yet both Wells and Rios have full no trade clauses for 2009 and 2010. As much as Toronto say they want to keep Roy, I don't see how they do it financially. If the Sox have the same deal on the table for Halladay, that they did for Peavy, IMO, Toronto bites on it.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

Beck, but who do we offer? One of Poreda/Richard and then?? I am thinking one more prospect than was offered for Peavy. Need to look at what the Blue Jay s would need and match up wth them. But they are not in slary dumping mode yet and not in dire straits like SD. All I can say is that from what I have read Doc Halliday really is about team and wants a competitive environment and the chance for a ring more than anything a fat contract can offer. I just read a story that quotes their GM as working on offering an extension this off season so the jury is out on whether KW will even approach Toronto about Doc. But the writing is on the wall as far as the AL East is concerned. Don't see the Jays as more than 4th place finishers as long as the Yankees/BoSox have money and the Rays build their team via the farm system.

 

Have a look:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9748020...ut-will-he-stay

 

 

[ILMOU]

As much as Toronto say they want to keep Roy, I don't see how they do it financially. If the Sox have the same deal on the table for Halladay, that they did for Peavy, IMO, Toronto bites on it.

 

God, I hope you're right. If this came to pass, I'd plan on some vacation time in LATE October.

 

[chisoxfan09]

Stan would you part with both Poreda/Richard to even begin the trade talks as part of a package? I think it will take at least 5 quality propsects for the Jays to even think about it. But don't think their needs are the same as SD's. They have some young pitchers and maybe some bats are what they are looking for.

Edited June 30, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[Balta1701]

Beck, but who do we offer? One of Poreda/Richard and then?? I am thinking one more prospect than was offered for Peavy. Need to look at what the Blue Jay s would need and match up wth them. But they are not in slary dumping mode yet and not in dire straits like SD. All I can say is that from what I have read Doc Halliday really is about team and wants a competitive environment and the chance for a ring more than anything a fat contract can offer. I just read a story that quotes their GM as working on offering an extension this off season so the jury is out on whether KW will even approach Toronto about Doc. But the writing is on the wall as far as the AL East is concerned. Don't see the Jays as more than 4th place finishers as long as the Yankees/BoSox have money and the Rays build their team via the farm system.

 

Have a look:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9748020...ut-will-he-stay

With Halladay's age (4 years older than Peavy) and the fact that he's only signed for 1.5 more years, you can't offer the same 4 person package you offered for Peavy. They want Richard and Poreda together I'd do that, but they're not getting beyond that.

 

Which probably means...they're not moving him. At least not to us. I'm not moving 2 potentially solid rotation guys for a guy who's only a 1.5 year signee at age 32.

[BearSox]

I wouldn't mind going after Lackey, even though he is having a rough year. If we could get him on a somewhat cheap 2 year contract, I'd love that. Also, if he does wind up having a rough overall season, he might prefer to take a short term offer to get his value back up, as well as the economy to hopefully get in a better place so he can get a big contract. He's got a bit of an injury concern with him though.

 

Or, wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Harden. Big injury risk, but when healthy, he's preformed well.

 

I also hope we get Charlotte some high upside, low risk pitchers. I'd be all for signing guys like Prior and Cabrera and basically throw s*** to the wall and see what sticks. Also, it'd be a good idea to sign some Vets as well. If Contreras falters and has a tough time finding a team, he could be an option for Charlotte (would also likely team up with Viciedo, so that'd be cool), as well as Garcia and Colon, who'd make a lot of sense because of the past connection with the team. Wouldn't mind getting maybe Estes as well. I feel with vets in AAA, we'll have a solid option to go to if we get injuries. This way, if we are competing, we don't have to throw the young guys straight into the fire.

[beck72]

Beck, but who do we offer? One of Poreda/Richard and then?? I am thinking one more prospect than was offered for Peavy. Need to look at what the Blue Jay s would need and match up wth them. But they are not in slary dumping mode yet and not in dire straits like SD. All I can say is that from what I have read Doc Halliday really is about team and wants a competitive environment and the chance for a ring more than anything a fat contract can offer. I just read a story that quotes their GM as working on offering an extension this off season so the jury is out on whether KW will even approach Toronto about Doc. But the writing is on the wall as far as the AL East is concerned. Don't see the Jays as more than 4th place finishers as long as the Yankees/BoSox have money and the Rays build their team via the farm system.

 

Have a look:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9748020...ut-will-he-stay

Toronto has a $80 mill payroll this year and $81 million committed for 2010, not even taking into account increases due to arbitration players. They are in dire straits. For them to compete, the Blue jays should use the Tampa Rays model-that means developing young players through the draft, trades, etc.

 

[beck72]

With Halladay's age (4 years older than Peavy) and the fact that he's only signed for 1.5 more years, you can't offer the same 4 person package you offered for Peavy. They want Richard and Poreda together I'd do that, but they're not getting beyond that.

 

Which probably means...they're not moving him. At least not to us. I'm not moving 2 potentially solid rotation guys for a guy who's only a 1.5 year signee at age 32.

You're right that the sox probably wouldn't offer the same deal they did for Peavy. Halladay's age and contract wouldn't be worth the loss of talent.

[BearSox]

I think the Sox would do very well with what they have in house for 2010. Is Contreras ready for a 1 year deal, with a team option for 2011? I think so. If he continues pitching the way he has since coming back from AAA, he sticks with the sox in 2010.

I think it's silly to offer anything guaranteed to Contreras, even if he keeps pitching the way he has been. It's just too much of a risk with his age (there's little doubt, IMO, that he isn't at least 2-3 years younger then the 37 years old he's listed as) and injury concerns. Also, I doubt anyone else would offer him much. If Contreras starts to deteriorate, which is still a possibility, he'll likely have to settle for a spring training invite.

 

We basically got 4 spots set with Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, and one of Poreda/Richard (or an ace if we trade for one, and a deal would involve CR/AP). I don't see us using a 4 man lefty rotation. If they were all proven to be effective, I'd be fine with 4 lefties, but you gotta provide more matchups. Some teams mash lefties and imagine playing a 4 game series with all 4 lefties pitching vs. a team that has a bunch of lefty killers on it.

 

But the question is, would another team take what the sox offered for Jake Peavy? Probably. Yet it's hard to see who would be available. Finances come into play a lot. Toronto has to unload salary. Yet both Wells and Rios have full no trade clauses for 2009 and 2010. As much as Toronto say they want to keep Roy, I don't see how they do it financially. If the Sox have the same deal on the table for Halladay, that they did for Peavy, IMO, Toronto bites on it.

 

I'd love to get Halladay, but no way Toronto trades him. He's the face of their franchise, and whenever he pitches, their stadium is packed. Most games in Toronto he pitches, that game likely sells out, or close to it.

 

Odds are they get rid of Rolen, Rios, Wells, etc. even if they don't get great offers, before they get rid of Halladay.

[ILMOU]

Stan would you part with both Poreda/Richard to even begin the trade talks as part of a package? I think it will take at least 5 quality propsects for the Jays to even think about it. But don't think their needs are the same as SD's. They have some young pitchers and maybe some bats are what they are looking for.

 

As much as it would pain me, I'd part with the following to land Big Roy:

 

 

Poreda and Richard

Hudson OR D. Carter

Brandon Allen

Link or a similar level relief pitching prospect (Nathan Jones, Santos Rodriguez?)

 

Maybe you're right about them wanting position players more, but you can't have too much pitching, and it's always very tradeable.

 

We'd still have Flowers/Dayan/Jordanks etc. so we're not too depleted on the farm.

 

I really like Hudson, and I have to believe his prospect status is climbing rapidly.

 

Would this be enough?

 

 

[ILMOU]

Odds are they get rid of Rolen, Rios, Wells, etc. even if they don't get great offers, before they get rid of Halladay.

 

Would be intriguing, if it looked like Q could not return to form in '09, come July 30th.

[BearSox]

As much as it would pain me, I'd part with the following to land Big Roy:

 

 

Poreda and Richard

Hudson OR D. Carter

Brandon Allen

Link or a similar level relief pitching prospect (Nathan Jones, Santos Rodriguez?)

 

Maybe you're right about them wanting position players more, but you can't have too much pitching, and it's always very tradeable.

 

We'd still have Flowers/Dayan/Jordanks etc. so we're not too depleted on the farm.

 

I really like Hudson, and I have to believe his prospect status is climbing rapidly.

 

Would this be enough?

First off, no way we can afford to trade both of Poreda and Hudson. You do that and you completely void this team of any legit pitching prospect. We'd have some interesting guys in Carter, Shirek, Ely, Harrel, etc., but none of them compare to Hudson at this point.

 

However, I think Poreda, Richard, Carter or Ely, and Allen would easily get the deal done for Halladay, but that's only if the Jays are really willingly to deal Halladay. And if they do decide to move Halladay, it'll be in the offseason... In the trade, they'd be getting 2 very good prospects in Allen and Poreda, a decent pitcher in Richard, and a decent spect with Carter or Ely. However, I only make the trade if we have every intention of extending Halladay for another 3-4 years.

 

IMO, with Halladay's make up, we can expect another at least 3-4 good to great years out of him and probably some more decent ones when he is passed 35 or 36.

 

A core rotation of Halladay, Buehrle, Floyd, and Danks would be awesome.