Greg Hibbard Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 hitting: Getz: .243/.303/.338/.641 Fields: .233/.314/.351/.666 fielding: Getz: 6 errors at an easier position/.978 fielding percentage Fields: 8 errors at a tougher position/.941 fielding percentage in one scenario, beckham stays at third, in the other, beckham moves to ss with alexei going to second or beckham moves to second. In one scenario, our speed and flexibility is compromised with fields, but on the other the power numbers and ceiling go way up. Yes, I know we stick with the hot lineup. If and when we come off this streak, does it make sense to rethink some things? I'm not convinced Fields still does have a much higher ceiling, even though he said some stupid things the other week. Fields is an idiot, but he's an idiot capable of hitting 27 home runs a season. Chris Getz arguably has a much lower ceiling and has similar offensive issues. As a side note: is Fields now going to be consigned to a suite in the Anderson Doghouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 01:40 PM) hitting: Getz: .243/.303/.338/.641 Fields: .233/.314/.351/.666 fielding: Getz: 6 errors at an easier position/.978 fielding percentage Fields: 8 errors at a tougher position/.941 fielding percentage in one scenario, beckham stays at third, in the other, beckham moves to ss with alexei going to second or beckham moves to second. In one scenario, our speed and flexibility is compromised with fields, but on the other the power numbers and ceiling go way up. Yes, I know we stick with the hot lineup. If and when we come off this streak, does it make sense to rethink some things? I'm not convinced Fields still does have a much higher ceiling, even though he said some stupid things the other week. Fields is an idiot, but he's an idiot capable of hitting 27 home runs a season. Chris Getz arguably has a much lower ceiling and has similar offensive issues. As a side note: is Fields now going to be consigned to a suite in the Anderson Doghouse? To me, Chris Getz is a little better than Aaron Miles. And that's how his career is going to go. Serviceable, starter if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd prefer Beckham at 2b where he'd be at a premium position for the way he can hit. Let Fields/Nix toil at 3B until hopefully Vicedo figures it out or we get a deal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I'd prefer Beckham at 2b where he'd be at a premium position for the way he can hit. Let Fields/Nix toil at 3B until hopefully Vicedo figures it out or we get a deal done. I'm so sick and tired of this argument. Fine, yeah, he'll be a premium hitter there. But how the f*** does that help the team if Getz is the better option to have in the lineup instead of Fields? I think Beckham will have to move eventually to the MI because I don't think he's a good enough 3B, but right now, you do what's best for the team. And honestly, with Getz being pretty clutch for us lately, having him in the lineup instead of Fields helps the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The problem is we have 4 guys right now we're trying to develop at 3 positions, and it's just impossible to know who's going to succeed. The 2 guys who obviously should get playing time right now are Alexei and Beckham. Getz's ceiling to me seems to be something like a Theriot type player, .290ish hitter, good OBP, occasional power, all around good guy to have one or two of them on the team. Fields...well, you might get a Troy Glaus without the steroids out of him...30ish home runs, lots of k's, decent number of RBI's. Basically though it's really impossible to know whether either of them is going to reach their ceiling without playing time. I haven't a good answer for this. Long-term, I'd like to see Beckham at 2b, but that requires Fields to give us production at 3b, since guys like Getz don't bring a ton back in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 01:40 PM) hitting: Getz: .243/.303/.338/.641 Fields: .233/.314/.351/.666 fielding: Getz: 6 errors at an easier position/.978 fielding percentage Fields: 8 errors at a tougher position/.941 fielding percentage in one scenario, beckham stays at third, in the other, beckham moves to ss with alexei going to second or beckham moves to second. In one scenario, our speed and flexibility is compromised with fields, but on the other the power numbers and ceiling go way up. Yes, I know we stick with the hot lineup. If and when we come off this streak, does it make sense to rethink some things? I'm not convinced Fields still does have a much higher ceiling, even though he said some stupid things the other week. Fields is an idiot, but he's an idiot capable of hitting 27 home runs a season. Chris Getz arguably has a much lower ceiling and has similar offensive issues. As a side note: is Fields now going to be consigned to a suite in the Anderson Doghouse? You gotta throw out the numbers and just compare how they've played. Right now, Chris Getz with Jayson Nix platooning is the easy answer. Getz has come through with some big hits this year, and has a lot better shot at putting the ball in play and hitting a fastball. Fields on the other hand, while he might have more power, is a much worse pure hitter. Fields approach at bat has been pretty bad and him being so prone to the K will only hurt this team. As for the defense aspect, there's little doubt in my mind that we are better defensively with Gordo at 3B with Getz and Nix at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 since when is 3b a tougher position defensively? Yeah you have to deal with screaming line drives, but major league players should be able to handle those. 2B involves ranging quite a bit to both your left and right, which I think takes a bit more athletic ability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) I'm so sick and tired of this argument. Fine, yeah, he'll be a premium hitter there. But how the f*** does that help the team if Getz is the better option to have in the lineup instead of Fields? I think Beckham will have to move eventually to the MI because I don't think he's a good enough 3B, but right now, you do what's best for the team. And honestly, with Getz being pretty clutch for us lately, having him in the lineup instead of Fields helps the team. Irrational to say he will have to change positions (which i think he will... though not likely this season) based off a total of 21 games at third in the major leagues, and in total 29 games between the majors and the minors. Neither you or anyone else has seen nearly enough of him to have even a semi decent grasp of what we have on ours hands defensively. Sample sizes are are no ones friend. Edited June 30, 2009 by qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Getz fits the needs of the team better right now. Getz gives the team a bat who makes contact most of the time, can handle the bat a bit, and can run. Fields is another one dimensional power bat. With the middle of the line up that we have, we need guys who are threats in other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) since when is 3b a tougher position defensively? Yeah you have to deal with screaming line drives, but major league players should be able to handle those. 2B involves ranging quite a bit to both your left and right, which I think takes a bit more athletic ability I think of 3b as being slightly tougher because typically you have less reaction time. For RH batters (the majority of hitters), if they hit it to the right side they are pulling the ball at a higher velocity whereas if they hit it to the left side they are hitting it off the end of the bat at a lower velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:21 PM) Getz fits the needs of the team better right now. Getz gives the team a bat who makes contact most of the time, can handle the bat a bit, and can run. Fields is another one dimensional power bat. With the middle of the line up that we have, we need guys who are threats in other ways. I intangibly agree with this, but if Fields was hitting .250 and projected to hit 30 homers, would you feel like you could bench him for a different type of hitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) I intangibly agree with this, but if Fields was hitting .250 and projected to hit 30 homers, would you feel like you could bench him for a different type of hitter? Maybe if we don't replace guys like Thome, Dye, and Konerko. But right now, we don't need the thumpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:37 PM) Maybe if we don't replace guys like Thome, Dye, and Konerko. But right now, we don't need the thumpers. Podsednik, Beckham, Ramirez all aren't thumpers. We have some other guys more like Getz in our lineup too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) Podsednik, Beckham, Ramirez all aren't thumpers. We have some other guys more like Getz in our lineup too. The finisher for me is that there is about zero chance Fields could play second base decently. He doesn't have any quickness or range at third, and would actually require more at second. We don't need to downgrade defensively at yet another position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd rather have Bacon at 2nd simply because his hitting has more value there and I think his defense will be pretty comparable at 2nd or 3rd anyways. I don't think Fields or Getz is an everyday player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) I intangibly agree with this, but if Fields was hitting .250 and projected to hit 30 homers, would you feel like you could bench him for a different type of hitter? Of course he would be playing if he was hitting .250 and projected to his 30 homers... but he's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (qwerty @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) Irrational to say he will have to change positions (which i think he will... though not likely this season) based off a total of 21 games at third in the major leagues, and in total 29 games between the majors and the minors. Neither you or anyone else has seen nearly enough of him to have even a semi decent grasp of what we have on ours hands defensively. Sample sizes are are no ones friend. He just screams MI to me. He's should he can play a somewhat decent 3B so far, but I'm not sure he has the reaction time or reflexes to be a good one there. I think his skill set is much more suited for either SS or 2B. But for now, there is no reason to move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 A good debate, yes. For me, the jury is still out. I THINK I know what we have in Fields. Not passing judgement completely yet on Getz. Agree with Balta that his ceiling is a lefty Theriot, which would be just dandy if the OBP is good. This would be a lot better than an Aaron Miles obviously, but he could go either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) Of course he would be playing if he was hitting .250 and projected to his 30 homers... but he's not. In that case, the type of hitter he is has nothing to do with the conversation, because typically speaking that's what sluggers do...they hit about .250 and 25-30 jacks. See Joe Crede without the defense. My point is that Getz at 2b and Fields at 3b seem exactly comparable, even though they are different types of player. The difference in my eyes is that Getz is always going to be this Graffanino low ceiling player and Fields obviously has the ability to crush the ball if he gets his s*** together and have a way higher OPS. I'm not sold that the "intangibles" (which I admittedly like in Getz) justify the opportunity cost of Fields' ceiling. The defensive downgrade of playing Beckham at 2b and Fields at 3b v. playing Beckham at 3b and Getz at 2b seems negligible to me as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 One more thing: really, really hope Nix hits well enough to stick as the utility guy. He's likely our best defender at three positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) I'm so sick and tired of this argument. Fine, yeah, he'll be a premium hitter there. But how the f*** does that help the team if Getz is the better option to have in the lineup instead of Fields? I think Beckham will have to move eventually to the MI because I don't think he's a good enough 3B, but right now, you do what's best for the team. And honestly, with Getz being pretty clutch for us lately, having him in the lineup instead of Fields helps the team. And as i've said 10x before, I'm not talking about TONIGHTS f***ing game, I'm talking about the future. Getz is great and all, but Bacon at 2b = gold mine while Bacon at 3b = pretty solid player. Dayan, Allen, Danks2, TCQ, Mitchell (hopefully), Flowers (possibly)....where are they all going to play? They are mostly corner OF or corner IF, you don't keep a guy who can play a perfectly good 2B from blocking a power hitter with limited defensive options because Getz is "grindy". Now if Getz can start hitting .270+ and steal some bases, fine. But I don't see the point in slobbering over an 8th place hitter batting .240. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) One more thing: really, really hope Nix hits well enough to stick as the utility guy. He's likely our best defender at three positions. If he keeps up what he has been doing, he'll be sticking around. He really deserves more playing time, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 30, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) In that case, the type of hitter he is has nothing to do with the conversation, because typically speaking that's what sluggers do...they hit about .250 and 25-30 jacks. See Joe Crede without the defense. My point is that Getz at 2b and Fields at 3b seem exactly comparable, even though they are different types of player. The difference in my eyes is that Getz is always going to be this Graffanino low ceiling player and Fields obviously has the ability to crush the ball if he gets his s*** together and have a way higher OPS. I'm not sold that the "intangibles" (which I admittedly like in Getz) justify the opportunity cost of Fields' ceiling. The defensive downgrade of playing Beckham at 2b and Fields at 3b v. playing Beckham at 3b and Getz at 2b seems negligible to me as well The thing is, Fields has shown no ability what-so-ever to be the .250, 30 home run hitter in the past 2 years. And quite frankly, it'll never happen unless one morning he finally finds out how to hit a fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think this is an issue that is till playing itself out. We have at least a couple more players in the Minors that may be here within a year or so and then we will be trying to figure out how they all fit in this line up. Danks in CF? Viciedo at 3B? Allen at 1B? Ramirez at SS? Getz at 2B? Beckham at 3B-SS or 2B? Maybe Getz becomes the super sub? To early to be sure on this yet. Maybe somebody gets traded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Getz plays a little third, so if we did move Bacon to 2B/SS and needed someone at the hot corner, Getz can play there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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