iamshack Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:21 PM) Let us also remember we aren't that far removed from the scouting scandals. I'm guessing the organization is going to move really carefully before opening up the check book. The scouting scandals occur with unknown Latin American players....these Cubans are guys that play on the World stage all year long at a professional level. All high-level baseball officials have a grasp of who these guys are, unlike some 16 year old ss from some tiny town in Venezuela that no one has really seen before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:24 PM) The scouting scandals occur with unknown Latin American players....these Cubans are guys that play on the World stage all year long at a professional level. All high-level baseball officials have a grasp of who these guys are, unlike some 16 year old ss from some tiny town in Venezuela that no one has really seen before. Then I wonder why there are so many questions about this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Texsox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:25 PM) Then I wonder why there are so many questions about this guy. I'm not sure that any questions really exist. The Cubans have no incentive to allow their players to falsify their ages. In fact, they would have more incentive to get the ages correct, as older players have less value to Major League teams and thus gives the player less incentive to defect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 01:17 PM) I don't believe that is true. These are international free agents, not players selected in the amatuer draft. I believe the Sox have control over Alexei through 2011 and Viciedo through 2012. Someone on this board said this before, I don't remember who it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) Someone on this board said this before, I don't remember who it was. Yeah, it's not true...I posted their contract terms off the top of my head, but went and confirmed at Cot's Baseball Contracts. You can go there whenever you'd like to know the terms of a mlb contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) Someone on this board said this before, I don't remember who it was. The same rules apply for signed players either through the amateur draft or international market. Once you are signed, you falls into the labor agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:01 PM) If he's 21, how in the hell would Contreras be able to guarantee he throws that hard? He would've been about 15 when Contreras got out of Cuba. You can see in this WBC video that he hits 100 MPH. http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...during-wbc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 If they bring this kid in and he is really hitting 102/103 with some sort of control and/or breaking stuff, the bidding will start at $50 million and go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Cubano @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) The same rules apply for signed players either through the amateur draft or international market. Once you are signed, you falls into the labor agreement. That's not true. Players that are drafted in the amatuer draft are treated differently than those signed as amatuer free agents or international free agents. Guys like Jose Contreras, who were not subject to the amatuer draft are not required to fulfill 6 years of service time. They sign contracts and are the property of the team only for the terms of the contract, much like regualr free agents. After 2011, Alexei will be free to sign with any team, regardless of whether he ever would have sniffed the Major Leagues or not, as his contract was for 4 years, and not based upon Major League service time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) That's not true. Players that are drafted in the amatuer draft are treated differently than those signed as amatuer free agents or international free agents. Guys like Jose Contreras, who were not subject to the amatuer draft are not required to fulfill 6 years of service time. They sign contracts and are the property of the team only for the terms of the contract, much like regualr free agents. After 2011, Alexei will be free to sign with any team, regardless of whether he ever would have sniffed the Major Leagues or not, as his contract was for 4 years, and not based upon Major League service time. Reports indicte that Rick Hahn himself indicated that the Sox have Rameriz and Viciedo for 6 years. It was discussed in at least two threads, the only one I can find right now with a google search is from Viciedo's AAP page. EDIT: See Post #7. Edited July 3, 2009 by Disco72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I'd love him for the Viciedo price range as people have mentioned, but anything more is too much of a risk on an unknown like this. Sure, he has had solid numbers in Cuban ball, but it's a huge jump to the majors. The way he throws, he also seems like a big risk of injury. Too many potential risks to give him anything more than $10 million over four years or so. Let the Red Sox and Yankees outbid themselves and then have him not make in the majors. Ask the Red Sox how Mr. Untouchable in Japan (Matsuzaka) is doing for them. One average year, one great year and one horrible, injury-riddled year. I think it's clear that the $20 million per year they are paying him (combining his salary and posting fee) is clearly an overpay. Edited July 4, 2009 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 01:42 PM) Reports indicte that Rick Hahn himself indicated that the Sox have Rameriz and Viciedo for 6 years. It was discussed in at least two threads, the only one I can find right now with a google search is from Viciedo's AAP page. EDIT: See Post #7. The specific difference is that some international guys, like Matsui, Contreras, Matsuzaka, Iguchi have clauses in their contracts which state that at the end of their contract, they will be granted their outright release. Teams do not have to insert that clause. Without that clause, the player goes through the normal arbitration process and can not become a FA until the normal time.. With that clause, the team is forbidden from offering the player arbitration. If some team offers him a contract with that clause, it may be hard to beat. With Alexei, we were the only ones offering him a contract, so it was pretty easy to avoid putting it in. With Viciedo, no one was going to offer him that clause because then he could be a full free agent at age 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Reports indicte that Rick Hahn himself indicated that the Sox have Rameriz and Viciedo for 6 years. It was discussed in at least two threads, the only one I can find right now with a google search is from Viciedo's AAP page. EDIT: See Post #7. Interesting. I hadn't seen that, so if that is indeed true, my apologies. I don't know how that could be true, however. Players not eligible for the draft are not required to perform 6 years of mlb service time, as far as the Labor Agreement states. That being said, I am not on retainer by the Player's Union or MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubano Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Contreras may be the link to Chapman. http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...ed-aroldis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Jose, get on the phone, and do a better job than Linebrink!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) If they bring this kid in and he is really hitting 102/103 with some sort of control and/or breaking stuff, the bidding will start at $50 million and go up. From what I've seen and read, he might have been able to hit 102 or 103 at certain points, but from video I've seen, he sits in the mid to high 90's (can reach back and get up 99-100 when he wants) and really does have a lot of work to do regarding control and maybe his mechanics. He is no where near as polished as Contreras or Matsuzaka were, and I doubt he'll get a deal anywhere near either of them. Count and DiceK where both MLB ready and people who could contribute right away. Chapman, while he has great stuff, it probably at least a year way, at least in a starters role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 04:26 PM) I'd love him for the Viciedo price range as people have mentioned, but anything more is too much of a risk on an unknown like this. Sure, he has had solid numbers in Cuban ball, but it's a huge jump to the majors. The way he throws, he also seems like a big risk of injury. Too many potential risks to give him anything more than $10 million over four years or so. Let the Red Sox and Yankees outbid themselves and then have him not make in the majors. Ask the Red Sox how Mr. Untouchable in Japan (Matsuzaka) is doing for them. One average year, one great year and one horrible, injury-riddled year. I think it's clear that the $20 million per year they are paying him (combining his salary and posting fee) is clearly not an overpay. I wouldn't be opposed to offer Chapman up to 20 million altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan09 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 There are now some rumors this kid may actually be 26 instead of 21. If that is the case then lying is not gonna impress KW or JR in KW´s fforts to get him to approve the finances for a contract offer if we make one. JR I gotta believe would have to approve spending the money. Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/sports/b...n%20&st=cse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocking Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (Cubano @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 06:50 PM) Contreras may be the link to Chapman. http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...ed-aroldis.html Too bad there is a good chance Jose is gone after this year. Let's hope that doesnt end ugly like most sox departures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 So who's the better prospect at this point? Yu Darvish or Aroldis Chapman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) Jose, get on the phone, and do a better job than Linebrink!!!!!! Are you really mad that Linebrink didn't do a good enough job with Peavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 03:23 PM) Are you really mad that Linebrink didn't do a good enough job with Peavy? No, not now at least... but I was just pointing out, Linebrink must have not been that great of a salesman, and I hope Contreras is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) So who's the better prospect at this point? Yu Darvish or Aroldis Chapman? Darvish is a lot more refined, while I’d say Chapman has more raw potential. I’d still give it to Darvish for major league readiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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