New Afghanistan Thread

[southsider2k5]

Again. Read the article.

 

I read the article. It is circular logic at its best. People have tried to solve Afghanistan. They failed, therefore everyone will fail in Afghanistan. Great.

 

The funny part was in the article they blamed the failure of our government to protect us, which has failed us many times, but they seem to still think they are going to save us all, despite the history that tells us they can't protect us all.

 

The funny thing is, if a stable government had been in Afghanistan, we wouldn't have had to worry about another inevitable security failure in our own government.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Terrorists are going to be around indefinitely. If we "solve" Afghanistan they'll take root elsewhere. We simply can't invade every 3rd world country when we find out that terrorist cells are within their borders.

[lostfan]

I read the article. It is circular logic at its best. People have tried to solve Afghanistan. They failed, therefore everyone will fail in Afghanistan. Great.

 

The funny part was in the article they blamed the failure of our government to protect us, which has failed us many times, but they seem to still think they are going to save us all, despite the history that tells us they can't protect us all.

 

The funny thing is, if a stable government had been in Afghanistan, we wouldn't have had to worry about another inevitable security failure in our own government.

We actually kind of created that Frankenstein... not intentionally but we had no endgame in our minds when we were doing it. Now this has been going on for 30 years and it doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon. It's fair to ask whether it's even worth the effort right now. Like I said I'm still optimistic about it.

[lostfan]

Zawahiri is offering a truce if American troops leave the Muslim world.

 

lmao, go f*** yourself Zawahiri.

[Balta1701]

Another interesting note.

US expenditure budget for Afghanistan this year is to be $65 billion; I'm not sure how much NATO and other countries add to that. The US budget alone is more than 5 times the Afghan GDP of $12.5B ($400 per capita).

[lostfan]

Word on the street is that Baitullah Mehsud (Pakistani Taliban leader) is done. If true, and it looks like it is, that's a pretty big deal.

[Balta1701]

So what happens when we host an election next door to Iran and the results wind up looking a lot like what happened in Iran? What do we do?

Dr. Abdullah Abdullah, a key presidential candidate and former foreign minister, has said he wont accept election results if President Hamid Karzai wins the vote.

 

The second behind the incumbent president in the partial results announced by the Independent Election Commission (IEC), Abdullah alleged on Saturday the fraud in the August 20 ballot was unprecedented.

 

At a gathering attended by hundreds of his campaigners from six southern provinces, the contender charged the historic election was massively rigged in favour of President Hamid Karzai.

 

Local administration and IEC officials, governors and international organisations' workers were part of the irregularities in polls -- the second in Afghanistan's history.

 

Supporters of the ex-minister claimed ballot boxes already stuffed were brought to polling stations in several provinces. The use of fake registration cards, multiple voting and men voting for women were widespread, they charged.

 

Dr. Abdullah, who branded Karzai as a fraud master, assured the votes he had received from the people would never be used a tool of bargaining for a position in the government.

 

"If the democratic process does not survive, then Afghanistan doesn't survive," Abdullah said, adding he would refuse to recognise the outcome. He said the international community was concerned the drawn-out elections could worsen security.

Whether it was officially "Stolen" or not I can't say, but there are reports that the violence/threats of violence in some provinces kept turnout there at 10% or below. Those failures would be counted under international standards as leading to an illegitimate election on their own.

[Balta1701]

The results of nearly 450 Afghan polling stations have been declared invalid so far, and at least 150,000 votes have been thrown out so far. Meanwhile, karzai is slowly closing in on the "50%" he would need to avoid a runoff.

 

What a complete mess.

[southsider2k5]

The results of nearly 450 Afghan polling stations have been declared invalid so far, and at least 150,000 votes have been thrown out so far. Meanwhile, karzai is slowly closing in on the "50%" he would need to avoid a runoff.

 

What a complete mess.

 

I wonder if Karzai got together with Achmendijad?

[Balta1701]

And Karzai has reportedly passed 50% of the ballots thanks to his gigantic fraud. That means the election commission will basically need to overturn the results and order a new election, since there won't be a runoff unless the whole thing is thrown out.

With 91.6 percent of the polling stations counted, they said, Mr. Karzai had won 54.1 percent of the vote, and his main challenger, the former foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah, won 28.3 percent. The tally, if certified, would mean that Mr. Karzai would be declared the victor without need for a runoff.

 

But officials from the Independent Election Commission said they had set aside results from hundreds of polling stations where irregularities were suspected, and it appeared possible that the investigations into fraud could change the results.

 

 

...

Afghans loyal to Mr. Karzai set up hundreds of fictitious polling sites where no one voted but where hundreds of thousands of ballots were still recorded toward the president’s re-election, Western and Afghan officials in Afghanistan said this week. Besides creating the fake sites, Mr. Karzai’s supporters also took over approximately 800 legitimate polling centers and used them to fraudulently report tens of thousands of additional ballots for Mr. Karzai, the officials said.

 

The result, the officials said, is that in some provinces, the pro-Karzai ballots may exceed the people who actually voted by a factor of 10. “We are talking about orders of magnitude,” a senior Western diplomat said. “This was fraud en masse.”

 

In Mr. Karzai’s home province, Kandahar, preliminary results indicate that more than 350,000 ballots have been turned in to be counted, but the Western officials estimated that only about 25,000 people actually voted there. More than 2,300 complaints of electoral misconduct have been lodged with the commission.

[Balta1701]

There was an incident last weekend where the NATO force in Afghanistan bombed a fuel truck that the Taliban had stolen, and at the same time wound up killing like 80 civilians who were taking fuel from the truck after it had gotten stuck.

 

That debacle has already had international implications. The strike was ordered by a German commander, and Germany is facing an election in a few weeks. That country's Afghanistan policy has now become an issue in that campaign, although the opposition has yet to call for anything resembling a full pullout or reshaping of policy.

[NorthSideSox72]

Lots of Afghanistan talk in the blanket threads, so I am resurrecting this one.

 

Let's open with this. The US military launched its first major offensive in Afghanistan since the announcement of the new troop surge. The operation is called "Cobra's Anger".

 

Seriously? What is this, a Van Damme movie?

 

[lostfan]

Lots of Afghanistan talk in the blanket threads, so I am resurrecting this one.

 

Let's open with this. The US military launched its first major offensive in Afghanistan since the announcement of the new troop surge. The operation is called "Cobra's Anger".

 

Seriously? What is this, a Van Damme movie?

The November '04 Fallujah operation was called Operation Phantom Fury. Which is quite possibly the most badass name for a military operation in the history of ever.

[BigSqwert]

The US military launched its first major offensive in Afghanistan since the announcement of the new troop surge. The operation is called "Cobra's Anger".

 

Seriously? What is this, a Van Damme movie?

Perhaps they're hoping Hollywood will help fund this operation and later give them the rights to use the title for a GI Joe sequel.

Edited December 4, 2009 by BigSqwert

[southsider2k5]

New Afganistan? Are we admitting them to the union?

[NorthSideSox72]

New Afganistan? Are we admitting them to the union?

They will become a burough of Hawaii.

 

[lostfan]

In response to the idea that the Taliban would "lay low" for the 18 months between now and July '11 Gates said something to the effect that "it would be terrific if they did that" because of all the things the U.S. military could get accomplished by not being in combat. In reality I don't even think that's realistic, they say that like the Taliban can make an arbitrary choice between being defeated and not being defeated out of convenience?

[NorthSideSox72]

In response to the idea that the Taliban would "lay low" for the 18 months between now and July '11 Gates said something to the effect that "it would be terrific if they did that" because of all the things the U.S. military could get accomplished by not being in combat. In reality I don't even think that's realistic, they say that like the Taliban can make an arbitrary choice between being defeated and not being defeated out of convenience?

Sounds to me like he's taunting them a bit.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

The November '04 Fallujah operation was called Operation Phantom Fury. Which is quite possibly the most badass name for a military operation in the history of ever.

 

My cousin was part of Operation Anaconda.

[GoSox05]

This article is about Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pretty good read.

 

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091207/scahill

[lostfan]

This article is about Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pretty good read.

 

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091207/scahill

Well it's not a SECRET anymore... f***ing hell I hate it so much when people leak classified information or ongoing sensitive operations to the media on condition of anonymity. People should be sent to prison for that.

[lostfan]

My cousin was part of Operation Anaconda.

I wanted to go to Afghanistan when that was going on so bad.

 

Phantom Fury is still a cooler name than Anaconda

Edited December 4, 2009 by lostfan

[Controlled Chaos]

I wanted to go to Afghanistan when that was going on so bad.

 

Phantom Fury is still a cooler name than Anaconda

I agree...I do wonder where they get the names though.

[lostfan]

I agree...I do wonder where they get the names though.

The major names (Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom, etc.) are mostly picked for PR purposes so it's going to be someone off the NSC if not the president himself. The other names probably come from the major command's staff of whoever's responsible for the operation. I don't know how exactly they get the names, I think they have a generic list actually and they just go down the line.

[NorthSideSox72]

The major names (Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom, etc.) are mostly picked for PR purposes so it's going to be someone off the NSC if not the president himself. The other names probably come from the major command's staff of whoever's responsible for the operation. I don't know how exactly they get the names, I think they have a generic list actually and they just go down the line.

I recall reading an article some years back, that except for the few really high profile ones, operations are named using a random name generator. Thus, you ended up with operations with names like "tractor rose", etc.