caulfield12 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Seems like a good idea to have Jayson Nix playing everyday at 2B if he's going to continue to put up a mid 800's OPS, especially with Getz and Anderson stuck between 625-650 OPS for weeks. Of course, maybe that high OPS is because of favorable match-ups created by Guillen...but then the reverse is also true, he hasn't gotten into a rhythm and had the opportunity to get consistent AB's but he's still producing, unlike BA, who seems to need to play everyday with his bigger swing. Pro's of Nix: better power, better defense, better arm and range, could make Ramirez better? Pro's of Getz: LH hitter, balances line-up, always hustles, grinder, better #2 contact hitter/execution/fundamentals, better speed TOO BAD we can't combine them into one switch-hitting player and build the ideal 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Yeah, maybe we can combine them in 50 years once the technology allows us to. I'd definitely play Nix more now that Getz doesn't seem like he's able to get over the .250 mark. And Nix has an above average OPS+ compared to Getz's below average one. Only bad thing about Nix is that he does struggle against right handed pitchers and Getz is favorable against them. So if we keep at it at what it is right now, I wouldn't mind. But I'd definitely like to see Nix more. Edited July 3, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 against lefties at 2b.... spell alexei, becks here and there, get him in LF at times. i think it's the best we can do. at the very least we have some pop off the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Ramirez ain't moving from SS, so I'll throw out the idea of putting Alexei in CF with Nix or Gordo at SS and 3B. However, I would be willingly to sacrifice some D and move Pods to CF and Nix to LF (if he shows he can be a better LF than Pods) and really stack the O. It's pretty obvious we don't have a good D, so we can handle a little more dropoff if we are upgrading in offense from Anderson/Wise to Nix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 Well, the thing that doesn't make much sense about playing Jayson in the OF or 3B is that he's the perfect middle infielder, Gold Glove caliber at 2B and above average (probably better than Alexei or Beckham) at SS as well. But I do get why Ozzie might choose to play him as a DH/LF/3B/RF/SS over Josh Fields if he's trying to get more offensive punch in the line-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 12:52 AM) Well, the thing that doesn't make much sense about playing Jayson in the OF or 3B is that he's the perfect middle infielder, Gold Glove caliber at 2B and above average (probably better than Alexei or Beckham) at SS as well. But I do get why Ozzie might choose to play him as a DH/LF/3B/RF/SS over Josh Fields if he's trying to get more offensive punch in the line-up. I agree, but Ozzie already stated he ain't moving Alexei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'd have Nix backing up at 2B and SS still and playing at least 2 times a week for Getz. Getz had a decent enough June after a bad May, so I don't think there's a major reason for him to be benched ATM. If needed, Nix can get playing time elsewhere if he continues to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 01:00 AM) I agree, but Ozzie already stated he ain't moving Alexei. But he also stated that Pods would never play CF either...in 2006. Getz had a decent enough June after a bad May, so I don't think there's a major reason for him to be benched ATM. But isn't more than half of his hits going for extra bases (six homers in under 100 AB's), better defense and an OPS 200+ points higher a pretty compelling reason to start Nix over Getz? It isn't like Getz has as high of a ceiling as Jayson if they were to both reach their potential...and the age difference isn't huge. I understand Chris came up through our system, but at a certain point it's hard to overlook that level of production. Especially when there are still two line-up holes (Anderson/Getz) at under a 650 OPS. Edited July 3, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I can see Nix playing vs. LHP. Get him some favorable match ups vs. them. But he's probably never going to hit like a regular, with career minor league line of .260/. 332/. 415. He's also only hitting .194 with an OBP of .268 vs RHP. Getz, meanwhile, has a better chance of reaching his potential as an everyday player, with a line of .286/.361/.381. in the minors. He's hitting better vs. RHP, .249 with an OBP of .312. Getz should see the majority of time at 2b, with most pitchers being RHP, and Nix playing vs LHP. Over time, both may improve their splits. Until then, play the match ups. Edited July 3, 2009 by beck72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Please never say grinder again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I thought Nix was winning the job in the spring until his quad injury. I'm all for Nix starting for a while to see what he can do. Getz would still be very helpful to the team as the utility guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Amazing how fan perceptions change when a guy has a few good (or bad) games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Nix STILL has a .685 OPS against RHP...which is a bit better than Getz. We're talking small sample sizes in his career...although the minor league numbers could be SOMEWHAT indicative. We should also keep in mind he was 0 for 17 in his career against LHP coming into this season and 7 for 39 against RHP. Nobody can argue Jayson doesn't play better defense...so I don't think it's quite so clear why we are giving 65-75% of the AB's to Getz over Nix. Amazing how fan perceptions change when a guy has a few good (or bad) games. But is ANYONE calling for Josh Fields to get more AB's after his two homer game or solo homer this past week? I think this phenomenon is especially true in the case of Alexei Ramirez defensively and many posters wanting to move him off SS. He's still projected to have "only" 20 errors at SS, which isn't close to as many errors as Jose Valentin committed on a yearly basis. Edited July 3, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Nix's superior defense is a good reason why he should be the regular second baseman. The defense as a whole has been horrid and Nix would certainly help stabilize the defense up the middle. He has gotten the job done with the bat as well, and has more pop than Getz. Until he shows he can't handle it, he should get the bulk of the starts at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 09:33 AM) I thought Nix was winning the job in the spring until his quad injury. I'm all for Nix starting for a while to see what he can do. Getz would still be very helpful to the team as the utility guy. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) Amazing how fan perceptions change when a guy has a few good (or bad) games. 1.) It's been more than a few games. Everytime Nix has had a shot at some playing time, he's produced offensively and defensively. 2.) Nix would have been the starting 2B out of ST if not for his injury. He was raking during ST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 11:30 AM) 1.) It's been more than a few games. Everytime Nix has had a shot at some playing time, he's produced offensively and defensively. Reality.... a grand total of 3 games ago, (on the morning of June 30th... only 3 days ago) he had season batting average of .219. QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 11:30 AM) 2.) Nix would have been the starting 2B out of ST if not for his injury. He was raking during ST. Perspective. Nix only had 13 at-bats during spring training. Meanwhile, Getz had 75 at-bats and hit .333 with a .390 OBP. That was the 3rd best batting average on the team during spring training. Edited July 3, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 03:33 PM) I thought Nix was winning the job in the spring until his quad injury. I'm all for Nix starting for a while to see what he can do. Getz would still be very helpful to the team as the utility guy. That is a good point but I think Nix is the super sub and it should stay that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 03:57 PM) Amazing how fan perceptions change when a guy has a few good (or bad) games. We live in the moment around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) That is a good point but I think Nix is the super sub and it should stay that way Why? If Nix has the better OPS against RHP's AND plays significantly better defense at 2B, what's the strongest argument for Chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 05:51 PM) Why? If Nix has the better OPS against RHP's AND plays significantly better defense at 2B, what's the strongest argument for Chris? Nix's OPS against RHP is only .651, and in 38 at bats he's hitting .181 against them. Getz is hitting .244 against RHP and currently has an identical .651 OPS until his next AB against Greinke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) Nix's OPS against RHP is only .651, and in 38 at bats he's hitting .181 against them. Getz is hitting .244 against RHP and currently has an identical .651 OPS until his next AB against Greinke. But doesn't a middle infielder that plays Gold Glove defense and hits 18-24 homers per season (let's say Nix is similar to Juan Uribe, maybe a higher walk %) more valuable in our park than Chris Getz? After all, we did make the playoffs twice with Juanie, despite his deficiencies. If they're equal in OPS (small sample size arguments cut both ways), the only arguments are that Chris balances the line-up, has more speed/stolen base ability and is a better contact hitter/execution/bunting/fundamentals. Or wouldn't it be better just to give up on Wise/Anderson (defensive sub) and see what Nix could do playing everyday in CF for 2-3 weeks....before KW possibly trades for another veteran CFer. Edited July 4, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 01:51 AM) Why? If Nix has the better OPS against RHP's AND plays significantly better defense at 2B, what's the strongest argument for Chris? So Avg. and OBP aren't important for 2b? You don't include that, why? Because it doesn't fit your argument. Nix has a small sample vs RHP because he looks like Lillibridge vs. them. You can make all your arguments for Nix over Getz. I'll take Ozzie and Kenny's view that Getz has a brighter future going forward, and that is why Getz is still playing over Nix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Who would you rather have playing 2B everyday for the remainder of the season, Chris Getz, Juan Uribe (assuming we could get him back) or Jayson Nix? Nice job Wise...it's not like Olivo is famous for having a BAD arm, geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 4, 2009 -> 02:11 AM) Who would you rather have playing 2B everyday for the remainder of the season, Chris Getz, Juan Uribe (assuming we could get him back) or Jayson Nix? Nice job Wise...it's not like Olivo is famous for having a BAD arm, geez. It's not either, or, or let's get the band back. It probably will be Getz vs RHP, and Nix vs LHP, as long as both hit vs. their splits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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