Rex Kickass Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If conservatives don't want to be seen as being "stupid or not intellectual," maybe they should stop running with such an anti-intellectual bent when it comes to the way they play politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 12:16 PM) I can fire back some data in to this discussion. Not exactly on the CEO question, but occasionally (and conveniently enough, 2 days ago) people put out surveys of the political leanings of the educated. At least out of active members of the American Academy for the Advancement of Science (actual working scientists). They're Democrats by a 55 to 6 margin. Is this expanded? I'd be curious to see the rest. % of people with political science degrees, % of doctors, lawyers, and so on. I read somewhere that economists are mostly liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 09:19 AM) Is this expanded? I'd be curious to see the rest. % of people with political science degrees, % of doctors, lawyers, and so on. I read somewhere that economists are mostly liberals. I can point you to a different survey for economists. The Economist survey of an economic number of economist on the economic proposals of the 2 non-economists running for President of, among other things, the economy. Our survey is not, by any means, a scientific poll of all economists. We e-mailed a questionnaire to 683 research associates, all we could track down, of the National Bureau of Economic Research, America’s premier association of applied academic economists, though the NBER itself played no role in the survey. A total of 142 responded, of whom 46% identified themselves as Democrats, 10% as Republicans and 44% as neither. This skewed party breakdown may reflect academia’s Democratic tilt, or possibly Democrats’ greater propensity to respond. Still, even if we exclude respondents with a party identification, Mr Obama retains a strong edge—though the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that 530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think that's the article I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 10:40 AM) All "conservatives" are "stupid" as defined by the MSM, whether they are or not. Liberals, on the other hand, are the most intelligent people on earth. Alan Keyes is probably both the smartest and most conservative politician alive. I've heard him criticized aplenty, but NEVER called dumb. Huckabee is pretty-right wing too, no? I haven't heard anyone attack his IQ either. And what about that Pat Buchanan guy? Never exactly heard him lumped in with Dan Quayle. Imho: Palin, Quayle, Bush II, Rangel, Pelosi = STOOPID Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes a dumbass is just a dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 11:25 AM) Alan Keyes is probably both the smartest and most conservative politician alive. I've heard him criticized aplenty, but NEVER called dumb. Any man who advocates that every American should be allowed to own a machine gun in their home is dumb. Declaring "the front line of the war against terror once again involves the citizens," Republican Alan Keyes said Tuesday he believes the U.S. Constitution grants properly trained private individuals the right to own and carry machine guns. "You're not talking about giving citizens access to atom bombs and other things," the former presidential candidate said. "That's ridiculous." But the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate argued the founding fathers intended the Second Amendment to allow people to carry the types of weapons "customarily carried in those days by ordinary infantry soldiers." Edited July 10, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 11:27 AM) Any man who advocates that every American should be allowed to own a machine gun in their home is dumb. Well, I was trying to keep issues and ideology out of it, but yeah, I don't think that's a real good idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Peggy Noonan on Palin: In television interviews she was out of her depth in a shallow pool. She was limited in her ability to explain and defend her positions, and sometimes in knowing them. She couldn't say what she read because she didn't read anything. She was utterly unconcerned by all this and seemed in fact rather proud of it: It was evidence of her authenticity. She experienced criticism as both partisan and cruel because she could see no truth in any of it. She wasn't thoughtful enough to know she wasn't thoughtful enough. Her presentation up to the end has been scattered, illogical, manipulative and self-referential to the point of self-reverence. "I'm not wired that way," "I'm not a quitter," "I'm standing up for our values." I'm, I'm, I'm. "She's not Ivy League, that's why her rise has been thwarted! She represented the democratic ideal that you don't have to go to Harvard or Brown to prosper, and her fall represents a failure of egalitarianism." This comes from intellectuals too. They need to be told something. Ronald Reagan went to Eureka College. Richard Nixon went to Whittier College, Joe Biden to the University of Delaware. Sarah Palin graduated in the end from the University of Idaho, a school that happily notes on its Web site that it's included in U.S. News and World Report's top national schools survey. They need to be told, too, that the first Republican president was named "Abe," and he went to Princeton and got a Fulbright. Oh wait, he was an impoverished backwoods autodidact! America doesn't need Sarah Palin to prove it was, and is, a nation of unprecedented fluidity. Her rise and seeming fall do nothing to prove or refute this. "The elites hate her." The elites made her. It was the elites of the party, the McCain campaign and the conservative media that picked her and pushed her. The base barely knew who she was. It was the elites, from party operatives to public intellectuals, who advanced her and attacked those who said she lacked heft. She is a complete elite confection. She might as well have been a bonbon. "She makes the Republican Party look inclusive." She makes the party look stupid, a party of the easily manipulated. "She shows our ingenuous interest in all classes." She shows your cynicism. "Now she can prepare herself for higher office by studying up, reading in, boning up on the issues." Mrs. Palin's supporters have been ordering her to spend the next two years reflecting and pondering. But she is a ponder-free zone. She can memorize the names of the presidents of Pakistan, but she is not going to be able to know how to think about Pakistan. Why do her supporters not see this? Maybe they think "not thoughtful" is a working-class trope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 09:25 AM) Alan Keyes is probably both the smartest and most conservative politician alive. I've heard him criticized aplenty, but NEVER called dumb. Huckabee is pretty-right wing too, no? I haven't heard anyone attack his IQ either. And what about that Pat Buchanan guy? Never exactly heard him lumped in with Dan Quayle. Pat Buchanan is a fairly intelligent completely blatant racist SOB. He was the guy who came up with the GOP's "Southern Strategy" of tongue-in-cheek appeals to White racists that helped the Republican party to 30 years of dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 That doesn't make him stupid, it just means he supports some dumb ideas. Even dumber that he tried to link it to fighting terrorism. lol. There is no reason for the average American to have a machine gun or any automatic weapon, honestly, and I'm a big 2A supporter. The only reason you'd need to use one is if you need to spray on a crowd and kill as many people as possible as fast as you can, that's what they're used for in combat. How many people need to do that? Military, sometimes police. And also people whose houses are getting stormed by like 12-15 terrorists close together, which is pretty much... nobody. So yeah, dumb idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 12:39 PM) Pat Buchanan is a fairly intelligent completely blatant racist SOB. He was the guy who came up with the GOP's "Southern Strategy" of tongue-in-cheek appeals to White racists that helped the Republican party to 30 years of dominance. Man I listen to Buchanan on MSNBC sometimes and I'm like "how in the hell did this guy manage to get a large following, and basically to subtly repeat white supremacist rhetoric on TV? WTF?" It's like no one notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) That doesn't make him stupid, it just means he supports some dumb ideas. Even dumber that he tried to link it to fighting terrorism. lol. There is no reason for the average American to have a machine gun or any automatic weapon, honestly, and I'm a big 2A supporter. The only reason you'd need to use one is if you need to spray on a crowd and kill as many people as possible as fast as you can, that's what they're used for in combat. How many people need to do that? Military, sometimes police. And also people whose houses are getting stormed by like 12-15 terrorists close together, which is pretty much... nobody. So yeah, dumb idea. There is however the paradoxical issue that 2A was most primarily intended as a check against oppresive government. In that vein, as was stated in the Miller case opinions, it's natural conclusion is the protection of the most powerful weapons available. Obviously, this needs to be tempered by not only technology, but also simple public safety. And therein lies the paradox. So, as nuts and as intelligent as Keyes is, I can't fault him for making this particular argument, except for the silly terrorist angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Also, important point - someone's level of education is not the same as their level of intelligence. Nor does it give you the depth of color in regards to various aspects of intelligence, some of which do not handle schooling well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I don't agree with too much of what Keyes, Buchanan, Huckabee or Peggy Noonan espouse, but I can concede they are all highly intelligent folks. I do think Keyes is a bit of a nut, but I'm intelligent enough to have come to that opinion on my own, without having been sold that by the MSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Just as NSS pointed out the difference between intelligence and education, I think there's a clear difference between intelligence (capacity for thought) and how much someone actually uses that capacity. When someone gets on a heavy ideological bent, they're not thinking critically because they're blindly applying pre-determined conclusions to every situation. QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) That doesn't make him stupid, it just means he supports some dumb ideas. Even dumber that he tried to link it to fighting terrorism. lol. There is no reason for the average American to have a machine gun or any automatic weapon, honestly, and I'm a big 2A supporter. The only reason you'd need to use one is if you need to spray on a crowd and kill as many people as possible as fast as you can, that's what they're used for in combat. How many people need to do that? Military, sometimes police. And also people whose houses are getting stormed by like 12-15 terrorists close together, which is pretty much... nobody. So yeah, dumb idea. Or to shoot pumpkins and watermelons. NSS hit on the common theme in most libertarian and conservative arguments for less restrictive gun access -- defense against an oppressive state. You might say "what chance does a 'militia' with some M-16's have against the US Army?" but then we can look to Iraq or Afghanistan to see how well a technologically and numerically inferior fighting force can cause havoc or to Iran for how defenseless protesters are being gunned gown by armed thugs. There's a strong anti-government theme ("all regulations are bad" and "private business can always do better at everything always") in the lib/con movements, so its not too surprising to see that they'd want protection from what could become an oppressive and illegitimate government. I'm ok with the situation as it is now -- there's a lot of red tape and it is expensive, but you can purchase a fully-automatic weapon. Since they've been heavily restricted ('34 or '36?), there's only been one murder committed with a legally-owned one and it was by an off-duty cop. The high price of ownership and stringent background checks helps to assure that only people who are interested in it as a hobby and not gang bangers can purchase these guns legally. Edited July 10, 2009 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If the government ever got oppressive to the point that the military was involved against the populace I think you'd see mass defections and it (the military) would fall apart. At the same time the military should never be led to believe it's in charge of anything besides what it's told to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 12:27 PM) Any man who advocates that every American should be allowed to own a machine gun in their home is dumb. That's completely your opinion (which I happen to agree with you however) and therefore irrelevant. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who believe someone advocating war, abortion, death penalty, TORUTRE (for Balta), universal healthcare, marijuana legalization etc is dumb too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If you guys are saying that the media is liberal, which it looks like you are, then you need to stop referring to them as the mainstream. It's getting really old. Just say liberal media and get it over with, for the love of all that's holy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 i must be the only one who remembers alan keyes vs. Obama in the senate race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) i must be the only one who remembers alan keyes vs. Obama in the senate race. Well, honestly that's the first time I've ever heard anyone use "Alan Keyes" and "intelligent" in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 There is a scary thought, and Death is not an option... Roland Burris or Alan Keyes as your Senator... I will say that is one spot where Indiana can LOL at a lot of states. Bayh and Lugar are a very impressive pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 05:29 PM) There is a scary thought, and Death is not an option... Roland Burris or Alan Keyes as your Senator... I will say that is one spot where Indiana can LOL at a lot of states. Bayh and Lugar are a very impressive pair. I think Lugar is awesome. I thought you hated Bayh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:31 PM) I think Lugar is awesome. I thought you hated Bayh? I do, but I can respect his national standing. He gets a ton of respect around the state and in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) There is a scary thought, and Death is not an option... Roland Burris or Alan Keyes as your Senator... I will say that is one spot where Indiana can LOL at a lot of states. Bayh and Lugar are a very impressive pair. In the names of Douglas, Simon, and Dirksen, what has happened to the Illinois Senators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:38 PM) In the names of Douglas, Simon, and Dirksen, what has happened to the Illinois Senators? $$$$$$$ The same thing that has happened to the entire state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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