Upgrade at 2b via Trade

[beck72]

Few position player options are out there that seem ripe for the sox to upgrade. The sox are rolling and have Quentin likely coming back in LF. Yet one spot is at 2b, with the Getz/ Nix platoon holding water. I've always liked Getz, and think he'll be a fine regular. Yet the sox can make a small move that could yield big results.

 

Felipe Lopez from the D-Backs is said to be available, as he's only signed for 2009. He signed for $3.5 mill, which means the sox could offer him arb. and get picks back for him.

Right now, he's hitting .299/.355/.405. A switch hitter, he can also play SS, [which would be good insurance in case Alexei went down]. He's also a top of the order hitter, leading off this year, with a .311 avg. and .366 OBP from there. In case Pods gets hurt, the sox would be in bad shape at the top, with no apparent replacement.

 

I'm not sure the price in terms of talent. They could use someone for 2b, and maybe the OF. I could see something along the lines of Nix, Brian Anderson [who played college ball in AZ], and a minor league prospect having a good year but might not be a good fit long term for the sox [maybe a FB pitcher]. And the sox could afford to pay the rest of his salary without a problem--owed something like $1.5 mill. I'd like the sox to hold onto Getz, but I can see Ariz. wanting him as a key piece.

 

I know Freddy Sanchez is another name out there, as well. He's owed more this year $6 mill total, [a little less than $3 mill this year] and has a $8 mill. 2010 option, that is picked up if he gets 600 ab's.

 

Thoughts?

[BearSox]

Getz/Nix is fine for the rest of the year. The only move I'd make is perhaps is for a 3B like Scott Rolen and move Slayer to 2B.

 

However, for next year, I think we'll see Alexei in CF (Now, I think he'd make a better OF than INF), and Beck at SS. Getz/Nix is decent, but I would love to make a play for the O-Dog and stick him in the 2 hole.

[TheHolyBovine]

Good post.

 

Lopez and Sanchez are essentially the same player. However, Lopez is cheap, and wouldn't cost us anything beyond this year.

 

I'd like us to stay far away from Sanchez. Career OBP of .338, on the wrong side of 30, and has a very expensive option that automatically vests. No thanks.

[beautox]

Sanchez would be a great fit for this team.

 

Hes 31, and could help propel us to another division title; also he would be a nice player to have while third base fleshes itself out(Dayan, Morel) with Gordon eventually moving to second.

 

I don't think it would take to much to get him; especially if you offer to pick up snell along the way and take on all the payroll.

 

 

[rangercal]

I'd rather go for a top tier starting pitcher.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Lopez is going to bring in a couple good prospects, so I don't think the it's worth the Upgrayedd over the double dose of pimpin' at 2B with Getz and Nix. I really think if we continue to leave them out there we'll end up with some value to deal over the offseason if we decide to slide Beckham over for 2010 and going forward.

 

I want no part of Freddy Sanchez. He's a good hitter, but he's overrated and also overpaid when his option vests.

 

The only upgrades I'd really look forward to would be long-term solutions in the rotation, CF, RF, or 3B with Gordon moving to 2B. Short-term deals where we give up prospects don't work for me. Our pen has the ability to be possibly the best in baseball on talent alone. Jenks, Dotel, and Linebrink from the right side, plus Thornton and Poreda from the left side, with Carrasco doing a great job as a LR. This could be the best bullpen we've had down the stretch that I can remember, as even in '05 Marte fell apart and Hermanson got hurt. We had 3 awesome late-inning guys and another good LR, but this year we have a chance to have 5 awesome late inning guys if Liney steps it up.

 

I'd like to throw one thing out there, but it's kind of scary, but kind of interesting too IMO. What about Alex Rios? Over the offseason the Jays were rumored to be offering a good prospect or young pitcher just to get someone to take Rolen off their hands. They really need to ditch some of their large, long-term contracts, and nobody would even come close to trading for Wells. My question is, if the Jays offered us Rios *and* threw in a very good prospect (not Snider or anything, but a guy who would rank in our top-10 with star potential), *and* if we could get him for basically nothing, like a package of bodies centered around Fields and Russell or something, would you do that deal? I actually might really consider it, and I'd probably make it, despite the contract. Alex Rios is a natural CF who only moved because of Vernon Wells. He's signed at basically $12M/year through 2014 (through his Age 33 season, so right through his prime). A year ago I would have wet my pants just thinking about getting him for a fair package, and I would have s*** myself and then rolled around in it and then ate some of it if someone had told me we'd be able to get him for nothing *and* get a top prospect in return, but this year, in this economy, that actually sounds doable. He'd be our long-term CF and he has the potential to, in a new environment that is a hitter's park, start hitting for power like was projected to all along. He could also play in RF too if we wanted to go with an OF of CQ-D2-Rios. It would be the ultimate high risk/high reward move, because if he can get back to putting up his 2007 numbers in the Cell through his prime, that's nothing but awesomeness, especially in CF. All he has to do is have one monster year for that deal to look like a bargain even in this economy, but right now it seems like the perfect storm for him to be dumped for garbage.

[beck72]

Getz/Nix is fine for the rest of the year. The only move I'd make is perhaps is for a 3B like Scott Rolen and move Slayer to 2B.

However, for next year, I think we'll see Alexei in CF (Now, I think he'd make a better OF than INF), and Beck at SS. Getz/Nix is decent, but I would love to make a play for the O-Dog and stick him in the 2 hole.

The sox aren't going to ask Gordon to learn how to play 2b this year-another position he hasn't played. He's playing decently at 3b and his bat has come around. So an upgrade at 3b isn't coming this year.

 

[beck72]

Good post.

 

Lopez and Sanchez are essentially the same player. However, Lopez is cheap, and wouldn't cost us anything beyond this year.

I'd like us to stay far away from Sanchez. Career OBP of .338, on the wrong side of 30, and has a very expensive option that automatically vests. No thanks.

That's what I was thinking. The sox could still stick with Getz for 2b next year. I like him at 2b for the long term. Though who knows what the sox will do with Beckham. But Lopez would help the sox this year, and net the sox draft picks as they should be able to offer him arb, [which he'd decline as he stands to make a decent increase from his $3.5 mill].

[beck72]

Sanchez would be a great fit for this team.

 

Hes 31, and could help propel us to another division title; also he would be a nice player to have while third base fleshes itself out(Dayan, Morel) with Gordon eventually moving to second.

 

I don't think it would take to much to get him; especially if you offer to pick up snell along the way and take on all the payroll.

The sox would likely be paying Sanchez $8 mill for them in 2010. I think that is grossly overpaying in this economy. The sox have options in the IF that being stuck with a large contract for 2010 may not make sense. I think Sanchez would be good for this year. It's just next year that's the problem.

 

And they wouldn't get anything back for Sanchez like they would with Lopez. No way would the sox offer him arb after 2010, as he'd accept it.

[beck72]

Lopez is going to bring in a couple good prospects, so I don't think the it's worth the Upgrayedd over the double dose of pimpin' at 2B with Getz and Nix. I really think if we continue to leave them out there we'll end up with some value to deal over the offseason if we decide to slide Beckham over for 2010 and going forward.

 

I want no part of Freddy Sanchez. He's a good hitter, but he's overrated and also overpaid when his option vests.

 

The only upgrades I'd really look forward to would be long-term solutions in the rotation, CF, RF, or 3B with Gordon moving to 2B. Short-term deals where we give up prospects don't work for me. Our pen has the ability to be possibly the best in baseball on talent alone. Jenks, Dotel, and Linebrink from the right side, plus Thornton and Poreda from the left side, with Carrasco doing a great job as a LR. This could be the best bullpen we've had down the stretch that I can remember, as even in '05 Marte fell apart and Hermanson got hurt. We had 3 awesome late-inning guys and another good LR, but this year we have a chance to have 5 awesome late inning guys if Liney steps it up.

 

I'd like to throw one thing out there, but it's kind of scary, but kind of interesting too IMO. What about Alex Rios? Over the offseason the Jays were rumored to be offering a good prospect or young pitcher just to get someone to take Rolen off their hands. They really need to ditch some of their large, long-term contracts, and nobody would even come close to trading for Wells. My question is, if the Jays offered us Rios *and* threw in a very good prospect (not Snider or anything, but a guy who would rank in our top-10 with star potential), *and* if we could get him for basically nothing, like a package of bodies centered around Fields and Russell or something, would you do that deal? I actually might really consider it, and I'd probably make it, despite the contract. Alex Rios is a natural CF who only moved because of Vernon Wells. He's signed at basically $12M/year through 2014 (through his Age 33 season, so right through his prime). A year ago I would have wet my pants just thinking about getting him for a fair package, and I would have s*** myself and then rolled around in it and then ate some of it if someone had told me we'd be able to get him for nothing *and* get a top prospect in return, but this year, in this economy, that actually sounds doable. He'd be our long-term CF and he has the potential to, in a new environment that is a hitter's park, start hitting for power like was projected to all along. He could also play in RF too if we wanted to go with an OF of CQ-D2-Rios. It would be the ultimate high risk/high reward move, because if he can get back to putting up his 2007 numbers in the Cell through his prime, that's nothing but awesomeness, especially in CF. All he has to do is have one monster year for that deal to look like a bargain even in this economy, but right now it seems like the perfect storm for him to be dumped for garbage.

A few things:

 

*I don't mind the Getz/ Nix platoon. It's serviceable. But what happens if Pods goes down? 2b can get the sox insurance in case of injury for leadoff/ #2 hitter. Alexei is doing well hitting 2nd. Yet Lopez could also fill in there.

 

*I'd love a long term option for the sox in CF, RF, 3b. But that is likely coming in the offseason. Say the sox get on OFer at the deadline, who is leftout? Pods? Q? Dye? Pods has to be out there with his bat. Same goes with SP. I don't see a name that fits what the sox were looking for, though I'd love the sox to upgrade there.

 

*Rios is an interesting name. Yet his bat doesn't match his contract, both in dollars and years. And he has a complete NTC for the next 2 years. IIRC, Rios is a natural RF, and doesn't have the speed/ range/ etc for CF. Vernon Wells is in the same boat as Rios--long term deal, NTC, big money for little production. IMO, I'd rather have Wells but I still don't think the sox would take on his deal.

[DBAHO]

Lopez ain't exactly good defensively though, which has been the main knock on him.

 

Right now, if Getz and Nix continue to hit as they have lately, I don't see a major need to give up some spects like Dan Hudson for a 3 month rental.

[beck72]

Lopez ain't exactly good defensively though, which has been the main knock on him.

 

Right now, if Getz and Nix continue to hit as they have lately, I don't see a major need to give up some spects like Dan Hudson for a 3 month rental.

I was thinking with the inconsistency of Getz's defense [though he is fundamentally solid and should improve], even Lopez wouldn't be a big drop off.

 

I, too wouldn't trade any top pitching prospects for Lopez, like Hudson. But the sox have filler that are putting up solid numbers but may not fit in the sox plans, due to being FB pitchers, SP's with not solid 3rd pitches, etc. Like Jhonny Nunez, McCulloch, etc.

[GreatScott82]

Honestly i'm okay with Getz at 2b. I really wanted Freddy Sanchez a couple of weeks ago when Getz was struggling pretty bad, but ever since the Sox brought up Beckham- Getz has really picked up his game. I read somewhere that Getz and Beckham are students of the game and spend a lot of time watching tape and studying opposing pitching- something rare for very young players.

 

We get Quentin back after ASB if all goes well. That should be the best addition to an already solid lineup. As far as making a deal goes, a top of the rotation pitcher is what the doctor ordered. I'm not sure if KW will do such a thing, but damn our rotation would be stellar with one more top of the rotation guy.

[beck72]

Honestly i'm okay with Getz at 2b. I really wanted Freddy Sanchez a couple of weeks ago when Getz was struggling pretty bad, but ever since the Sox brought up Beckham- Getz has really picked up his game. I read somewhere that Getz and Beckham are students of the game and spend a lot of time watching tape and studying opposing pitching- something rare for very young players.

 

We get Quentin back after ASB if all goes well. That should be the best addition to an already solid lineup. As far as making a deal goes, a top of the rotation pitcher is what the doctor ordered. I'm not sure if KW will do such a thing, but damn our rotation would be stellar with one more top of the rotation guy.

I too like Getz. Esp. for 2010. With one year under his belt, I'd see him hitting .280 with an .350 OBP.

 

I'm just finding it hard to see who is the top of the rotation guy available via trade.

 

And, while our lineup is solid now, I don't see someone else leading off if Pods gets hurt. Which, given his injury history, is very possible. With the pitching being as stellar as it has been, I'd hate to see the sox fail to advance because of the hitting. I liken it the Sox going into Spring with only Owens, BA and Wise as the CFers. Everyone knew their ceilings were very limited. Yet Kenny didn't bring in anyone else. Now might be the time to bring in another top of the order bat. It would be preferable for CF, esp for the future. Yet Pods is probably going to man CF for the rest of the year, barring injury.

[BearSox]

The sox aren't going to ask Gordon to learn how to play 2b this year-another position he hasn't played. He's playing decently at 3b and his bat has come around. So an upgrade at 3b isn't coming this year.

Beckham has played 2B in the past and is a MI by trade. We won't be shifting him around from position to position, but a move from 3B to 2B would be like nothing.

[beck72]

Beckham has played 2B in the past and is a MI by trade. We won't be shifting him around from position to position, but a move from 3B to 2B would be like nothing.

Maybe in the offseason. But they've already asked him to learn a new position. He's handled that fine. The Sox aren't going to ask him to learn a new one, during a pennant race, now that he's hitting and fielding well at 3b. This is on-the-job training at a new position is a rare feat for the big leagues. Most position changes occur during Spring training so they can get the extra practice. The Sox should leave Beckham alone now that he's adjusted both at the plate and in the field.

[WCSox]

There's no point in moving Beckham to 2B unless the Sox trade for a stud. And Scott Rolen isn't that guy. He's in his mid-30's, has been on the decline for years, and hasn't played more than 115 games since 2006. I don't see the Sox acquiring a veteran 3B any time soon.

 

And has been said earlier, forcing Beckham to learn a third position in his rookie year is a bad idea. That's not the kind of pressure that you want to put on a rookie. If, say, Omar Minaya lost his mind and traded David Wright to the Sox, Beckham would be sent back to the minors.

 

[BearSox]

Yes, there is so much pressure putting him back in the MI where he is most comfortable, but no pressure in asking him to play a spot he never really played before.

 

The guy is a hitter, and moving him back to 2B and keeping him there would be absolutely no deal. Maybe it'd take a one or two day learning curve to get used to 2B, but he can easily handle it.

[WCSox]

Yes, there is so much pressure putting him back in the MI where he is most comfortable, but no pressure in asking him to play a spot he never really played before.

 

SS and 2B are completely different positions.

 

The guy is a hitter, and moving him back to 2B and keeping him there would be absolutely no deal. Maybe it'd take a one or two day learning curve to get used to 2B, but he can easily handle it.

 

Have you ever played organized baseball?

 

[BearSox]

SS and 2B are completely different positions.

If you can play a decent SS, you can play either 3B or 2B with little problem. And in fact, the switch to 2B is probably easier than the switch to 3B.

 

Have you ever played organized baseball?

 

Yes, and I would play wherever the coach put me. I still remember one year I played all 9 spots throughout the whole year, and it never effected me because I know what I'm doing out there. If you know baseball, it really isn't that tough to change positions. Of course it's a lot different at the MLB level and takes a longer learning curve, but if you aren't baseball retarded, you should be able to handle it. And I hope Beckham isn't so mentally fragile that he takes his defensive play up to bat with him.

[RibbieRubarb]

We should have signed Orlando Hudson...But I am happy with Nix/Getz.

[BearSox]

We should have signed Orlando Hudson...But I am happy with Nix/Getz.

Yep. The O-Dawg would look really good in the 2-hole right now.

[chisoxfan09]

People are starting to feel Getz may not be an everyday but I disagree since he is a rookie. He does make good contact and has started to be agressive on the base paths. It is a hard situation to describe this year as to whether we are competing now or building for the future. I tend to feel we are building for the future but if we win the division that will be great also.

[WCSox]

If you can play a decent SS, you can play either 3B or 2B with little problem. And in fact, the switch to 2B is probably easier than the switch to 3B.

 

Yes, WITH WEEKS OF PRACTICE. Beckham played 3B for weeks in the minors (under less pressure, and he didn't play 3B well initially in the majors), not on the ridiculous two-day window that you're proposing. I also don't agree with your blanket statement of the adjustment from SS to 2B is easier than SS to 3B. Much of that depends on the player's skill set (arm strength, reflexes, athleticism, etc.).

 

Yes, and I would play wherever the coach put me. I still remember one year I played all 9 spots throughout the whole year, and it never effected me because I know what I'm doing out there. If you know baseball, it really isn't that tough to change positions. Of course it's a lot different at the MLB level and takes a longer learning curve, but if you aren't baseball retarded, you should be able to handle it.

 

Playing a position effectively in the Majors requires a much more significant adjustment than what your Little League coach expected. Ozzie and Kenny aren't as patient or forgiving.

 

And I hope Beckham isn't so mentally fragile that he takes his defensive play up to bat with him.

 

Yeah, because there's no pressure whatsoever for a first-round pick to field three different positions in his rookie season. Even the most mentally-tough professionals (in any field) feel significant pressure to perform, as their careers and financial security depend heavily on their initial performances. Following your logic, there would be no need for top prospects to develop in the minors. Because if they can't make the necessary adjustments right off the bat in the pros, they're "mentally fragile" and shouldn't be playing baseball.

Edited July 4, 2009 by WCSox

[BearSox]

Yes, WITH WEEKS OF PRACTICE. Beckham played 3B for weeks in the minors, not on the ridiculous two-day window that you're proposing. I also don't agree with your blanket statement of the adjustment from SS to 2B is easier than SS to 3B. Much of that depends on the player's skill set (arm strength, reflexes, athleticism, etc.).

Weeks of practice? Beckham had maybe a little bit over a week at 3B before he got called up. And why exactly couldn't Beckham handle 2B? He'd have more reaction time, has plenty of range, is pretty athletic, and would have plenty of arm strength at 2B. I guarantee he's played more at 2B in his life than he has at 3B.

 

Playing a position effectively in the Majors requires a much more significant adjustment than what your Little League coach expected. Ozzie and Kenny aren't as patient or forgiving.

I already stated that my experience is obviously different than the majors. I guess you missed that part.

 

 

Yeah, because there's no pressure whatsoever for a first-round pick to field three different positions in his rookie season. Even the most mentally-tough professionals (in any field) feel significant pressure to perform, as their careers and financial security depend heavily on their initial performances. Following your logic, there would be no need for top prospects to develop in the minors. Because if they can't make the necessary adjustments right off the bat in the pros, they're "mentally fragile" and shouldn't be playing baseball.

What the hell are you talking about? First off, Beckham isn't like every other rookie. And I don't think Beckham has to worry about financial situations anytime soon, with his 2+ million dollar bonus last year and the fact that even if he doesn't turn into a superstar, he'll still make a decent sum of money playing professional baseball.

 

Beckham will likely never be known as a great defender. The reason he made it thus far is because of his bat. And if he can't handle switching a position mid season, he's more mentally fragile than I thought.

 

Look at Nix, never really played anything but 2B in his professional career. However, so far this year he has been able to play SS, 3B, LF, and RF with no problem. And I guarantee you there was more pressure on Nix because his job was on the line.

 

I know it isn't the best comparison, but if you know the game of baseball and are at least a decent athlete, and aren't a mental midget, you can make the adjustments needed to switch positions in season.