Haren Available?

[beck72]

"Having used 12 starting pitchers, the Angels are talking to the Diamondbacks about Dan Haren, who leads the majors with 15 quality starts. ..."

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3305872.story

 

Very interesting. The D-Backs must be in a world of hurt financially for this to have any truth to it.

 

The Angels have a big need for Haren, with a definite lack of starting pitching. The Angels system isn't what it once was. Yet the sox would seem to be able to offer a better package, starting with the Peavy trade principals--Richard, Poreda, 2 others--and moving up from there. The sox would seem to be able to offer more pitching that is near major league ready in return than the Angels. Not sure what the D-Backs need or want, though. But the Sox do have a history with the D-Backs, and they know the sox farm system.

 

Something along the lines of the "Peavy package" + Fields, Anderson, Nix? Haren is under control for 4 + years.

[DBAHO]

I mooted the D-Backs possibly shopping Haren a few weeks ago, and some people thought it was pretty crazy, but this doesn't surprise me.

 

Webb is on the shelf for the rest of the season, they are struggling financially like you've said, and Haren is basically the player who is going to give you the most in return.

 

And I doubt they shop a bat like Justin Upton, because all of their struggles over the past season and a half relate to them unable to score enough runs.

 

I think if they were to shop Haren, they'd be wanting a first baseman who can produce. Conor Jackson's only hitting .182/.264/.253, albeit he has been battling a sickness all season.

 

They may want someone to take on Eric Byrnes' contract also.

 

My guess is you'd definitely have to offer Brandon Allen and Dan Hudson as part of a package.

 

Something like Richard + Poreda + Allen + Hudson for Haren may get Josh Byrnes talking.

[beck72]

Phil Rogers is a little late it seems. Rosenthal wrote about this on 6-30.

 

"I almost can't conceive of a package that would motivate us to move him," one Diamondbacks official said."

 

It would seem to be a long shot. Yet with the D-Backs farm system depleted, esp. of position player prospects, the sox would seem to match up well with major league talent and talent near the majors.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9749600...-of-Haren-trade

 

 

[witesoxfan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9749600/Source:-D-backs-

 

"I almost can't conceive of a package that would motivate us to move him," one Diamondbacks official said.

 

"almost" leaves a small possibility, but you are probably going to have to match the package the DBacks gave to the A's. That would be against the Sox best interest, even knowing how good Haren is.

[DBAHO]

They could ask for either Danks or Floyd also if they were to move Haren.

 

I agree with wite about the Sox standing pat. Allen is very important to the Sox because he can replace Thome or Konerko from next season, and Hudson has that #3 starter potential still.

[beck72]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9749600/Source:-D-backs-

 

 

 

"almost" leaves a small possibility, but you are probably going to have to match the package the DBacks gave to the A's. That would be against the Sox best interest, even knowing how good Haren is.

That's the key. If the D-Backs can say they got back at least what they gave the A's, they can save face with their fans.

 

If the Sox truly want to add their elite SP, Haren seems ripe for being acquired. The sox are never going to add that elite SP via free agency. It has to come via the trade route or in developing one. The sox may be in the position to over pay on this one, with young position players and young pitchers available.

[witesoxfan]

Seriously, trading for Haren becomes a snowball of moves that later affects what the Sox have to do. If you want Haren, without giving up Beckham, it's probably something along the lines of Poreda, Richard, Allen, Flowers, Hudson, and Shelby. That'd be absolutely senseless. There will be other starters available for less, and I'm not even considering Bedard because I do not think he is the type of pitcher Williams would look into. He won't cost merely Richard either, so whoever brought that thought up can lay it to rest.

[beck72]

I guess it's just a matter of the D-Backs and Sox matching up. If the Sox want to add that elite SP, they have to expect to pay in terms of talent. Haren would qualify for elite. And if they are serious about adding that piece, the sox will make it happen. Few GM's have the guts to make a huge trade that may be overpaying. Kenny Williams is willing to gamble on making a mistake that could cost other GM's their jobs.

 

Kenny and Sox staff excel in knowing what the ceilings are of the players in their system. That's why few trades have come back and bitten the sox. Other teams acquire sox prospects with the expectation that they will improve on what they've done. The sox expect some level of drop off from the players they trade.

 

For instance, Allen would be a nice addition for the sox. Yet he's likely not needed until 2011, with PK around for one more year. Yet what is his ceiling? He still has a career minor league line of .259/.329/.457, though he's hit well in the upper levels. Allen seems one of those "trade high" guys like Olivo, Reed and Chris Young.

 

If a trade comes through, I'd expect a lot of people to say the sox "overpaid". I'd reserve judgment, based on the track of Kenny.

[103 mph screwball]

The Sox have 11 AA all stars FutureSox. (BTW, Great job with FutureSox.com, sincerely. Thanks JPN and everyone who makes that site top knotch.) I'm looking forward to a bright future. However, Haren is a stud and has performed in the AL. He and Halladay are the guys you move big talent to get. Short of Beckham, I don't care who they trade to get him. KW may just be bold enough to pull it off. Haren >> Peavy because of the AL experience alone. Haren or Halladay in place of Richard/Colon makes the Sox legit World Series contenders. The Sox have been better at drafting and finding young talent. They can restock the minors. Win NOW.

[beck72]

The Sox have 11 AA all stars FutureSox. (BTW, Great job with FutureSox.com, sincerely. Thanks JPN and everyone who makes that site top knotch.) I'm looking forward to a bright future. However, Haren is a stud and has performed in the AL. He and Halladay are the guys you move big talent to get. Short of Beckham, I don't care who they trade to get him. KW may just be bold enough to pull it off. Haren >> Peavy because of the AL experience alone. Haren or Halladay in place of Richard/Colon makes the Sox legit World Series contenders. The Sox have been better at drafting and finding young talent. They can restock the minors. Win NOW.

It's also not a matter of mortgaging the future just to win in the present. It's a matter of trying to win for the next 4 1/2 years. What better way to try and win than by building around a rotation of Haren, Danks, Floyd and Buehrle.

 

 

 

 

[beck72]

FWIW, Ariz.'s AA affiliate is in the SL, in the same division as the Barons. They have put a few players right from AA to the bigs this year, in players like OFer Gerardo Parra, and Reliever Daniel Schlereth. They have direct knowledge of the sox top minor leaguers.

[southsider2k5]

As some of these teams get closer to the deadline and are forced to slice payroll, I think we might be surprised how little they get because it will be hard to take on money.

[chisoxfan09]

That's the key. If the D-Backs can say they got back at least what they gave the A's, they can save face with their fans.

 

If the Sox truly want to add their elite SP, Haren seems ripe for being acquired. The sox are never going to add that elite SP via free agency. It has to come via the trade route or in developing one. The sox may be in the position to over pay on this one, with young position players and young pitchers available.

 

Beck, I posted a few days ago that even a 5 to 1 package of our prospects would almost be even or better than what AZ gave up. As noted only one of those prospects panned out into something and even then he is not doing all that great. At least the principle of the Peavy package includes 2 MLB ready pitchers in Poreda and Richard. You give up a lot for Haren but you get a legit Ace back.

Edited July 5, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[Dick Allen]

Seriously, trading for Haren becomes a snowball of moves that later affects what the Sox have to do. If you want Haren, without giving up Beckham, it's probably something along the lines of Poreda, Richard, Allen, Flowers, Hudson, and Shelby. That'd be absolutely senseless. There will be other starters available for less, and I'm not even considering Bedard because I do not think he is the type of pitcher Williams would look into. He won't cost merely Richard either, so whoever brought that thought up can lay it to rest.

If AZ offered Haren for Poreda, Richard, Allen, Flowers, Hudson and Shelby, if I were KW I'd have a Haren jersey made before I hung up the phone. It would be more than that, if he truly was available. He may be "available" just like a lot of other things are "available", if you want to overpay by triple maybe the D-Backs say yes, but they certainly won't be moving Haren for prospects that aren't sure-things.

 

How would people here feel if the White Sox continued to play like they played in May and were talking about trading Buerhle for a package of players who have barely played above AA, and some with little success at that level? Outrage I think it would be and rightly so.

 

As bad as AZ has been, they still have a young core that should be expected to do well in coming seasons. With Webb heading into shoulder surgery, trading Haren would be poison. He's better and cheaper than Peavy. He would cost significantly more.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Dick Allen

[kristofer]

i could see us doing a trade for haren and byrnes.

 

this would probably include anderson, fields (for their first base woes), poreda, richard, and probably a high upside A ball prospect.

 

they would really like to get byrnes off their payroll, and i feel like this would be best suited for both teams. though i'm not a huge fan of byrnes at all...

Edited July 5, 2009 by kristofer

[Kyyle23]

Byrnes is Oh So Grindy too

[C_LEE45]

If AZ offered Haren for Poreda, Richard, Allen, Flowers, Hudson and Shelby, if I were KW I'd have a Haren jersey made before I hung up the phone. It would be more than that, if he truly was available. He may be "available" just like a lot of other things are "available", if you want to overpay by triple maybe the D-Backs say yes, but they certainly won't be moving Haren for prospects that aren't sure-things.

 

How would people here feel if the White Sox continued to play like they played in May and were talking about trading Buerhle for a package of players who have barely played above AA, and some with little success at that level? Outrage I think it would be and rightly so.

 

As bad as AZ has been, they still have a young core that should be expected to do well in coming seasons. With Webb heading into shoulder surgery, trading Haren would be poison. He's better and cheaper than Peavy. He would cost significantly more.

 

 

 

Wow if we were to give that up what could the Angels even offer close to that?

[scenario]

A few of the many reasons there is no freaking way the DBacks will trade Haren...

 

Haren, who turns 29 on Sept. 17, is a logical target, but he will remain the Diamondbacks' sole ace if the team declines its $8.5 million option on righty Brandon Webb, who is facing possible shoulder surgery.

 

The D-backs picture Haren continuing not only as their No. 1 starter, but also serving as a mentor for two of their younger pitchers, righty Max Scherzer and Class AA right-hander Jarrod Parker.

 

Haren also is signed to a club-friendly contract that includes salaries of $7.5 million this season, $8.25 million next season and $12.75 million in both '11 and '12, with a $15.5 million club option or $3.5 million buyout for '13.

 

The Diamondbacks paid a steep initial price for Haren, acquiring him from the A's along with pitcher Connor Robertson for six players on Dec. 14, 2007. The A's received pitchers Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith, plus outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.

 

So... the DBacks pay a small fortune in prospects to acquire an ace with a very reasonable contract... then sign him to an extension... and then are supposed to turn around 18 months later and trade him for prospects? One of those things that fans of other teams love to think about that will never ever happen.

Edited July 5, 2009 by scenario

[chisoxfan09]

A few of the many reasons there is no freaking way the DBacks will trade Haren...

 

Haren, who turns 29 on Sept. 17, is a logical target, but he will remain the Diamondbacks' sole ace if the team declines its $8.5 million option on righty Brandon Webb, who is facing possible shoulder surgery.

 

The D-backs picture Haren continuing not only as their No. 1 starter, but also serving as a mentor for two of their younger pitchers, righty Max Scherzer and Class AA right-hander Jarrod Parker.

 

Haren also is signed to a club-friendly contract that includes salaries of $7.5 million this season, $8.25 million next season and $12.75 million in both '11 and '12, with a $15.5 million club option or $3.5 million buyout for '13.

 

The Diamondbacks paid a steep initial price for Haren, acquiring him from the A's along with pitcher Connor Robertson for six players on Dec. 14, 2007. The A's received pitchers Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland and Greg Smith, plus outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.

 

So... the DBacks pay a small fortune in prospects to acquire an ace with a very reasonable contract... then sign him to an extension... and then are supposed to turn around 18 months later and trade him for prospects? Something that fans of other teams love to think about that will never ever happen.

Scen, as quoted before I think Dana Eveland is the only player even in MLB right now. None of the other 5 have done anything at all. With Richard/Poreda you already have 2 lefties who are on the verge of being solid long relievers or starters.

Edited July 5, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[beck72]

Beck, I posted a few days ago that even a 5 to 1 package of our prospects would almost be even or better than what AZ gave up. As noted only one of those prospects panned out into something and even then he is not doing all that great. At least the principle of the Peavy package includes 2 MLB ready pitchers in Poreda and Richard. You give up a lot for Haren but you get a legit Ace back.

Looking back at some of the big trades for aces [the Haren deal, Johan, Bedard] included some major league ready players. Richard has more experience and has done better than any other guy included in those 3 deals [maybe Eveland had more IP, but hadn't thrown that well]. Whether he's got the "upside" of the key prospects in thsoe trades like Carlos Gomez, Adam Jones, and Carlos Gonzalez, prob. not. Yet the sox could add major league ready and close to ready pieces that those other deals lacked. Esp. as AZ doesn't have to be in full rebuilding mode, in the weaker NL, they can get depth to contend, opposed to getting one "star" quality headliner. Getting 2 SP's for a rotation in one deal, along with other players who could help now or soon, would have to be an impressive offer.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

Looking back at some of the big trades for aces [the Haren deal, Johan, Bedard] included some major league ready players. Richard has more experience and has done better than any other guy included in those 3 deals [maybe Eveland had more IP, but hadn't thrown that well]. Whether he's got the "upside" of the key prospects in thsoe trades like Carlos Gomez, Adam Jones, and Carlos Gonzalez, prob. not. Yet the sox could add major league ready and close to ready pieces that those other deals lacked. Esp. as AZ doesn't have to be in full rebuilding mode, in the weaker NL, they can get depth to contend, opposed to getting one "star" quality headliner. Getting 2 SP's for a rotation in one deal, along with other players who could help now or soon, would have to be an impressive offer.

 

Yup agree 100% there. Nobody (Not even the Angels) are gonna offer anythin close to Richard/Poreda. Plus our AA talent smoked everyone in the Southern League. So AZ should have a n idea of which prospects they might consider and which we would offer to expand the trade scenario.

[scenario]

Scen, as quoted before I think Dana Eveland is the only player even in MLB right now. None of the other 5 have done anything at all. With Richard/Poreda you already have 2 lefties who are on the verge of being solid long relievers or starters.

 

Anderson, Cunningham, and Carter began the year as the A's #1, #4, and #6 prospects.

 

Anderson (#7 prospect in all of MLB according to Baseball America) has started 14 games for the A's this year... including a 7-1 win over the Tigers last week.

 

Greg Smith started 32 games for Oakland last year with a 4.16 ERA.

 

Aaron Cunningham is raking in AAA while waiting for a spot to open up in Oakland's crowded outfield.

 

Carter lead all of MiLB in homeruns last year and is tearing up AA this year.

 

CarGon was one of the keys to the A's getting Holliday... is only 23 and is tearing up AAA for Colorado this year.

 

I don't think I have to go on... that's an absolute boatload of talent... all given up for Haren.

 

I'll say it one last time, then I'll shut up...

 

Interesting to talk about but... NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

Yup agree 100% there. Nobody (Not even the Angels) are gonna offer anythin close to Richard/Poreda. Plus our AA talent smoked everyone in the Southern League. So AZ should have a n idea of which prospects they might consider and which we would offer to expand the trade scenario.

 

Beck, on a side note maybe just maybe we could discuss instead of Poreda Thorton which gives them a solid late innings set up man. Dunno just throwing out some other combo.

[beck72]

Beck, on a side note maybe just maybe we could discuss instead of Poreda Thorton which gives them a solid late innings set up man. Dunno just throwing out some other combo.

They are really thin at SP. They'll lose both Doug Davis and Garland to FA. Only Scherzer has done well for them from their other SP's. Their #1 SP prospect Jarrod Parker is 21 at AA. If Webb is the "face" of the franchise, and the D-Backs want to extend his deal after the 2010 season [which is a team option $8.5 mill], they'd have to pony up some big cash. Them getting depth at SP makes a ton of sense.

 

My thinking is if the Padres thought a Peavy deal headlined by Richard/ Poreda was enough, even before Richard has had some success in the rotation this year, and Poreda has pitched well in limited time, other teams may like the offer as well. I know the situations are a little different, with Peavy owed a lot of cash and SD hurting. Yet, IIRC, AZ isn't exactly rolling in dough and needs young talent. Their depth in the minors is pretty sorry.

[chisoxfan09]

Anderson, Cunningham, and Carter began the year as the A's #1, #4, and #6 prospects.

 

Anderson (#7 prospect in all of MLB according to Baseball America) has started 14 games for the A's this year... including a 7-1 win over the Tigers last week.

 

Greg Smith started 32 games for Oakland last year with a 4.16 ERA.

 

Aaron Cunningham is raking in AAA while waiting for a spot to open up in Oakland's crowded outfield.

 

Carter lead all of MiLB in homeruns last year and is tearing up AA this year.

 

CarGon was one of the keys to the A's getting Holliday... is only 23 and is tearing up AAA for Colorado this year.

 

I don't think I have to go on... that's an absolute boatload of talent... all given up for Haren.

 

I'll say it one last time, then I'll shut up...

 

Interesting to talk about but... NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN

 

You are probably right this won´t happen. But another point lost in all of this is that the Sox farm is much better than in previous years and we could afford to give up a package of 5/6 prospects and still keep fielding competitive team at the A/AA levels. This year´s draft was also quite good.