Why is Clayton Richard in our starting rotation?

[whitesoxfan101]

He had a 6.04 ERA and 1.66 WHIP in 6 June starts which he averaged less than 5 inning per outing, and his first start of July this afternoon was more of the same. His season ERA is now up to 4.75 and his WHIP over 1 and a half. We have a better, young pitcher who needs experience rotting in the bullpen not getting any burn in Aaron Poreda. It's pretty clear that Poreda and Richard's roles should be reversed and has been for a couple weeks now. I understand this team is playing well, but we can't let Clayton Richard continue to bring down our rotation because he had 3 good starts against non playoff teams in May, especially now that we're actually in the race.

Edited July 5, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[fathom]

I don't think he's going to be in the rotation for very long.

[lostfan]

Well Richard is the 5th starter and all, but I don't know why Poreda was called up if he's not going to play. I've always thought of Richard as a fine middle reliever who could start a game once in a while, and I tried not to get too far ahead of myself when he beat the Pirates, etc. (in the best pitcher for May I still voted Buehrle). I don't see how we can justify keeping him in the rotation at the rate he's going, but then again Ozzie is not usually very quick to pull people from the rotation once he decides they're playing there, he'll let them sink or swim first.

[TheHolyBovine]

He had a 6.04 ERA and 1.66 WHIP in 6 June starts which he averaged less than 5 inning per outing, and his first start of July this afternoon was more of the same. His season ERA is now up to 4.75 and his WHIP over 1 and a half. We have a better, young pitcher who needs experience rotting in the bullpen not getting any burn in Aaron Poreda. It's pretty clear that Poreda and Richard's roles should be reversed and has been for a couple weeks now. I understand this team is playing well, but we can't let Clayton Richard continue to bring down our rotation because he had 3 good starts against non playoff teams in May, especially now that we're actually in the race.

 

 

Don't know if you watched the game today, but Richard:

a) was touching 97, with velocity consistently between 92-94

B) had a great change-up

c) was very unlucky. the royals only had two balls hit hard against him

 

In terms of stuff, he has a better arm than MB or JD, and he's a lefty to boot. You have to give him a chance to get his stuff together. He's very close to breaking through.

Edited July 5, 2009 by TheHolyBovine

[Princess Dye]

royals barely hit anything hard off Richard

Edited July 5, 2009 by Princess Dye

[fathom]

Don't know if you watched the game today, but Richard:

a) was touching 97, with velocity consistently between 92-94

B) had a great change-up

c) was very unlucky. the royals only had two balls hit hard against him

 

In terms of stuff, he has a better arm than MB or JD, and he's a lefty to boot. You have to give him a chance to get his stuff together. He's very close to breaking through.

 

Simply put, you can't keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get you past the 5th inning.

[whitesoxfan101]

Don't know if you watched the game today, but Richard:

a) was touching 97, with velocity consistently between 92-94

B) had a great change-up

c) was very unlucky. the royals only had two balls hit hard against him

 

In terms of stuff, he has a better arm than MB or JD, and he's a lefty to boot. You have to give him a chance to get his stuff together. He's very close to breaking through.

 

I've heard all year how he has great stuff and has had bad luck and all of that. I'm tired of it. I haven't seen results in his starts since the month of May, he consistently loses his stuff and gets tired very early on in terms of pitch count, and if we're really "in it to win it", we can't afford to go through the tough times and watch him suffer waiting to have a payoff later. The one good part of 2007 is we were able to do that with Gavin and Danks, but that isn't the case now, especially as our #1 pick in 2007 (who is better regardless of if people admit it) is rotting away in the bullpen.

[lostfan]

Simply put, you can't keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get you past the 5th inning.

Ozzie has a longer leash with pitchers than most other managers, if you can't make it with Ozzie behind you, you probably won't. I'm guessing Clayton still has a few more starts left to get it together, unless he totally bombs.

[chw42]

I'd much rather see Clayton out there instead of Bartolo. Maybe we can give Poreda a shot.

[Balta1701]

Simply put, you can't keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get you past the 5th inning.

It depends on what your goal is. If it's the 5th starter spot, you've got 4 other guys rolling, and you're looking to develop a young pitcher for the future, then you can certainly keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get through the 5th and has bad numbers.

 

Give you a perfect example. Full season WHIP: 1.540. Got worse every month; 2nd half 1.642 WHIP, 7.11 ERA, 1-7 record. Who am I looking at? That's John Danks, 2007.

 

Face it, Clayton has some talent, he just needs work. He's not getting that sitting on the bench. You want to develop a young starter in to something solid, you have to put up with some struggles. Would I have a problem moving Poreda in for some starts? No. Would I expect him to go more than 4 innings? No.

[Cali]

Clayton DOES NOT throw 97. That gun is waaay too fast.

 

Aaron Poreda Please...

[knightni]

Why was the arrival of this thread so predictable?

 

The guy's still learning and he's only a 5th starter. If Ozzie wants to switch him with Poreda, he will.

 

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I am a big believer in Clayton Richard but it's time to let Poreda start before inactivity no longer allows him to give 5/6/7 innings of quality work. One start gives him a chance to see what he can do and let's Richard rest and regroup pitching relief.

[whitesoxfan101]

Why was the arrival of this thread so predictable?

 

The guy's still learning and he's only a 5th starter. If Ozzie wants to switch him with Poreda, he will.

 

Because Clayton has sucked for weeks now? I wouldn't have as big a problem with being patient with Clayton, but we have a starter with better stuff and a far higher ceiling in the bullpen, and we're in the race and can't afford to watch Clayton suck and not go deep into games start after start. If you won't at least admit that starting Poreda over Richard should be strongly considered at this point, then I don't get it.

[Vote4Pedro]

Clayton DOES NOT throw 97. That gun is waaay too fast.

 

Aaron Poreda Please...

 

I agree....bring on poreda give him a start at least he hasnt given up a run in any of his appearances

[Cali]

Clayton proved last year he wasn't a starter. He's an okay middle reliever but you can't count on him to go more than 4 or 5 innings before getting knocked around. He has 2 mediocre pitches that he doesn't really have good control over, how does he keep getting starts at this point?

[WCSox]

It depends on what your goal is. If it's the 5th starter spot, you've got 4 other guys rolling, and you're looking to develop a young pitcher for the future, then you can certainly keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get through the 5th and has bad numbers.

 

Give you a perfect example. Full season WHIP: 1.540. Got worse every month; 2nd half 1.642 WHIP, 7.11 ERA, 1-7 record. Who am I looking at? That's John Danks, 2007.

 

Face it, Clayton has some talent, he just needs work. He's not getting that sitting on the bench. You want to develop a young starter in to something solid, you have to put up with some struggles. Would I have a problem moving Poreda in for some starts? No. Would I expect him to go more than 4 innings? No.

 

I agree. Overall, Richard's overall numbers for the year aren't terrible for a #5 in the AL. I'd much rather watch Richard suck during a developmental phase than watch Colon suck at the tail end of his career.

 

As for Poreda, I'm not convinced that he has a future outside of the 'pen. I'd like to see him get some long relief opportunities, but overall I don't have a problem with the handling of our pitchers right now.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I agree. Overall, Richard's overall numbers for the year aren't terrible for a #5 in the AL. I'd much rather watch Richard suck during a developmental phase than watch Colon suck at the tail end of his career.

 

As for Poreda, I'm not convinced that he has a future outside of the 'pen. I'd like to see him get some long relief opportunities, but overall I don't have a problem with the handling of our pitchers right now.

We've got a legit shot to develop both of these guys in to at least middle-of-the-rotation starters, but they seemingly need different things. Poreda needs some control work and to get his offspeed stuff down, Richard needs to get past those early struggles where you're a little too scared to go after people that we seem to run in to with every pitcher. Richard could probably benefit from working on another pitch in the offseason, but either way, I'd expect either of them to average 4-5 innings a game and give up a decent number of runs if they're being put out there as starters, because that's just what happens with 90% of young pitchers.

 

Right now it seems that they think Richard is better facing a lot more batters, and Poreda is better off just being up, working out of the pen, and perhaps working on pitches on his throwing days. They may well decide to flip them here in a week or two, no idea. But in terms of developing young pitching, the one thing you don't do is give up on it completely because it has a rough month.

[beautox]

It depends on what your goal is. If it's the 5th starter spot, you've got 4 other guys rolling, and you're looking to develop a young pitcher for the future, then you can certainly keep throwing someone out there who struggles to get through the 5th and has bad numbers.

 

Give you a perfect example. Full season WHIP: 1.540. Got worse every month; 2nd half 1.642 WHIP, 7.11 ERA, 1-7 record. Who am I looking at? That's John Danks, 2007.

 

Face it, Clayton has some talent, he just needs work. He's not getting that sitting on the bench. You want to develop a young starter in to something solid, you have to put up with some struggles. Would I have a problem moving Poreda in for some starts? No. Would I expect him to go more than 4 innings? No.

 

i agree with your whole post.

 

You run him out there until he totally s***s the bed, hes got a great arm and the potential to be as good as danks if not better. He has to learn how to pace himself at the ML level and he needs to develop a cutter to keep RH off balance.

 

We know if we put him in the pen we're looking at another Matt Thornton; which is phenonal, but let his talent and age ride out, nearly all rookie pitchers hit a wall give him time to make adjustments, if we're patient with him we might just have a hybrid between danks and MB on our hands and a very cheap solution to our rotation for a long time.

[whitesoxbrian]

i agree with your whole post.

 

You run him out there until he totally s***s the bed, hes got a great arm and the potential to be as good as danks if not better. He has to learn how to pace himself at the ML level and he needs to develop a cutter to keep RH off balance.

 

We know if we put him in the pen we're looking at another Matt Thornton; which is phenonal, but let his talent and age ride out, nearly all rookie pitchers hit a wall give him time to make adjustments, if we're patient with him we might just have a hybrid between danks and MB on our hands and a very cheap solution to our rotation for a long time.

Great arm? He throws 91-93 with a medicore change-up and an average slider. His ceiling is about 4 stories lower then Danks, if you get my drift.

[fathom]

Great arm? He throws 91-93 with a medicore change-up and an average slider. His ceiling is about 4 stories lower then Danks, if you get my drift.

 

Yeah, he definitely doesn't have the potential that Danks does. A big issue with Richard is that his arm slot is going to make it extremely difficult for him to consistently get righties out.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, he definitely doesn't have the potential that Danks does. A big issue with Richard is that his arm slot is going to make it extremely difficult for him to consistently get righties out.

I would bet you we heard the exact same stuff about Danks in 2007.

[Heads22]

Fathom, I thought you said the other day you weren't sure where exactly KW would be looking to upgrade? I'm pretty sure that 5th spot is it.

[Heads22]

I would bet you we heard the exact same stuff about Danks in 2007.

 

Richard can't see Danks' ceiling without a telescope.

[fathom]

I would bet you we heard the exact same stuff about Danks in 2007.

 

But Danks throws a lot more over the top and has the cutter and potentially great change-up. I do love Richard's chances against lefties though, as he has good command of his slider against them.