Balta1701 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 10:21 AM) Im sure it's somewhere in the 22 pages, but if we offered Dotel arbitration, what figure would that potentially be Dotel's salary for 2009 is $6 million dollars. In an arbitration case, by rule, the lowest possible figure a team can offer is 80% of the player's current salary. For Dotel, this is $4.8 million. Thus offering him arbitration is the equivalent of guaranteeing him $4.8 million on a 1 year deal next year. However, it is very, very rare for an arbitrator to actually rule that a player's salary should go down if it gets that far, unless the player misses a chunk of the season due to injury. If the Sox submitted a bid of $4.8 million to an arbitrator and Dotel's side submitted something reasonable, in the $6-$7 million range, it is likely that Dotel's side would win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Just by looking at some of the posts it appears I am in the minority that think this could be a good trade for the Sox. I look at it 3 ways: 1. Yeah, we probably gave up too much in Allen, but it helps us in the long run because of Pena's age and salary. This pretty much shows us that Dotel won't be back next year, and could possibly be even traded. (I think I saw some mention the trade possibilities) I am not positive of Pena's arbitration status but I am sure he is going to be at least half as cheap as Dotel but will not have that much drop off in performance (price over performance). 2. I am not saying the Sox would have signed Dotel, but to either sign him or get someone close to his ability would have cost considerably more than Pena. With Linebrink already signed $5M in 2010 and $5.5M in 2011, Jenks up for arbitration, Thornton salary jumping to $2.2M in 2010 and $3M in 2011 our bullpen would be REALLY high salary-wise. 3. We seem to have a glutton of 1B/DH types in the minors and Allen must have been lower on their plans. The Sox might have seen enough of Beckham at 3B to leave him there, move Viciedo to 1B or Flowers to 1B/DH. Who knows. One thing that does concern me is the left-handed bat issue. Outside of Jor. Danks most of our best minor league players are all right-handed. We will see what happens, but I usually trust KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) Anyone know how the Sox are feeling about Viciedo's progress defensively? Well, 20 errors in 82 games cant be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) This reminds me of the Jeremy Reed thing, and hopefully turns out the same way. I think he was roughly 23 at the time...and it was kind of like, lets get something more sure. Said:may Reed go on and do whatever he's going to do in the game. And lo and behold he fizzled. This coming after he was a lot more impresive than Allen in AA, even as a 22 year old. Was solid but not spectacular in AAA. Reed of course had the bloated trade value because he's a position of need, not 1b/lf/dh Man just looking at Reed on baseball cube, he must be one of those terribly frustrating guys to have. It looks like each time he has been sent down to AAA in pockets over the last few years, he has torn it up. Then comes back up and reverts. Edited July 8, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) Well, 20 errors in 82 games cant be good. For a 20 year old adjusting to US pro ball in his first year, I'd actually say that's not terrible. But errors is not a good measure here, I'd want to hear from someone who has seen him play, how he looks out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) For a 20 year old adjusting to US pro ball in his first year, I'd actually say that's not terrible. But errors is not a good measure here, I'd want to hear from someone who has seen him play, how he looks out there. As far as fielding though, is there a big disparity between Cuba and US? I would think in Cuba there are fewer scalding shots down the line, but still enough of them to where one can ascertain whether they can handle the intricacies of the position or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) This reminds me of the Jeremy Reed thing, and hopefully turns out the same way. Man, i was pissed when they traded Jeremy Reed. I was wrong. lol He's actually had an ok year with the Mets. But he's basically a .280 singles hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) Maybe Carraso is going to get a shot at the number 5 spot with Richard replacing Gobble? Aaron Poreda...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) Aaron Poreda...? No reason not to start Poreda over Carassco. Ultimately, while I’m really impressed with what Carassco had done for us over the last year and a half, there have been significant periods in his career where exposing him too much has led to him being hit around. He's definitely valuable for 2 to 3 innings, but I’d prefer to see what we've got in Poreda then take a chance on that. I'm feeling a bit better about the trade today, still dissapointed, but happy in the knowledge that we have the best damn bullpen in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) ..but happy in the knowledge that we have the best damn bullpen in the game. Is this even true? I'm not sure I'm buying Hawk's constant praise of our bullpen. Granted it's better than most but it's not as elite as he makes it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) Is this even true? I'm not sure I'm buying Hawk's constant praise of our bullpen. Granted it's better than most but it's not as elite as he makes it out to be. Who has a better bullpen today than Jenks-Thornton-Linebrink-Dotel-Pena-Poreda-Carrasco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendol Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Who has a better bullpen today than Jenks-Thornton-Linebrink-Dotel-Pena-Poreda-Carrasco? Redsox Bard-Delcarmen-Masterson-Okajima-Papelbon-Ramirez-Saito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (brendol @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Redsox Bard-Delcarmen-Masterson-Okajima-Papelbon-Ramirez-Saito I'll give a slight nod to the BoSox, but ours is pretty darn good overall, especially with the recent additions/subtractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) For a 20 year old adjusting to US pro ball in his first year, I'd actually say that's not terrible. But errors is not a good measure here, I'd want to hear from someone who has seen him play, how he looks out there. He's done significantly better defensively over the past month and a half. His errors are not as commonplace as they were the first 6 weeks of the season. He's got a cannon for an arm too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) This reminds me of the Jeremy Reed thing, and hopefully turns out the same way. I think he was roughly 23 at the time...and it was kind of like, lets get something more sure. Said:may Reed go on and do whatever he's going to do in the game. And lo and behold he fizzled. This coming after he was a lot more impresive than Allen in AA, even as a 22 year old. Was solid but not spectacular in AAA. Reed of course had the bloated trade value because he's a position of need, not 1b/lf/dh Man just looking at Reed on baseball cube, he must be one of those terribly frustrating guys to have. It looks like each time he has been sent down to AAA in pockets over the last few years, he has torn it up. Then comes back up and reverts. We got a #2 starter for Reed. For Allen, we got a guy who looks to be the 6th or 7th best thing in our bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendol Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 He's done significantly better defensively over the past month and a half. His errors are not as commonplace as they were the first 6 weeks of the season. He's got a cannon for an arm too. yeah, id like him to stay at 3b. his build is similar to adrian beltre, so there is hope that he can be a good fielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) We got a #2 starter for Reed. For Allen, we got a guy who looks to be the 6th or 7th best thing in our bullpen. There were others involved in the Reed trade including a young Olivo and I forget the third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 04:14 PM) There were others involved in the Reed trade including a young Olivo and I forget the third. SS Mike Morse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) He's done significantly better defensively over the past month and a half. His errors are not as commonplace as they were the first 6 weeks of the season. He's got a cannon for an arm too. Good to know, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 11:27 AM) Not gonna lie, this is a horrilble post that proves nothing. Sorry. I'm not saying Brandon Allen is going to be the left-handed Pujols or anything, but he's FAR from a no-name. This stipulation that Brandon Allen, at 23, was way too old for AA or AAA is ludicrous. If he completed the rest of the season at AAA this year and made the team out of Spring Training, he'd still only be 24. And even if he had to do another COMPLETE season at AAA, he'd make our team in 2011 at the age of 25. Man, what a geezer. GMAB. I wasn't trying to prove anything. Nothing they say or anybody else says means squat at this point. Just showing another perspective besides that of a disgruntled Sox fan. And I could be wrong about this. But I'd be willing to bet most of the posters here don't frequent any other baseball message boards outside of this one. Which is fine. But there is a baseball world out there besides Soxtalk. And you say Brandon Allen is far from a no-name? Just because he was viewed as a 'stud' around here doesn't mean he's viewed that way everywhere else. There's a BIG difference in being a team's top prospect and a top prospect. Brandon Allen was never viewed by anybody (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, MILB.com) as a top prospect. Only a White Sox top prospect. I love futuresox and all the people who contribute to it. But let's be honest, there a lot of homerism that goes on around here in regards to our farm system. If I read nothing else on the planet other than Futuresox, I would assume we have 5-10 ML ready prospects at every level. And I think certain posters here get caught up in all that because this board is all they know. I think it was qwerty that said he doesn't even frequent Futuresox, not because it's not a quality part of the board, but because he knows no good will come out of it due to the rose-colored glasses everybody around here wears in regards to our prospects (and he obviously doesn't view most of them the same way). Edited July 8, 2009 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 05:43 PM) Brandon Allen was never viewed by anybody (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, MILB.com) as a top prospect. Brandon Allen was #99 0n Baseball Prospectus' Top 100. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8506 John Sickels had him in his top 100 picture, he also had him ranked 4th amongst our prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/22/...te-sox-top-20-p http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/9/17/6...rospect-brandon Prospect Rankings* 2009 - #4 ranked for CHW http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...009/267205.html *According to Baseball America Brandon Allen was more then relevant to any prospect buff. Be more constructive with your feedback, please. Edited July 8, 2009 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 A little tidbit, but Allen would have slotted somewhere from 4-6 in our new midseason FS rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) John Sickels had him in his top 100 picture, he also had him ranked 4th amongst our prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/12/22/...te-sox-top-20-p http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/9/17/6...rospect-brandon Prospect Rankings* 2009 - #4 ranked for CHW http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...009/267205.html *According to Baseball America Brandon Allen was more then relevant to any prospect buff. Be more constructive with your feedback, please. But, in all fairness, if you had to re-rank him or Shelby III at the time of the trade, they'd both fallen quite a bit, true? Would you rather have Allen or C. Carter back at this point? Carter is putting up very good numbers in AAA this season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 10:51 AM) I obviously can't with 110 percent certainty speak to the specific value of Brandon Allen (although I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who pays attention even to a slight degree that it's more than a middle reliever), however I can say that if he was the bare minimum required to bring Tony Pena in, then there is no way in hell we should have been making a trade for Tony Pena. Yet that's exactly what you did about 5 times last night. And then you turn right around and say your certain his value is more than that of a middle reliever when again, you have no idea what his value is. I understand there are certain people here who simply will not be critical of Kenny Williams all that often though, which is fine, that's their perrogative and since he's got a ring, I can understand it to a degree. I will say it's fascinating that the Diamondbacks fans are ripping this trade though, not sure what exactly they think a middle reliever who has been mediocre in 2009 is going to bring back. There's a difference between constructive criticism and a full-blown aneurysm. Kenny's not perfect. No GM is. But he has a proven track record in cases like these. And I'm not saying Arizona fans are right, but at least they got to see Pena on a consistent basis. And they have a much better perspective on him than anybody around here could possibly have on Brandon Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 05:56 PM) But, in all fairness, if you had to re-rank him or Shelby III at the time of the trade, they'd both fallen quite a bit, true? A bit yes, but not a precipitous plummet for either player. Shelby’s falloff being more significant then Allen’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.