White Sox GM Hampered by low Attendance

[klaus kinski]

We have been lousy at home-the weather has been cold, and this is where the season tickets sold are about the only attendance. And there may have been more if they would have went with the times and let people pay in installments like always before last year. That decision was THEIR fault.

 

I have tickets for the 2 races at Bristol TN. This year for the first time, you can pay on installments. But not the White Sox. (2 half payments at these prices dont do it, especially at Christmas)

 

Instead of complaining about attendance, do something to encourage it.

 

Also, we used to have big crowds on half price nights, rowdy but big. Those seats are also now empty because fans were used to half price-so the economy goes bad, they dont adjust, and its our fault.

 

Sorry rich people, take your share of the blame

Edited July 8, 2009 by klaus kinski

[WCSox]

No? Have you read message boards before? Let's face it, the midwest, and the White Sox fanbase in particular, is a very "blue-collar" fanbase. It's a fanbase that, relative to others, does not spend as much of its time in front of a computer, due in large part to the occupations it holds. That is not necessarily to say it does not get paid well, but it does not spend as much time reading about farm systems, learning the newest offensive and defensive metrics, etc. It gets most of its knowledge from sports radio as well as the team's beat writers.

 

I don't really agree with this. The "blue collar" tag on Sox fans isn't terribly accurate, or at least isn't nearly as accurate as it was 30 years ago when you would routinely see shirtless working-class guys with cigarettes dangling out of their mouths at the old ballpark. Reinsdorf et al. went out of their way to cater to the white collar suburbanite demographic (not to mention the corporate demographic with all of the luxury suites) in the '90s and were pretty successful in that regard. At this point, I don't see much of a difference between Sox and Cubs fans in terms of baseball knowledge. The only difference I've noticed over the years is that the Sox seem to have more minority fans and the Cubs seem to have more "Greek System"-type fans.

 

I also don't think that the working-class/minority/frat guy/sorority chick demographics that appear to be overly-represented at Chicago baseball games are less educated about their teams because of their occupations, education level, age, etc. It's about the sports culture in Chicago. Unlike New York, Boston, or St. Louis, baseball comes in a distant second to football. Chicago is all about the Bears. Most of the Midwest and the South are football-crazy, and baseball takes a back seat to both the pro and college teams in most areas.

Edited July 8, 2009 by WCSox

[WCSox]

How is it that they had plenty of money to assume the $63 million Jake Peavy was owed 2 months ago, but now have don't have the money to pick up anything but spare parts? Its either a smokescreen, some sort of gamesmanship or delusional.

 

Most likely because they would've had Peavy under control for several years, they would've given up next to nothing for a player of his caliber, and Peavy's smack in the middle of his prime. Those three conditions won't be there for Roy Halladay or Danny Haren.

 

The Sox obviously have the money, but it's not surprising that they're being a lot more careful on who they spend on this year (especially after Kenny over-spent on Linebrink and Dotel last year). Hence, decent-but-not-great players like Swisher get dealt to free up the opportunity for a big-name impact player like Peavy down the road. If that opportunity falls through or never arises, Kenny holds onto the money and waits for the next opportunity. With revenue down across the league, but players' contracts not yet adjusted to the current economic conditions, you're probably not going to see as many big-name players being dealt at the deadline this year.

 

Edited July 8, 2009 by WCSox

[GreatScott82]

KW knows if he gets 1 or even 2 sexy names before the deadline, attendance will boost up there.

 

Hey KW, if you BUILD IT, WE WILL COME!

 

Edited July 8, 2009 by GreatScott82

[beck72]

The sox so far have been a .500 team. Kenny and management should expect the sox to be near the middle in attendance. I don't know if the league numbers have been posted anywhere. But if the Sox had a better record, then I'd expect more people to show up and watch them play.

[WCSox]

KW knows if he gets 1 or even 2 sexy names before the deadline, attendance will boost up there.

 

Hey KW, if you BUILD IT, WE WILL COME!

 

 

Kenny added Griffey, Swisher, Linebrink, Dotel, and Cabrera last year, got an MVP-caliber season out of Quentin and a ROTY-caliber season out of Alexei. Oh, and they won the division. Yet, only the MLB average came.

 

[BearSox]

I think someone else said it best:

 

Either this is a smokescreen by Kenny, or he's just covering his ass early for not making any big moves to improve this team.

[caulfield12]

The sox so far have been a .500 team. Kenny and management should expect the sox to be near the middle in attendance. I don't know if the league numbers have been posted anywhere. But if the Sox had a better record, then I'd expect more people to show up and watch them play.

 

 

 

18th...pretty close to TEX/SEA/Minnesota, but trailing those 3 teams and firmly entrenched in the "middle of the pack".

 

However, as Dick Allen noted, top 4-5 pricing across the board on tickets, premium ticketing, parking, concessions (beer, etc.) and souvenirs.

 

So we're probably in the 10-15 vicinity in terms of overall revenues generated, but 18th numbers-wise in attendance overall.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Kenny added Griffey, Swisher, Linebrink, Dotel, and Cabrera last year

Yeah those guys will normally get a team to increase attendance by 40%.

 

/green

[BigSqwert]

I think someone else said it best:

 

Either this is a smokescreen by Kenny, or he's just covering his ass early for not making any big moves to improve this team.

It's plain stupid if that's the case. Why not just shut your mouth instead of pissing off fans?

[LVSoxFan]

Having been to seven games already this year, which is low by my standards, I'd personally like to tell KW to shove it. I average 20-30 games per year (40 in '05) and one thing I've noticed is that the park has grown less fan-friendly year after year, price-wise.

 

Of course we have the insulting tier system, where an April game against KC is $33 for bleachers but of course for the Cubs they're magically $40 for the same seat. Granted the Cubs series is always a sellout but then to make the LA series premium?!?!? In the middle of the week? No wonder you got 20,000 fans only.

 

And of course, beer prices up, parking up, everything up, up, up even when we knew going into the season that the economy was the worst in my lifetime. Half-price promotions few and far between... really, this is all a mystery to KW? Really?

 

Add to that the Sox didn't exactly get off to a rousing start (although looking much better now) and we have our mystery solved here.

 

If the Sox were more flexible as an organization they would realized going into the season that with the economy they could work on the fly and make the Sox a budget-saving alternative to the Cubs or other activities... drop the ticket prices, offer family packages, realize that a full park with discounted tix is better than a half-empty one at premium prices.

 

But none of that happened.

 

And yet you whine about "support" when you've offered none in these dismal economic times.

 

Sit down and STFU.

[WCSox]

Yeah those guys will normally get a team to increase attendance by 40%.

 

/green

 

Nice straw man. How about fielding a competitive team that went on to win the division? Shouldn't that garner more than 16/30 in MLB attendance?

 

Either this is a smokescreen by Kenny, or he's just covering his ass early for not making any big moves to improve this team.

 

If Peavy didn't exercise his NTC, Kenny would've added a marquee pitcher and committed over $60 million in the middle of a severe recession. There isn't exactly a lack of effort on his part.

 

 

[kwolf68]

Having been to seven games already this year, which is low by my standards, I'd personally like to tell KW to shove it. I average 20-30 games per year (40 in '05) and one thing I've noticed is that the park has grown less fan-friendly year after year, price-wise.

 

Of course we have the insulting tier system, where an April game against KC is $33 for bleachers but of course for the Cubs they're magically $40 for the same seat. Granted the Cubs series is always a sellout but then to make the LA series premium?!?!? In the middle of the week? No wonder you got 20,000 fans only.

 

And of course, beer prices up, parking up, everything up, up, up even when we knew going into the season that the economy was the worst in my lifetime. Half-price promotions few and far between... really, this is all a mystery to KW? Really?

 

Add to that the Sox didn't exactly get off to a rousing start (although looking much better now) and we have our mystery solved here.

 

If the Sox were more flexible as an organization they would realized going into the season that with the economy they could work on the fly and make the Sox a budget-saving alternative to the Cubs or other activities... drop the ticket prices, offer family packages, realize that a full park with discounted tix is better than a half-empty one at premium prices.

 

But none of that happened.

 

And yet you whine about "support" when you've offered none in these dismal economic times.

 

Sit down and STFU.

 

 

+1

[elrockinMT]

KW's looking for a scapegoat, so he's putting it back on the fans.

 

How nice.

 

 

Whatever happened to revenue sharing? Maybe the problem is that Jerry Reinsdorf is trying to buy some hockey team in Arizona?

[103 mph screwball]

I made it to my first game of the year last night. I had a blast! I'll try to go more often so we can get a stud at the trading deadline. Not as easy as it used to be with little kids.

[Soxfest]

KW does NOT mention Sox were only 1 of 10 teams that raised ticket prices in 2009 and 11% to boot and that does not include the parking that is now $23.00. I knew he would find a way to use the attendance as an excuse for himself. Attendance may be down but with ticket price increase for 2009 the money is still there especially with the premium seat bulls*** that is why the Dodger series drew only 20,000 a game. I grow tired of KW crying poor over and over!

[iamshack]

The product until recently hasn't warranted more support. Its the catch 22 that seems to apply to the White Sox every year. The bottom line is the White Sox know and have known exactly how many tickets they have sold. They can also project pretty well what kind of walk-up to expect. How is it that they had plenty of money to assume the $63 million Jake Peavy was owed 2 months ago, but now have don't have the money to pick up anything but spare parts? Its either a smokescreen, some sort of gamesmanship or delusional.

 

Dick, at the time of the trade, Kenny even said they really had no idea how they were going to pay for the salary. He said they were pretty much winging it. That he didn't know how it was going to work, just that they would make it work.

 

Basically, it proves that they'll go make an acquisition if they absolutely love the player, regardless if the money is budgeted somewhere or not.

[Kyyle23]

Whatever happened to revenue sharing? Maybe the problem is that Jerry Reinsdorf is trying to buy some hockey team in Arizona?

 

i highly doubt that JR is using White Sox money to purchase the Coyotes. Plus, JR is only an investor in the White Sox, he only owns something like a 12 percent share, its not like he is leveraging the Sox to purchase the Coyotes

[SI1020]

I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy.

 

While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have.

Let them eat cake.

 

[iamshack]

Whatever happened to revenue sharing? Maybe the problem is that Jerry Reinsdorf is trying to buy some hockey team in Arizona?

 

Revenue sharing is the entire reason they are able to support a payroll as high as it has been for the past several years. They get approximately $60 million a year from revenue sharing, and that, along with other revenues, is what allows them to support a $100 million payroll or more. It certainly doesn't come from our stellar attendance, that's for damn sure.

[WCSox]

Dick, at the time of the trade, Kenny even said they really had no idea how they were going to pay for the salary. He said they were pretty much winging it. That he didn't know how it was going to work, just that they would make it work.

 

They likely would've adjusted their roster to financially accommodate Peavy. That means that any of Dotel, Thome, and Dye may have been sent packing this winter. (I'm still holding out hope that they offer Dye a two-year deal at the end of the season.)

 

Basically, it proves that they'll go make an acquisition if they absolutely love the player, regardless if the money is budgeted somewhere or not.

 

Bingo. Peavy would've anchored this rotation for several years. I'm pretty sure that they're not creaming themselves over the prospect of 1 1/2 years of Halladay.

Edited July 8, 2009 by WCSox

[EvilJester99]

How long b4 he starts crying the old, you can't spend a dollar when you only have 50 cents???

[C_LEE45]

hey kenny maybe just maybe people are holding onto there money just in case they dont have a job next week not everybody lives in happyland like yourself hey better yet tell me why are 2 best prospects are up and playing out of postion that tells me you didnt do your job mr williams now just stop being a little b**** and go get roy

[qwerty]

I despise attendance threads, but the numbers in the original post seem to be a bit off.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...ttendance.shtml

[caulfield12]

MLB projected a 7% across-the-board slide in revenues and attendance...we're almost double that, something like 14%. If you "X" out that double-header, we're at about 26,500 or a 14.5% decrease.

 

However, there's nothing to say those numbers won't change and that we won't end up averaging 31,000 like last season...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?s...mp;seasonType=2

 

We'd have to average 34K from here on out to get to a 30,000 per game average and about 36000 to get all the way back to 31000.

 

It must be noted here is that the 2008 started to look at least "good" and were leading the division or close beginning as early as late May/June, whereas this team is least a month or six week behind the 08 version in terms of looking "pretty good."

 

Then throw in all the aforementioned reasons noted...

 

Even more interesting, it wouldn't be shocking if our attendance decrease fell right into line with our payroll decrease...cause and affect, KW? You have to spend money to make money, although you can't blame the White Sox and many other clubs for not ending up over-leveraged for the future with bloated contracts like the Cubs are loaded down with.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2009 by caulfield12