White Sox GM Hampered by low Attendance

[chiguy79]

That would be remarkably low. It wasn't anywhere near that after the 2007 debacle.

 

The economy wasn't in a debacle in 2007 either, I think the current economy is bad enough to convince 40-50% of season ticket holders to not renew, or at least to downgrade their package (maybe go from full to partial ST holder). Only more reason for the Sox to try to win the division to maintain the ST holder fanbase.

Edited July 8, 2009 by chiguy79

[whitesoxfan101]

Marte for Guerrier

Thornton for Borchard

Cotts as part of the Foulke/Koch trade

Jenks from the scrap heap

Takatsu

Hermanson

DJ Carrasco

Politte, etc.

 

Just relax. Sisco and Aardsma went south on us, but if the Sox under KW are BEST at any one thing, it's finding underperforming or "miscoached" talent in other organizations...just not drafting it (until Beckham.)

 

He also added salary with the addition of Ramon Castro, who hit a crucial 3 run homer for us in our winning streak.

 

None of those excuse trading one of your better prospects for a dime a dozen middle reliever, so I'm not sure I am getting your point.

[Dick Allen]

We knew this comment was coming. He put together a team that had no leadoff man, Dewayne Wise and Brent Lillibridge playing regularly, raised ticket prices lowered payroll in this economy, and the ineviatable happened. Its like a bakery saying they could only afford to sell day old bread and then saying we'd like to make some fresh stuff, but nobody is buying our crap. The Dodgers aren't a big White Sox draw. You overprice the tickets on a weekday with a day game thrown in, and mention that when guess what............................crying about money.

 

Other teams have all kinds of special deals. $1 items for concessions. Not the White Sox. They even charge more for a beer than the Cubs. I believe they also raised the price to park your car.

 

I'm really seething when I read this article. Its so damn predictable. Sorry, KW. Wake up and look at the world. Until a week or so ago, you had a boring, mediocre team. You're family cost index is eclipsed by only the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Cubs. None of those teams bother with the Brent Lillibridge's of the world.

 

Put together a club the fans can believe in and they will come. Its been proven. Try to sell them a bill of goods and you wind up with a sea of green. At least it looks better than blue.

[Dick Allen]

Not only does the economy suck, but ticket and parking prices were raised, plus we made moves more in salary dump mode than trying to win mode this winter, so ripping the fans is just stupid. And how is the Dodgers series an eye opener? It should be an eye opener that the people in our ticket office are freaking morons for charging premium prices for a midweek series against an NL team in June right before the Cubs visit. The idiocy of whoever made that decision is the eye opener.

If anything it should be an eye opener to whoever on their staff set pricing. What do they expect?

[Dick Allen]

It is what it is. That was 15 years ago, I guess when the Sox won in 2005 and they have boosted the payroll to over 100mil, I dont really think much about what used to be. Would winning in 1994 have changed my life? I dont know.

 

Right now the Sox are in the upper half in terms of payroll and in the lower half in terms of attendance.

 

Unless you think the Sox are about bleeding money, either attendance has to go up, or payroll has to go down (unless they make the playoffs etc and get a boosted revenue stream.)

Payroll went down from last year. According to USA today, only SD had a bigger pct. decrease.

[caulfield12]

If anything it should be an eye opener to whoever on their staff set pricing. What do they expect?

 

 

They should have handed back cash (or vouchers good for at least half the differential between premium and "regular" pricing) and that would have been a much better move than KW's constant bellyaching.

 

Without Manny Ramirez, mid-week, day games, with how bad the team looked for much of the early season, the fact they'd already had this 59 World Series match-up in 2005 when we had a great team...well, nobody on this message board was surprised.

 

Apparently the Sox marketing staff was, though, which tells you they are a little out of touch with reality or drinking too much of KW's intoxicating Kool-Aid.

 

 

[SoxFan562004]

Payroll went down from last year. According to USA today, only SD had a bigger pct. decrease.

This is also setting up for the offseason so that 40m that gets off the books will be replaced by "The Kids Can Play" part II.

 

This is really insulting as a White Sox fan for KW to say this stuff.

[iamshack]

I really don't get the anger over his comments.

 

He didn't say the fans sucked, he didn't say the team was unappreciated, he said their numbers are off of what they expected. I don't understand why that is such a venomous statement.

 

I swear, White Sox fans are incredibly thin-skinned and defensive, whether it comes to the Cubs, the attendance, or an outsider being objective about the organization.

[caulfield12]

If they deal Buehrle or Konerko (with the way he's been going this year), just wait...

 

They can live without Dye, Thome, AJ, Jenks, etc., but those two players I listed will draw a significant backlash if they were ever to be traded, even though many times since he signed his new contract, Konerko has failed to live up to it...he's a lot like the Mike Sweeney of this organization and he will be sorely missed by the front office, and even moreso by the fans, when he's gone.

 

And they do have Beckham (seemingly) to build around as one of the new faces of the organization, the Danks brothers, the Cubans, etc.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The worst part is that fake, unconcerned, half-ass non-committal diplomatic tone. He'd be better off saying, "Screw the fans for not showing up" instead of pretending to be somewhat unaware of the reasons for the low attendance. People are out of work, and they're not just going to come in droves after a nice stretch because last time your team did that they threw it right back in our faces by playing like horses***. And, you started DeWayne Wise in CF and backed it with your own personal mantra of "I don't care what people think," so take that you f***wad. I almost always defend Kenny and I think he's a top GM in the league, but some of his comments are really indefensible. Just come out and say whatever you're going to say, but don't sit there and hide behind this "I think" and "I don't know" bulls***. You know your farm system of previous years is a big part of the reason we're playing these young guys right now.

[SoxFan562004]

I really don't get the anger over his comments.

 

He didn't say the fans sucked, he didn't say the team was unappreciated, he said their numbers are off of what they expected. I don't understand why that is such a venomous statement.

 

I swear, White Sox fans are incredibly thin-skinned and defensive, whether it comes to the Cubs, the attendance, or an outsider being objective about the organization.

He points to the Dodgers series which was a premium series in the middle of the week and on top of it, the Sox raised ticket prices and parking and dumped payroll and the biggest thing is in this economy the comment shouldn't be made.

[Dick Allen]

It also probably didn't help that the Chairman called the 2008 team boring. I'm a season ticketholder, so KW isn't speaking about me, but it really pisses me off. Does anyone in the White Sox front office pay any attention to the news and current events? Maybe if they did they may figure out why people don't want to spend $250 on cheap seats to take their kids to a Tuesday night game against the Dodgers, a team they played in the WS well before most of the people in attendance were born.

 

Don't add anyone huge KW and blame the attendance. The attendance was gigantic in 2006, KW who did you add? It was decent in 2007 even though the team was pathetic, hey KW who did you add? Last year you added Ken Griffey Jr. and paid him a pretty decent amount of money to be mediocre even though he told you he was having some knee troubles. Huge addition KW.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

The worst part is that fake, unconcerned, half-ass non-committal diplomatic tone. He'd be better off saying, "Screw the fans for not showing up" instead of pretending to be somewhat unaware of the reasons for the low attendance. People are out of work, and they're not just going to come in droves after a nice stretch because last time your team did that they threw it right back in our faces by playing like horses***. And, you started DeWayne Wise in CF and backed it with your own personal mantra of "I don't care what people think," so take that you f***wad. I almost always defend Kenny and I think he's a top GM in the league, but some of his comments are really indefensible. Just come out and say whatever you're going to say, but don't sit there and hide behind this "I think" and "I don't know" bulls***. You know your farm system of previous years is a big part of the reason we're playing these young guys right now.

 

 

Agreed...starting the season with Lillibridge, Owens (later), Anderson, Corky Miller, MacDougal, Betemit, D. Wise, Colon/Contreras...that was just PRACTICALLY BEGGING for trouble. Fields and Getz weren't sure things either, although both looked very good in ST.

 

He really got bailed out a bit by Colon and Richard, now Contreras...and the emergence of Pods and Beckham to breathe some life into the offense. It's amazing the change now, and how other complementary players like Getz have less pressure upon them and can stay within themselves and quit trying to press to do too much.

 

And that's without Quentin for two months.

Edited July 8, 2009 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Agreed...starting the season with Lillibridge, Owens (later), Anderson, Corky Miller, MacDougal, Betemit, D. Wise, Colon/Contreras...that was just PRACTICALLY BEGGING for trouble. Fields and Getz weren't sure things either, although both looked very good in ST.

 

He really got bailed out a bit by Colon and Richard, now Contreras...and the emergence of Pods and Beckham to breathe some life into the offense. It's amazing the change now, and how other complementary players like Getz have less pressure upon them and can stay within themselves and trying to press to do too much.

 

And that's without Quentin for two months.

 

He got bailed out that the division is severely underachieving.

[whitesoxfan101]

I really don't get the anger over his comments.

 

He didn't say the fans sucked, he didn't say the team was unappreciated, he said their numbers are off of what they expected. I don't understand why that is such a venomous statement.

 

I swear, White Sox fans are incredibly thin-skinned and defensive, whether it comes to the Cubs, the attendance, or an outsider being objective about the organization.

 

My anger is the comment that the Dodgers series was an eye opener. When I got my magnetic schedule at the 3rd game of the year, I looked at it and was appaled they were charging premium for the Dodgers series, and also assumed it would be the lowest attended series of the year. To call out the fans over a mistake YOUR ticket office made in pricing is idiotic.

[iamshack]

He points to the Dodgers series which was a premium series in the middle of the week and on top of it, the Sox raised ticket prices and parking and dumped payroll and the biggest thing is in this economy the comment shouldn't be made.

 

This is Chicago, not Kansas City, not Minnesota, not Detroit, not Baltimore, not Milwaukee. This is a major market with a relatively high standard of living being achieved. Prices are not going to be what they are in Cincinnati. Get over it.

 

Sox fans are probably some of the most finnicky, most prone to complaining and whining, and defensive people in all of sports.

 

The Dodgers series should have drawn better; it was a series against the best team in baseball right now, one of the mlb's historic franchises, a team from another major market, etc. I don't think there is any question that the team should have drawn better that series.

 

 

[caulfield12]

He points to the Dodgers series which was a premium series in the middle of the week and on top of it, the Sox raised ticket prices and parking and dumped payroll and the biggest thing is in this economy the comment shouldn't be made.

 

 

I know KW is a savvy guy, but these comments could have come right out of the mouths of any GM/Chrysler/NYC major investment bank/AIG/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac CEO...just makes him and the marketing staff seem completely out of touch with what's reality in the marketplace.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Agreed...starting the season with Lillibridge, Owens (later), Anderson, Corky Miller, MacDougal, Betemit, D. Wise, Colon/Contreras...that was just PRACTICALLY BEGGING for trouble. Fields and Getz weren't sure things either, although both looked very good in ST.

 

He really got bailed out a bit by Colon and Richard, now Contreras...and the emergence of Pods and Beckham to breathe some life into the offense. It's amazing the change now, and how other complementary players like Getz have less pressure upon them and can stay within themselves and quit trying to press to do too much.

 

And that's without Quentin for two months.

Great point about Pods. Without him Kenny would have to think a lot more about reasons why the fans aren't showing up as much as was anticipated.

[SoxFan562004]

This is Chicago, not Kansas City, not Minnesota, not Detroit, not Baltimore, not Milwaukee. This is a major market with a relatively high standard of living being achieved. Prices are not going to be what they are in Cincinnati. Get over it.

 

Sox fans are probably some of the most finnicky, most prone to complaining and whining, and defensive people in all of sports.

 

The Dodgers series should have drawn better; it was a series against the best team in baseball right now, one of the mlb's historic franchises, a team from another major market, etc. I don't think there is any question that the team should have drawn better that series.

I fully understand what market this team is in, they raised prices on tickets and parking and as someone pointed out dumped the 2nd biggest % of salary to the Padres.

 

OK, maybe they should have drawn better for the Dodgers series, but who is to say they won't draw better in the future this year?

 

Maybe I've seen the economy completely gut good people and businesses and am a little sensitive to a comment like this at this time, but I won't apologize for thinking that KW should have not made this comment

[Dick Allen]

This is Chicago, not Kansas City, not Minnesota, not Detroit, not Baltimore, not Milwaukee. This is a major market with a relatively high standard of living being achieved. Prices are not going to be what they are in Cincinnati. Get over it.

 

Sox fans are probably some of the most finnicky, most prone to complaining and whining, and defensive people in all of sports.

 

The Dodgers series should have drawn better; it was a series against the best team in baseball right now, one of the mlb's historic franchises, a team from another major market, etc. I don't think there is any question that the team should have drawn better that series.

The state of Illinois has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. People are hurting. If they are only going to go to one or two games all season, why wouldn't they pick Boston or the Yankees, they are far more interesting than a Manny-less Dodger team? Or why not save a lot of money and see the Tigers or Twins in a divison match up that means a little more?

 

Whoever priced the game is trying to live off the 59 WS. They already celebrated that in 2005. If people were really that interested in the Dodgers they can go see them 8 miles north every season.

[caulfield12]

He got bailed out that the division is severely underachieving.

 

 

Which I think we (at SoxTalk) and KW also BET was what would happen...but how could he be surprised when we've had two good mini-runs and about 60 games of totally uninspired play (especially at home), shutouts nearly every week?? It's just not a good product...or it wasn't until recently. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. White Sox fans are not so easily duped by the ballpark "experience/ambience" as Cubs fans.

 

So he's arguing because we're now close/closer to first place, even though we've looked average to below average for much of three months...that his gambling should be rewarded by 05/06/08 level attendance when the product on the field is clearly inferior (until two weeks ago) to the 2008 version?

[SoxFan562004]

The state of Illinois has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. People are hurting. If they are only going to go to one or two games all season, why wouldn't they pick Boston or the Yankees, they are far more interesting than a Manny-less Dodger team? Or why not save a lot of money and see the Tigers or Twins in a divison match up that means a little more?

 

Whoever priced the game is trying to live off the 59 WS. They already celebrated that in 2005. If people were really that interested in the Dodgers they can go see them 8 miles north every season.

good point about those two series, those will likely draw well and at least average out the Dodgers series

[iamshack]

I know KW is a savvy guy, but these comments could have come right out of the mouths of any GM/Chrysler/NYC major investment bank/AIG/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac CEO...just makes him and the marketing staff seem completely out of touch with what's reality in the marketplace.

 

I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy.

 

While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have.

[SoxFan562004]

I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy.

 

While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have.

are you kidding?

 

I hate complaining about my problems, but I have been effected by the economy to the point where it would be hard for me to go to the typicall 10-15 Sox games I go to every year.

Edited July 8, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy.

 

While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have.

 

Attendance is down like 4,000 a game from 2008 right now, and if we continue to remain in the race, I'd bet by the end of the year the drop per game is even less than that. Fact is, there are a couple/few thousand people a night who aren't going to games this year because they can't afford it right now. That's a fact, not an excuse.