SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 So this came up briefly in the game thread and got me thinking. There have been a lot of trade rumors lately, mainly about Halladay of course, and there is the notion that the BJ's would demand Gordon Beckham in any deal for Halladay. So, that brings up the question, with what return would you be ok with dealing Gordon Beckham? To me, it's a really short list. 3 definite guys I'd have no problem with, and then a few guys maybe yes, maybe no. I'd have no problem if Lincecum, Pujols, or Hanley were coming to the South Side. Then you get into the guys like Grienke, maybe a Weiters, maybe a Justin Upton. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 It'd have to be someone of similar status (prospect wise), just playing another position. Otherwise, my list would extend to an established Top 10 major leaguer. I don't even like the idea of Lincecum because, while he's obviously a tremendous pitcher, he at best can only help you once every five days. I'm of the kind that thinks you trade pitchers for pitchers, positional players for position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:14 PM) It'd have to be someone of similar status (prospect wise), just playing another position. Otherwise, my list would extend to an established Top 10 major leaguer. I don't even like the idea of Lincecum because, while he's obviously a tremendous pitcher, he at best can only help you once every five days. I'm of the kind that thinks you trade pitchers for pitchers, positional players for position players. But look at how well MIN did dealing Pierzynski! And as far as top 10 established players, well, you'd have to take money and age into consideration. Johan would be great, but that deal would grab us by the kinyigen. Same thing with a Teixeira or Sabathia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Tim Lincecum is the best pitcher in baseball. I see strong indicators that he could continue to do this for years to come. Hypothetically, they want Beckham, we give them Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:17 PM) Tim Lincecum is the best pitcher in baseball. I see strong indicators that he could continue to do this for years to come. Hypothetically, they want Beckham, we give them Beckham. Obviously I don't see SF or STL knocking on our door offering Lincecum or Pujols for Beckham, but I'm saying from a purely hypothetical standpoint, I'd have zero issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I wouldn't mind trading Beckham for Lincecum (obviously involving something else from our end) if we had some other players possibly available to offset his absence. He's been productive, for one, but additionally, he's league minimum. For all the obvious reasons it wouldn't occur (Lincecum is one of the best pitchers in the league and Beckham is nowhere near one of hte best 3B), you have to figure, it's just not good to trade your productive first round draft pick one year after drafting him. I imagine Mitchell would think twice about signing here if he has proof that we're capable of it. And yes, I know we did it with Royce Ring; but he was crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 MMMMMM, Hypothetical Bacon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Not Lincecum because his delivery still scares me. Don't know about Hanley because we'd move him to CF and he'd probably make enough mistakes that his offense wouldn't appear quite as ungodly. Justin Upton, Pujols, Haren, and Longoria all get it done for me though. The main thing is that yes, there will be lots of guys who are better players, but Gordon is very cheap for a long time. Either a young, proven ace workhorse or a young, proven elite hitter under team control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I understand the excitement in regards to Gordon, and now the mainstream media is beginning to discuss him as a "star in waiting," etc., but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Three players? Come on.... Ryan Braun, Ian Kinsler, David Wright, Chase Utley, HanRam, Evan Longoria, Nick Markakis, Cole Hamels, King Felix, Mark Teixeira, Yovani Gallardo, Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Adam Jones...I mean, I could go on and on....there are soo many good young players in mlb right now...Gordon might be part of that group in a year or two...but he hasn't done enough yet to warrant THIS kind of praise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) Not Lincecum because his delivery still scares me. Don't know about Hanley because we'd move him to CF and he'd probably make enough mistakes that his offense wouldn't appear quite as ungodly. Justin Upton, Pujols, Haren, and Longoria all get it done for me though. The main thing is that yes, there will be lots of guys who are better players, but Gordon is very cheap for a long time. Either a young, proven ace workhorse or a young, proven elite hitter under team control. That's Lincecum. Is Cy Young not good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) Not Lincecum because his delivery still scares me. There's an arguement to be made that Tiny Tim's delivery is the most fundamentally sound delivery in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:33 PM) There's an arguement to be made that Tiny Tim's delivery is the most fundamentally sound delivery in the game. I haven't heard that argument. Love to hear it made, although I'm about to head home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) I understand the excitement in regards to Gordon, and now the mainstream media is beginning to discuss him as a "star in waiting," etc., but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Three players? Come on.... Ryan Braun, Ian Kinsler, David Wright, Chase Utley, HanRam, Evan Longoria, Nick Markakis, Cole Hamels, King Felix, Mark Teixeira, Yovani Gallardo, Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Adam Jones...I mean, I could go on and on....there are soo many good young players in mlb right now...Gordon might be part of that group in a year or two...but he hasn't done enough yet to warrant THIS kind of praise. Kinsler is hitting .252. We can't afford 1/3 of the guys you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:36 PM) Kinsler is hitting .252. Adam Jones? We can't afford 1/3 of the guys you mentioned. Kinsler is on pace to hit 40 home runs, knock in 107, score 121 runs and steal 32 bases, all at a premium position in 2b. Not good enough for you? When Slayer starts putting up those numbers, you come find me. Adam Jones is having a very solid year batting .304 and is on pace for 23 homers, 89 rbi, 101 runs scored, with a handful of sb's and a mid-800's OPS in his first full big league season at the age of 24. Sorry, not good enough for you either? And we can afford plenty of the guys on that list, with the exception of Teixeira probably. If you honestly would only trade Gordon for three players in the entire league right now, you have some seriously high expectations for him....unrealistic expectations IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:42 PM) When Slayer starts putting up those numbers, you come find me. Are you going somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:42 PM) Kinsler is on pace to hit 40 home runs, knock in 107, score 121 runs and steal 32 bases, all at a premium position in 2b. Not good enough for you? When Slayer starts putting up those numbers, you come find me. Adam Jones is having a very solid year batting .304 and is on pace for 23 homers, 89 rbi, 101 runs scored, with a handful of sb's and a mid-800's OPS in his first full big league season at the age of 24. Sorry, not good enough for you either? And we can afford plenty of the guys on that list, with the exception of Teixeira probably. If you honestly would only trade Gordon for three players in the entire league right now, you have some seriously high expectations for him....unrealistic expectations IMHO. Kinsler does the same s*** every season. He has an awesome 1st month or 2 than severely cools off. He's been on pace to hit 40 HR every May for the past 3-4 years. He can't survive the Texas summers. He's still hitting .252 and has an OBP thats .002 points higher than Alexei's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I'd take Sizemore straight up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:46 PM) Kinsler does the same s*** every season. He has an awesome 1st month or 2 than severely cools off. He's been on pace to hit 40 HR every May for the past 3-4 years. He can't survive the Texas summers. He's still hitting .252 and has an OBP thats .002 points higher than Alexei's. Not going to deny that he seems to start out hot. And he has been an injury-prone player in the past, but he has already eclipsed his HR totals for the previous years. Correct me if I am wrong, but if the problem is the Texas summers, what does that have to do with him playing in Chicago? Wouldn't we in fact be buying low then if that was the case? Say what you want about his OBP, but he's also sporting a .500 Slugging percentage, for a second baseman. If the Rangers offered us Kinsler for Beckham right now, you'd turn it down? The guy is everything we want Beckham to be, except he has already proven he can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:55 PM) If the Rangers offered us Kinsler for Beckham right now, you'd turn it down? The guy is everything we want Beckham to be, except he has already proven he can do it. Yes, I'd turn it down. And no, he is nothing close to what I want Gordon Beckham to be. I want Beckham to be the 2008 Ian Kinsler not the 2009 Ian Kinsler. .315 AVG, .375 OBP, 18 HR, 76 RBI, 41 2B, 26 SB. BTW, Kinsler's OPS outside of Arlington since 2006: .752 And it's .680 this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:59 PM) Yes, I'd turn it down. And no, he is nothing close to what I want Gordon Beckham to be. I want Beckham to be the 2008 Ian Kinsler not the 2009 Ian Kinsler. .315 AVG, .375 OBP, 18 HR, 76 RBI, 41 2B, 26 SB. BTW, Kinsler's OPS outside of Arlington since 2006: .752 And it's .680 this season. Well, keep in mind you're posting his numbers the day after he just broke an 0-20 streak. Let's revisit this again in a month. As for his numbers outside of Arlington, do you really mean to suggest he would not flourish in our ballpark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:04 PM) Well, keep in mind you're posting his numbers the day after he just broke an 0-20 streak. Let's revisit this again in a month. As for his numbers outside of Arlington, do you really mean to suggest he would not flourish in our ballpark? Well, considering that the Ballpark in Arlington is basically the best hitters park in the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:07 PM) Well, considering that the Ballpark in Arlington is basically the best hitters park in the world... And what are the next few? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:11 PM) And what are the next few? It doesn't matter. No matter where he goes, it's not going to carry like it does in Arlington. A .447 point gap in OPS in his home/road splits is EXTREMELY relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 There are some more arguable ones, but I'd probably take all of these if you asked me right this second (age and salary matter, so no guys Utley/Tex)... Pujols Hanley Ramirez Lincecum Mauer Grienke Haren King Felix Longoria Braun Fielder (probably take him off once he gets a new deal) Morneau Justin Upton Kershaw Talk to me at the end of this season or next year and the list could change a lot either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:16 PM) There are some more arguable ones, but I'd probably take all of these if you asked me right this second (age and salary matter, so no guys Utley/Tex)... Pujols Hanley Ramirez Lincecum Mauer Grienke Haren King Felix Longoria Braun Fielder (probably take him off once he gets a new deal) Morneau Justin Upton Kershaw Talk to me at the end of this season or next year and the list could change a lot either way. That's a pretty damn good list. I'd remove Grienke because I'm not sold on him yet at all. Obviously some of those wouldn't make a ton of sense right now position wise either, but I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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