BearSox Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 09:38 PM) I would say at this point, Dexter Carter probably has to throw a no hitter to finally move up to high A. He has a great K:BB ratio, but he has been far from dominant in low A. His ERA is solid but unspectacular, and while he K's a lot of people, he also gives up a decent amount of hits as his opp. BA is not that impressive as it is .245, probably closer to .250 after today. I like Carter, but I don't think he's quite really earned a promotion yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Halladay pitches in one of the toughest divisions year in and year out while Haren pitches in a pretty weak NL division. Lots different going up against San Diego LA and Colorado all year versus Boston NY and Tampa Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 09:55 PM) Halladay pitches in one of the toughest divisions year in and year out while Haren pitches in a pretty weak NL division. Lots different going up against San Diego LA and Colorado all year versus Boston NY and Tampa Bay. Are you forgetting about the years he pitched in the AL and when he pitched pretty damn solid for the A's in the playoffs? Even in his sophomore season he was very solid for the Cards in the 04 WS. He's proven in both leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 09:53 PM) He has a great K:BB ratio, but he has been far from dominant in low A. His ERA is solid but unspectacular, and while he K's a lot of people, he also gives up a decent amount of hits as his opp. BA is not that impressive as it is .245, probably closer to .250 after today. I like Carter, but I don't think he's quite really earned a promotion yet. Bull, He and Hudson had nearly identical numbers in their first 4 starts in April. Hudson (rightfully so), gets the promotion and Carter is still pitching in low A. Now I don't know if it was mechanics to work on more with Carter or maturity issues (which I heard a rumor from) but he was actually well ahead of the curve in low A. I don't care if his era was 4.50, if your striking out guys at a ridiculous pace (10+ K9), not to mention your BB is very low (2.5 BB9), and your H to IP is solid, with a low WHIP, your ass should not be stuck in low A this long. Hell he had better numbers than Hudson in Great falls last year and was one of their dynamic go to pitchers in the playoffs. He should not be in low A this long plain and simple, even if it was maturity issues which I still seriously doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 10:17 PM) Bull, He and Hudson had nearly identical numbers in their first 4 starts in April. Hudson (rightfully so), gets the promotion and Carter is still pitching in low A. Now I don't know if it was mechanics to work on more with Carter or maturity issues (which I heard a rumor from) but he was actually well ahead of the curve in low A. I don't care if his era was 4.50, if your striking out guys at a ridiculous pace (10+ K9), not to mention your BB is very low (2.5 BB9), and your H to IP is solid, with a low WHIP, your ass should not be stuck in low A this long. Hell he had better numbers than Hudson in Great falls last year and was one of their dynamic go to pitchers in the playoffs. He should not be in low A this long plain and simple, even if it was maturity issues which I still seriously doubt. Ever think he still is very raw as a pitcher and we are still working on him refining his mechanics/stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 09:12 PM) Jon Gilmore with a walk-off double in the 9th for a 5-4 Kanny win. CJ Retherford with a bases-clearing 3-run double to help Birmingham regain the lead against Mississippi. Barons up 7-3 in the 7th. Heyward almost caught it. Would've killed that rally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 10:26 PM) Ever think he still is very raw as a pitcher and we are still working on him refining his mechanics/stuff? Well no s***.. coulda sworn I said something about mechanics (and/or maturity issues) on my original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 08:00 PM) Are you forgetting about the years he pitched in the AL and when he pitched pretty damn solid for the A's in the playoffs? Even in his sophomore season he was very solid for the Cards in the 04 WS. He's proven in both leagues. Still, dominating the NL West is not the same as dominating the AL East. I understand that he's a proven star but Halladay pitches in the pressure cooker that is the AL East, that league is very good every single season and have two teams with murderers row lineups and he performs every single season against them, that earns big time kudos and puts him ahead of Haren in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 On the Carter topic, I think you can make a case either way. He has done very well, but he isn't overwhelming the league. Even tonight with ridiculous numbers he gave up 4 earned runs. It really is more about your philosophy regarding promotions. Whether or not you want to rush a guy or take it slow is a matter of opinion. Carter is on the line where you could be right for either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 02:04 AM) On the Carter topic, I think you can make a case either way. He has done very well, but he isn't overwhelming the league. Even tonight with ridiculous numbers he gave up 4 earned runs. It really is more about your philosophy regarding promotions. Whether or not you want to rush a guy or take it slow is a matter of opinion. Carter is on the line where you could be right for either. I don't see what the problem is. Not sure what your definition of "overwhelming" is, but there's no reason he should still be in low A ball. At least not on the surface. His K/9, BB/9, K/BB rates are all well above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 06:35 AM) I don't see what the problem is. Not sure what your definition of "overwhelming" is, but there's no reason he should still be in low A ball. At least not on the surface. His K/9, BB/9, K/BB rates are all well above average. Maybe they don't feel he is mentally ready. Maybe he loses composure at tough times. Maybe there isn't room ahead of him. There are many reasons other than numbers that they may feel he isn't ready. Organizations evaulate the talent not just the numbers from afar. To say there is not reason he should be there is somewhat short sighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 With Cook taking Allen's spot in Charlotte, they moved Kroeger from RF to 1B. Makes sense. Remenowsky strikes out the side, again, to close the Kanny game. Over 32.2 IP, he how has 57 K and just 8 BB, a 1.93 ERA, a 0.88 WHIP, and batters hit .181 against him. He hasn't given up a run since a month ago (June 10th), which is ten outings. When does this guy get promoted? QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 08:02 PM) Lucy heating up. Got his average up to .218! Both Charlotte catchers are, after both were doing dismally. Armstrong started heating up earlier though. I think the Sox were hoping one of those two guys would stand out this year so they could choose who would be the future backup C. But both have disappointed. Unless one of them can stay hot for another month or so, they've both pretty much punched their ticket out of the organization. QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 08:06 PM) If he doesn't, maybe the Sox are looking at Torres as a possible bullpen option. Not that there is currently any room right now though. That does seem interesting, to put Torres in relief, but that may have been the only option short of going to a 6 man rotation while Colon is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) With Cook taking Allen's spot in Charlotte, they moved Kroeger from RF to 1B. Makes sense. Remenowsky strikes out the side, again, to close the Kanny game. Over 32.2 IP, he how has 57 K and just 8 BB, a 1.93 ERA, a 0.88 WHIP, and batters hit .181 against him. He hasn't given up a run since a month ago (June 10th), which is ten outings. When does this guy get promoted? Both Charlotte catchers are, after both were doing dismally. Armstrong started heating up earlier though. I think the Sox were hoping one of those two guys would stand out this year so they could choose who would be the future backup C. But both have disappointed. Unless one of them can stay hot for another month or so, they've both pretty much punched their ticket out of the organization. That does seem interesting, to put Torres in relief, but that may have been the only option short of going to a 6 man rotation while Colon is there. It was Torres' turn in the rotation, he just piggy backed Colon's start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 08:41 AM) It was Torres' turn in the rotation, he just piggy backed Colon's start. Heard Don Cooper say this morning that Colon is on the right rest to pitch in the DH on July 24th. But he also said that some others in the organization were, too. Given that Torres followed Colon last night, I'd think that Carlos is also in the picture to possibly start in the DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 regarding carter, i wouldn't be surprised if they're keeping him at low A for now to make sure he maintains the dominant #s for the sake of his trade value. he's a good arm, but he's a serious flyball pitcher, and cuz of that i have trouble seeing him making it to the bigs with a team that plays in the cell. he'd have better value for someone with less of a HR ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Regarding Carter... I think you have to take into consideration that the reason he's still in Kannapolis may have nothing to do with his performance. For example, they may have him working on certain pitches and don't want him to have to adjust to dealing with a new level at the same time... or they want him working with specific coaches... or it may be based on which pitching coach has more time to work with him given their current load and responsibilities, etc. Can't just assume that performance alone triggers the decision to move a guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:17 AM) Bull, He and Hudson had nearly identical numbers in their first 4 starts in April. Hudson (rightfully so), gets the promotion and Carter is still pitching in low A. Now I don't know if it was mechanics to work on more with Carter or maturity issues (which I heard a rumor from) but he was actually well ahead of the curve in low A. I don't care if his era was 4.50, if your striking out guys at a ridiculous pace (10+ K9), not to mention your BB is very low (2.5 BB9), and your H to IP is solid, with a low WHIP, your ass should not be stuck in low A this long. Hell he had better numbers than Hudson in Great falls last year and was one of their dynamic go to pitchers in the playoffs. He should not be in low A this long plain and simple, even if it was maturity issues which I still seriously doubt. Much more to being a pitcher than having good K:BB ratio. How does he handle adversity, how consistent is he. Just let the org do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 05:23 AM) Maybe they don't feel he is mentally ready. Maybe he loses composure at tough times. Maybe there isn't room ahead of him. There are many reasons other than numbers that they may feel he isn't ready. Organizations evaulate the talent not just the numbers from afar. To say there is not reason he should be there is somewhat short sighted. *Ding Ding Ding* I do think you'll see him promoted soon though but the Sox are taking the slow route with him for that precise reason. Mentally he's got a lot to learn and he's just not mature on the mound so to speak. Great arm though and his maturity isn't like bad immaturity, just that he has to work on his poise, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 08:59 AM) Heard Don Cooper say this morning that Colon is on the right rest to pitch in the DH on July 24th. But he also said that some others in the organization were, too. Given that Torres followed Colon last night, I'd think that Carlos is also in the picture to possibly start in the DH. I wouldn't mind seeing Torres get a shot on the 24th. He's having a great year. What's the book on him, anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) I wouldn't mind seeing Torres get a shot on the 24th. He's having a great year. What's the book on him, anyway? If you search via Google on this forum, you'll find stuff - we had this discussion about him, maybe a month ago, and some folks dug up some scouting reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 09:08 AM) With Cook taking Allen's spot in Charlotte, they moved Kroeger from RF to 1B. Makes sense. This doesn't bode well for Josh Fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) This doesn't bode well for Josh Fields. No one's dumping Josh Fields for Josh Kroeger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:17 PM) No one's dumping Josh Fields for Josh Kroeger. Yeah, they are not seen as the same, plus they have different position sets. Both can play 1B and hit DH, but Kroeger is a corner OF backup, and Fields is primarily a 3B. I actually think Kroeger could hit better than Fields right now probably, but the team doesn't need a corner OF / 1B guy with Quentin coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:17 PM) No one's dumping Josh Fields for Josh Kroeger. I think it says more about Kroeger's outfield ability (or lack of). Learning to play first base is probably his best shot of making it to the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 04:23 PM) I think it says more about Kroeger's outfield ability (or lack of). Learning to play first base is probably his best shot of making it to the majors. If he can learn to play 1B competently, he can be somewhat like a Ross Gload type player, but lower average and more power. 1B/OF LH hitting guy for the bench. Which isn't really something the Sox need ATM, but next year they might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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