Linnwood Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) And when Hawk said he wanted to die in the booth, he almost got his wish tonight. He about burst a blood vessel on that DP. He wasn't the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Is it just me or do we have this exact same series of posts with the exact same posters participating, reaching the exact same conclusion about once every month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:27 PM) The numbers don't lie, however I know some people will never actually look at them because of how fun 2005 was. That's fine though, it doesn't bother me a great deal. I look at one number. Wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:32 PM) Crede may not be the player he once was, and he wasn't great with us by any means. But the man played a huge role in the stretch and post season run in 2005 and I believe he deserves a bit more respect than just saying he sucks. When the Sox hold a reunion of the team in 2025, you young guys will be hitting your feet for Joe Crede because you will remember what he did and it's very possible that 2005 may be the only World Series victory you have ever experienced at that time. I was 47, almost 48, years old when I saw my first Sox WS Championship. I appreciate those guys. Each and every one of them. Crede, more than most. My opinion of Joe Crede will not change. I will appreciate what he did in 2005, but realize at the same time what kind of player he actually was during his time on the south side. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:36 PM) I look at one number. Wins. For teams, I do the same thing. But since you can't actually measure wins and losses with individual players, I look at their personal numbers. And Joe Crede's numbers say he was a slightly below average offensive player overall while in Chicago, and a plus defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 12:32 AM) Crede may not be the player he once was, and he wasn't great with us by any means. But the man played a huge role in the stretch and post season run in 2005 and I believe he deserves a bit more respect than just saying he sucks. I love Dye, but I’ll contend there’s a strong case to be made for Crede being the World Series MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Man, that was rough. I'm just as much as a smartass at the stadium as I am here, so it was great to rub it in their faces. So much for Thome not being "clutch." He also hooked us up with tickets to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) My opinion of Joe Crede will not change. I will appreciate what he did in 2005, but realize at the same time what kind of player he actually was during his time on the south side. For teams, I do the same thing. But since you can't actually measure wins and losses with individual players, I look at their personal numbers. And Joe Crede's numbers say he was a slightly below average offensive player overall while in Chicago, and a plus defender. My opinion of your opinion will not change. It sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) I love Dye, but I’ll contend there’s a strong case to be made for Crede being the World Series MVP. He was definitely the MVP of the stretch run and the post season. No doubt in my mind about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:42 PM) My opinion of your opinion will not change. It sucks. You can say it sucks, but "he helped us win in 2005" is not legitimate reasoning as to why it sucks. So I would say your saying my opinion sucks sucks more than my opinion. Edited July 12, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 04:39 AM) I love Dye, but I'll contend there's a strong case to be made for Crede being the World Series MVP. Hell, a strong case could be made for Neal Cotts, as he got some big outs in all games (ok, that's stretching the MVP discussion I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:44 PM) You can say it sucks, but "he helped us win in 2005" is not legitimate reasoning as to why it sucks. So I would say your saying my opinion sucks sucks more than my opinion. Again, your opinion sucks. I'm not even saying you suck. I'm showing you more respect than you are Joe Crede. I may have rethink that stance, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (YASNY @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:46 PM) Again, your opinion sucks. I'm not even saying you suck. I'm showing you more respect than you are Joe Crede. I may have rethink that stance, though. I echo your sentiments, except the Crede part obviously. Edited July 12, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:47 PM) I echo your sentiments, except the Crede part obviously. Fair enough. On that note, I let things be as they are. Have a good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) My opinion of Joe Crede will not change. I will appreciate what he did in 2005, but realize at the same time what kind of player he actually was during his time on the south side. For teams, I do the same thing. But since you can't actually measure wins and losses with individual players, I look at their personal numbers. And Joe Crede's numbers say he was a slightly below average offensive player overall while in Chicago, and a plus defender. Actually you can. Instead of burying yourself in the individual stats, you can realize that some times the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Some guys are winners. Joe Crede is a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I don't know why this always ends up being one or the other with Crede, so the discussions border on ridiculous at times. The facts are that Crede carried this team in the second half of '05 and through the playoffs, cementing his place in White Sox history as a big reason for that championship. In his time with the Sox he was a monster of an all-around 3B for a period during 2005-2006 (note that I specified the time) until his back started becoming a problem, having him on and off the DL and in varying states of effectiveness (usually bad) which led to us having to let him go. Since he's been with the Twins he's been an average hitter at best and letting him go was the right thing to do. Yet we still end up somehow having 2 camps, one that says "bow in deference to Crede" and the other saying "Joe Crede sucks." Or at least that's how the 2 camps perceive each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:51 PM) Actually you can. Instead of burying yourself in the individual stats, you can realize that some times the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Some guys are winners. Joe Crede is a winner. If you aren't into individuals and stats, than baseball clearly isn't the sport for you because that's what the sport really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:51 PM) Actually you can. Instead of burying yourself in the individual stats, you can realize that some times the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Some guys are winners. Joe Crede is a winner. Wisdom is such a rare occurance around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 12:51 AM) Actually you can. Instead of burying yourself in the individual stats, you can realize that some times the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Some guys are winners. Joe Crede is a winner. I agree with you about the sum of parts and teamwork concept (and Joe Crede being a part of that) but to be dismissive of stats makes no sense. Stats are actual results of plays that tells you what a player did and how effective he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:53 PM) If you aren't into individuals and stats, than baseball clearly isn't the sport for you because that's what the sport really is. If you think baseball is all about stats, you are missing a very special game that happens in between the foul lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Great win. A needed win. I was ready to tip my TV over when Jenks gave up the bases loaded single. Then I was ready to tip it over when they turned the DP. Joe Crede is not now and probably never will be the Joe Crede of 2005. He's a good defensive 3rd baseman that can't hit very well now. I know, I know two homers tonight...but it was against his old club, and Floyd did not pitch to him well. But I will always remember what he did for our Sox in 2005. Without him, the Sox do not have that WS championship. We take the series tomorrow, and we go into the break in great shape. Go Sox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:55 PM) I agree with you about the sum of parts and teamwork concept (and Joe Crede being a part of that) but to be dismissive of stats makes no sense. Stats are actual results of plays that tells you what a player did and how effective he is. The great thing about baseball is there are many things that do not show up on the stat page, no matter how much we try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:52 PM) I don't know why this always ends up being one or the other with Crede, so the discussions border on ridiculous at times. The facts are that Crede carried this team in the second half of '05 and through the playoffs, cementing his place in White Sox history as a big reason for that championship. In his time with the Sox he was a monster of an all-around 3B for a period during 2005-2006 (note that I specified the time) until his back started becoming a problem, having him on and off the DL and in varying states of effectiveness (usually bad) which led to us having to let him go. Since he's been with the Twins he's been an average hitter at best and letting him go was the right thing to do. Yet we still end up somehow having 2 camps, one that says "bow in deference to Crede" and the other saying "Joe Crede sucks." Or at least that's how the 2 camps perceive each other. I will say that I truly believe Joe Crede's back was a problem during most of his time with the Sox, and if Joe writes in his book one day that the only time his back felt good was late 2005 and the first half of 2006, it wouldn't surprise me because I think he could have been a very good all around player (well above average) had his back never bothered him. But unfortunately, it did, so that never really happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:55 PM) If you think baseball is all about stats, you are missing a very special game that happens in between the foul lines. It's not all about stats, but the majority of baseball is about stats and the individuals that put them up. To simply ignore stats or diminish their importance is very unwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:52 PM) I don't know why this always ends up being one or the other with Crede, so the discussions border on ridiculous at times. The facts are that Crede carried this team in the second half of '05 and through the playoffs, cementing his place in White Sox history as a big reason for that championship. In his time with the Sox he was a monster of an all-around 3B for a period during 2005-2006 (note that I specified the time) until his back started becoming a problem, having him on and off the DL and in varying states of effectiveness (usually bad) which led to us having to let him go. Since he's been with the Twins he's been an average hitter at best and letting him go was the right thing to do. Yet we still end up somehow having 2 camps, one that says "bow in deference to Crede" and the other saying "Joe Crede sucks." Or at least that's how the 2 camps perceive each other. Another very insightful post. However, all I'm saying is that Crede deserves more respect than "He sucks." Any Sox fan should respect the man more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2009 -> 11:58 PM) It's not all about stats, but the majority of baseball is about stats and the individuals that put them up. To simply ignore stats or diminish their importance is very unwise. So is to completely believe in stats and to ignore the results on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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