Marty34 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Surprised Goldstein's assessment of Viciedo so far hasn't generated much response. He has shown a swing at anything approach with little power and is out of shape. I think it's too soon to label him a bust, but that clock has started to tick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) He's still very young and had a very tumultuous off-season getting signed, residency, finding a place to live and all. To me, this year showed me he has talent, he just needs refining. Hopefully, he's lose weight this off-season, become a little more comfortable with America and next year, explode. Just think though, if any one of us were transplanted into a completely unfamiliar country where we don't speak the language, I think our first year doing whatever, sport or work, would get off slowly, too. He is still 2+ years away, so I am not worried at all. Edited July 12, 2009 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 09:44 AM) Surprised Goldstein's assessment of Viciedo so far hasn't generated much response. He has shown a swing at anything approach with little power and is out of shape. I think it's too soon to label him a bust, but that clock has started to tick. A 20-year old in AA playing his first year of professional baseball has a clock ticking on him? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) A 20-year old in AA playing his first year of professional baseball has a clock ticking on him? I don't think so. They had to have expected more for the $10M they gave him. The idea that he's out of shape and a neutral observer like Goldstein labeled him very disappointing is troubling to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 If you want to compare him to someone, he is comparable to a top 5 pick in the 2007 draft money wise. He's basically our Josh Vitters, and Vitters is getting his ass handed to him in high A ball. Bill Rowell of the Orioles from the 06 draft is another comparable 3B, and he's stuck in high A struggling as well. Viciedo is on pace for about 70 RBI's in his first profesionally season as a 19/20 year old in AA. I don't even remember the last 19 year old we had at AA. Garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) His OPS in AA is about 100 points lower than Crede's major league career OPS and Viciedo has made 20 errors, and we know that most around here think Crede sucks. Viciedo is only 20, so there is no need to panic, but I think most expected more from him at this point. There were a number of people on this board who didn't even think he would play in the minors, now its maybe 2 or 3 years in the minors.....The Sox still have his 6 year rights, so I don't think the clock is ticking on him yet as a player, but certainly his contract is ticking a bit. Ever year in the minors is one less the Sox have exclusive rights to in the majors. The guy has had a lot to adjust to, but I would consider dissappointment to be fairly accurate. Its a lot different and better than bust. What was interesting about the Goldstein interview was that he was really high on several guys but has the Sox still middle of the pack industry-wide. It just goes to show how bad the system was previously. Edited July 12, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 10:52 AM) If you want to compare him to someone, he is comparable to a top 5 pick in the 2007 draft money wise. He's basically our Josh Vitters, and Vitters is getting his ass handed to him in high A ball. Bill Rowell of the Orioles from the 06 draft is another comparable 3B, and he's stuck in high A struggling as well. Viciedo is on pace for about 70 RBI's in his first profesionally season as a 19/20 year old in AA. I don't even remember the last 19 year old we had at AA. Garland? Ryan Sweeney was 20 when he played for the Barons. He was way overmatched that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) Ryan Sweeney was 20 when he played for the Barons. He was way overmatched that season. Its really hard to judge a guy who is 20 on some AA at bats especially considering his situation. I just think most thought Viciedo would be hitting a lot better right now. He's going to have to make adjustments. How's his attitude? That was supposedly at least some concern when he was playing in Cuba? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 12:13 PM) How's his attitude? That was supposedly at least some concern when he was playing in Cuba? Hard to tell, i imagine. When the kid can't speak english. His work ethic is more of a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) Its really hard to judge a guy who is 20 on some AA at bats especially considering his situation. I just think most thought Viciedo would be hitting a lot better right now. He's going to have to make adjustments. How's his attitude? That was supposedly at least some concern when he was playing in Cuba? His attitude is fine, he just doesn't like to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:15 AM) His attitude is fine, he just doesn't like to fail. When I first looked at Viciedo and I saw Carlos Lee. CLee when he was 20, was at Hickory and hit 8 homers in 480 AB. He played at Birmingham when he was 22 and hit .300 with 21 homers. I think if Viciedo was in Birmingham in 2011, he could match those numbers. Hopefully, he'll be a lot farther along by then. I think expectations were probably way too high for him, at least initial expectations. Maybe he repeats Birmingham next year, or maybe he puts it all together in the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:32 AM) When I first looked at Viciedo and I saw Carlos Lee. CLee when he was 20, was at Hickory and hit 8 homers in 480 AB. He played at Birmingham when he was 22 and hit .300 with 21 homers. I think if Viciedo was in Birmingham in 2011, he could match those numbers. Hopefully, he'll be a lot farther along by then. I think expectations were probably way too high for him, at least initial expectations. Maybe he repeats Birmingham next year, or maybe he puts it all together in the second half. He's tremendously talented and has unbelieveable bat speed. But, he is raw and needs refinement. I've said many times that he doesn't pull the ball much. He usually goes the other way, which is something that is the opposite with young hitters. When he starts pulling the ball more, he will be deadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I fully expect Dayan to get in better shape this off-season and have a really solid year next year. He should start in AA and I think he will have a solid year of maybe: .280-.290, 15-20 HRs and 80 RBIs. Improve the walk rate and lower the K rate, play better D, as well. I honestly cannot imagine how difficult this year has been for him adjusting a new country not speaking English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) He's tremendously talented and has unbelieveable bat speed. But, he is raw and needs refinement. I've said many times that he doesn't pull the ball much. He usually goes the other way, which is something that is the opposite with young hitters. When he starts pulling the ball more, he will be deadly. Frank Thomas used to hit a lot to RC when he first came up, of course he was far more patient than Viciedo, and far more patient than most who have ever played the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Didn't the bulk of Viciedo's 20 errors come his first couple of months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) I fully expect Dayan to get in better shape this off-season and have a really solid year next year. He should start in AA and I think he will have a solid year of maybe: .280-.290, 15-20 HRs and 80 RBIs. Improve the walk rate and lower the K rate, play better D, as well. Even if he accomplishes that, I'm not sure he'd be an elite prospect or even worth the $10M paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Viciedo has had an awful month of July. I've been pretty critical of him this season (I think a lot of it had to deal with the expectations the organization had for him THIS YEAR). He needs to have a strong 2nd half for a lot of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think it's fine to say that we've been disappointed because we expected more from him, but it's not really time to start waving red flags on him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 07:40 PM) I think it's fine to say that we've been disappointed because we expected more from him, but it's not really time to start waving red flags on him yet. I think part of the problem was the unrealistic expectations we had for a 19-year-old, playing his first minor league season in his first year ever in the United States. Granted, I had lofty expectations for him, but I think the Sox are certainly not worried about him otherwise they would have demoted him. We just need to remember how young and were he is playing. Usually, AA has more future talent than AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEdWalsh Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 06:46 PM) I think part of the problem was the unrealistic expectations we had for a 19-year-old, playing his first minor league season in his first year ever in the United States. Granted, I had lofty expectations for him, but I think the Sox are certainly not worried about him otherwise they would have demoted him. We just need to remember how young and were he is playing. Usually, AA has more future talent than AAA. He is still so young. If I'm not mistaken, he's younger than every player on the Great Falls roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Even if he accomplishes that, I'm not sure he'd be an elite prospect or even worth the $10M paid. as a 21 year old in AA, that's a pretty solid year, especially if he's hitting the ball in the gaps and he develops a better eye at the plate. I basically view 20 homers in AA as 30+ home power at the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Jul 12, 2009 -> 11:23 PM) He is still so young. If I'm not mistaken, he's younger than every player on the Great Falls roster. Yep. There are only 7 players in the WhiteSox minor league system younger than Viciedo. Six of them are in Bristol. The other is Nevin Griffith... who is two days younger than Dayan. Edited July 13, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Phil Rogers wrote an article on Dayan. It's from the Futures Game, Flowers gets a mention as well. I was especially interested in this part... "I learn something new every day," said Viciedo, who is hitting .264 with six homers and 47 RBIs. "We have a very good team, very good players on our team, and everybody gets along very well. It's been very good." Did Rogers forget to write 'said Viciedo in Spanish' or 'through a translator' or have we been mistaken on Dayan's ability to speak English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I guess I'm the only one that thinks a 20 year old is doing pretty well in the Southern League, not to mention what I'm sure is a bit of an adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 13, 2009 -> 01:11 AM) I guess I'm the only one that thinks a 20 year old is doing pretty well in the Southern League, not to mention what I'm sure is a bit of an adjustment. No I'm with you completely. He is 20 years old, in a foreign country that speaks another language, away from everything he is a familiar with and playing in AA. He is hitting .260 and has almost 50 RBI at the break. Yeah, I'd love to see his power numbers better but come on. How can this be construed as upsetting? Most 20 year olds are playing in college, rookie or low-A ball at this point in their careers. Viciedo was selected as an all-star in AA. I'm very content with how he has done this year. Obviously I expect an improvement next year but if he needs all year in the minors again that's fine. If he comes up in 2011 we still get him for 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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