Halladay Superthread

[103 mph screwball]

Does anyone else get the irritating feeling that Floyd would either be involved in this deal or (more likely) shipped elsewhere to save a little dough back?

 

Actually i suppose to save $ in the current year maybe Contreras would be out for prospects? In a playoff series Jose would be a reliever, and has shown disdain for bullpen work in the past

I was thinking Dotel. Perhaps the Pena move makes moving Dotel possible to save some cash to take on a different salary.

[SoxFan562004]

FWIW, ESPN and MLBN seem to like the Phillies as a good fit. Even though JP said he would listen to all offers, most think he would be hesitant to move him to NYY or Bos. MLBN said that the Giants have interest

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Having let it sink in, either the Angels or Jays will have Doc on their squad through the end of the year. Why f*** with what we've got? Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Contreras, Richard/Gordito/Poreda. This is solid enough to not warrant giving anything up for an old Doctor. I'm sort of liking the team as it is, but if anything, look for a bat. Actually, trade for Doc so he could heal that gimp Quentin.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[caulfield12]

If Contreras is on a roll like he was in 05/06 from now through August, you can be pretty sure that Floyd or Danks would be the odd man out...of course, the odds of him sustaining this level of pitching are about 10-15%, but stranger things have happened.

 

No way do I dump Contreras when he's been one of the top 20 pitchers in MLB, is in better shape than in 05/06 and his arm/shoulder are rested and he's 100% confident.

 

I would gladly trade Dotel...the difference between those two over half a season is only about $2 million.

 

You don't trade a starter like Jose the way he's pitching now unless you get another nice building block for the future (starting pitcher in AA/AAA that can have an impact for six years), a leadoff hitter like Hudson/Roberts, etc. who can play 2B or possibly a better 4th OF than Anderson/Wise.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

It appears the Phillies have become the favorites to land Halladay.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Am...?urn=mlb,175626

 

Amaro should get GM of the decade if he can get Halladay without having to give up Drabek, Knapp or Brown.

[chisoxfan09]

I still strongly now see us not dealing for Doc based on the following:

 

1. The pool of our major league ready or near MLB ready prospects most rumored to be available and possibly interest the Jays just shrank by 1 (Allen trade).

2. Ricciardi apparently insisting on o extension negotiation window which kills our approach (Some say we are also win now, bit I don't see that) to have the solid core until 2012 and maybe beyond.

 

It is gonna get more interesting next week and then the week after.

[beck72]

If Halladay was signed for a few years ala Peavy, I could see the Sox trading for him. But that's not the case. If the Sox are seeking to add an elite SP, that deal is likely coming in the offseason, not this year. With so many teams in dire need of SP, one of those will overpay for Halladay. There's no guarantee that the team that trades for Roy will be able to sign him after 2010. Roy should be able to get a CC Sabathia type deal. I'm not sure of the numbers offhand. But IMO, CC's deal should a benchmark for what Halladay will get.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

I've joined the "we don't need Halladay" crowd. Mike was right that we pretty much picked up an ace with the way Jose is pitching now.

[witesoxfan]

Do we know for sure that the Jays don't HAVE to move Halladay for budgetary purposes as well? They're averaging 22,800 per game (25th in the majors) in a city that doesn't really care about baseball and are paying B.J. Ryan $12 million this year to suck.

 

They released Ryan today (yesterday, whatevs).

 

Ricciardi has also publicly come out and said that he will not deal Halladay unless he is blown away (not in those words, but that's what he was saying). That tells me that they aren't struggling for cash at the current moment, or that Halladay is a huge attraction and if they dealt him, they'd probably lose 2,000 or more fans a game. He's only signed through next year anyways, so he's not a huge financial burden upon the franchise like Peavy is in San Diego. If anything, they'd be looking to unload a couple others for much, much cheaper. Hell, they'd probably give Vernon Wells away for practically free right now.

 

 

Anyways, giving up Alexei or Floyd or Danks would be brutal for the MLB team. KW won't hurt the MLB team's chances by acquiring someone; I have never seen him make a move like that in his career. If KW is to acquire Halladay, it would be none of those 3 going, and no one major. If they are going by the one MLB ready pitching prospect, one (near) MLB ready offensive prospect, and one other good prospect, you'd be looking at a package similar to something ike Poreda, Flowers/Jordan Danks, and Hudson. I personally don't think that's enough for a guy like Halladay, and I think you would have to include Richard in that too, but Toronto has quite a few lefties too. Romero should be an All-Star, Rzepczynski pitched well in his debut and is a solid prospect, and I imagine Cecil is a solid prospect as well (though I haven't read up on him, I figure he's probably in the Richard/Poreda category of some type, be it a semi-polished pitcher who will be a #3-4 in his career, or a boom or bust type of guy who is either a #2 or better, a dynamite reliever, or AAA fodder. Perhaps he's better, I really don't know).

 

I believe the White Sox have enough prospects to make such a move. Whether it is wise for the short and long term is something Williams and company will decide. I personally do not believe they will make a move for Halladay unless he is still a Blue Jay come around July 28 (give or take) AND Danks, Floyd, Buehrle, or Contreras take a monstrous s*** or get hurt. Those 4 are pitching fantastically now and, unless they don't keep it up, I personally don't understand the need to trade off the immediate future, whoever it may be, for a year and a half rent-a-pitcher. I imagine KW feels the same way.

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I still strongly now see us not dealing for Doc based on the following:

 

1. The pool of our major league ready or near MLB ready prospects most rumored to be available and possibly interest the Jays just shrank by 1 (Allen trade).

2. Ricciardi apparently insisting on o extension negotiation window which kills our approach (Some say we are also win now, bit I don't see that) to have the solid core until 2012 and maybe beyond.

 

It is gonna get more interesting next week and then the week after.

 

We don't have the pieces anyway. With Beckham off limits, we simply can't match what some of these other teams appear to be willing to give up. The Phillies are rumored to be dangling Michael Taylor, a 23-year old, 5-tool stud, who is obliterating the Eastern League, and Carlos Carrasco, one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, along with Lou Marson, a quality catching prospect that's already made it to the bigs. There's a couple other guys that would be going to Toronto that haven't been named yet. It's going to be hard for any team to top that (if this rumor is legitimate, of course). And the rest of the NL should be scared s***less right about now. A rotation headed by Halladay/Hamels and that offense? Have fun with that.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Jordan4life

[WCSox]

They released Ryan today (yesterday, whatevs).

 

Ricciardi has also publicly come out and said that he will not deal Halladay unless he is blown away (not in those words, but that's what he was saying). That tells me that they aren't struggling for cash at the current moment, or that Halladay is a huge attraction and if they dealt him, they'd probably lose 2,000 or more fans a game. He's only signed through next year anyways, so he's not a huge financial burden upon the franchise like Peavy is in San Diego. If anything, they'd be looking to unload a couple others for much, much cheaper. Hell, they'd probably give Vernon Wells away for practically free right now.

 

If Ricciardi publicly stated that he absolutely had to trade Halladay due to budgetary reasons, Halladay's trade value would fall through the floor. So of course he's going to project the image that he doesn't *need* to trade anybody. But the economic reality may be the opposite. He very well may be getting pressure to unload guys like Halladay and Rolen (they're stuck with Wells, as nobody is going to pick up his contract).

 

[greg775]

The bottom line is if we give up 3-4 of our finest prospects and/or a current young stud like Alexei and Beckham I bet we could get him.

Is Halladay worth that? You make the call.

I personally think it's not worth the gamble acquiring pitchers his age for all our best prospects.

Cliff Lee was virtually unhittable last year; one year later?

 

[lord chas]

cardinals in mix?

[Rowand44]

Cliff Lee was virtually unhittable last year; one year later?

Still pretty damn good. And I have no idea what Cliff Lee has to do with Roy Halladay.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Reading that Goldstein interview makes me think we shouldn't go after just Halladay. Danks + Flowers + Poreda + more (probably Hudson and then a young pitcher or a top reliever) is not a price we should be paying - not because Halladay isn't worth it, but because it's far too risky.

 

We need to build up depth in our farm. Should we keep all our top prospects through the 2010 draft, and let the Carter/Leesman/Upchurch/Shirek/Griffith/Infante/Rodriguez group advance a level, then after the 2010 draft we'll start having some pretty good prospects at every level. At that point, I think we can start trading some guys. We need to have a system where the guys we're trading can be at least somewhat replaced by the guys behind them, and right now, especially in terms of position players, we don't have much below AA. If we deplete the AA level then we're pretty screwed because we'll be counting on these guys in 2010/2011 and going forward.

 

I'd look hard at Alex Rios though if taking him on gets us Halladay at a much better price. I can't believe Rios has been as bad as he's been this year. He has far too much talent and is far too young to be hitting like he is. Maybe the Sox can see something there? Because if Rios returns to form he's a productive CF on a reasonable or bargain contract that takes him right through his prime. Even though Rios had a down year last year, he still put up almost an .800 OPS (.798), and for us that would be in CF. The year before that he was a stud, (.852 OPS) and has the potential to be a .900+ guy. Taking on Rios could turn into another JD type of deal where we get a way undervalued player coming off a bad season, although the year JD was coming off with Oakland was his first full healthy season post-injury.

 

If the Sox feel Rios can get it back together, then I offer Flowers + Poreda + 3 young arms for Halladay and Rios. Stick Rios in CF right now and - because he can play all 3 OF positions - use him to rotate around so that Pods can play regularly either in CF or LF. Then Dye can DH when Thome sits vs. lefties, Rios to RF, Pods in CF, CQ in LF. So Rios would basically replace BA and Fields this year. Then deal Fields and bring in another corner IF backup for days when Paulie needs a rest.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

cardinals in mix?

Which guy would Soxtalk rather have, Tyler Flowers or Brett Wallace? That's a tough one IMO, especially if Flowers can become a solid C. If Flowers can be a decent C I'd have to go with him.

 

I bet the media doesn't even mention Flowers though but talks a ton about Wallace.

[beck72]

Taking on Rios could turn into another JD type of deal where we get a way undervalued player coming off a bad season, although the year JD was coming off with Oakland was his first full healthy season post-injury.

IMO, the sox could be more likely to trade for Rios, or Vernon Wells independent of Halladay. Yet even that would be remote.

[bighurt574]

If Toronto is going to require a package involving Beckham, Danks, Alexei, etc., the Sox should back off. Halladay for $15 million a year for a year and a half would be nice, but I'd rather keep our young, proven talent and just spend that $22 million in free agency.

[Pumpkin Escobar]

If Toronto is going to require a package involving Beckham, Danks, Alexei, etc., the Sox should back off. Halladay for $15 million a year for a year and a half would be nice, but I'd rather keep our young, proven talent and just spend that $22 million in free agency.

 

This Halladay situation is not worth it if that is the price.

 

Olneys word of one mlb ready prospect and two good prospects or something along those lines. If that is the case - I am all for it.

 

However, if we are giving up prospects and just taking on 22 million in salary. I'd much rather just go out and sign Ben Sheets if he can pitch this year and give him 12 mil a year. Throw a 30 start minimum on the contract meaning he has time next season to miss 2 months if need be but if he is healthy for this stretch run this season - I think he and those prospects would be worth it. Especially considering how well Contreras is throwing. We essentially acquired "Aces" when Floyd and Contreras came back dominating from their struggles.

 

How long it lasts is another story. But if Sheets is up for a 2 month contract at 5 million or a two year 20 mil...I'd pay it.

[GreatScott82]

This Halladay situation is not worth it if that is the price.

 

Olneys word of one mlb ready prospect and two good prospects or something along those lines. If that is the case - I am all for it.

However, if we are giving up prospects and just taking on 22 million in salary. I'd much rather just go out and sign Ben Sheets if he can pitch this year and give him 12 mil a year. Throw a 30 start minimum on the contract meaning he has time next season to miss 2 months if need be but if he is healthy for this stretch run this season - I think he and those prospects would be worth it. Especially considering how well Contreras is throwing. We essentially acquired "Aces" when Floyd and Contreras came back dominating from their struggles.

 

How long it lasts is another story. But if Sheets is up for a 2 month contract at 5 million or a two year 20 mil...I'd pay it.

 

Alexie, Poreda and Flowers and a couple of single a prospects for Halladay and Rolen and I say the Blue Jays pull the trigger.

[Chicago White Sox]

IMO, the sox could be more likely to trade for Rios, or Vernon Wells independent of Halladay. Yet even that would be remote.

 

There is no chance the Sox trade for Vernon Wells. He might have the worst contract in MLB right now.

 

10:$21M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M

 

This contract would cripple many small-market franchises. In fact, not one team in baseball would take that contract off their hands without significant money coming back. In this economical environment, he’d probably get somewhere between $7 and $10 million a season for 2 to 3 years. The Blue Jays would have to give the acquiring team at least $30 million (and probably more) for even the Yankees to take him. Even then, the Blue Jays would get nothing in return unless they ate a much higher portion of the contract.

 

As for Rios, he signed his contract extension right after his big offensive season. $12 million a year isn’t terrible, but definitely not worth it in this market. IMO, the Sox won’t want to trade any talent for him, when they could possibly sign Matt Holliday as free agent for the same financial commitment.

[Chicago White Sox]

Alexie, Poreda and Flowers and a couple of single a prospects for Halladay and Rolen and I say the Blue Jays pull the trigger.

 

Yeah, I'm sure they'd pull the trigger. Please tell me you don't want to trade Alexie in such a package?? That would be a horrible trade.

[GreatScott82]

Yeah, I'm sure they'd pull the trigger. Please tell me you don't want to trade Alexie in such a package?? That would be a horrible trade.

Alexie is a great streaky player and would definitley be missed if gets traded ever. But in order to get something of great value, you have to give something of great value. Kind of like the Freddy Garcia deal. We gave up Olivo, he was a guy we were all in love with ( a young and up and coming star), but we recieved Garcia- he signed an extension and we won a title.

 

If we could get Halladay and sign him to an extension, i'd say we won that deal. Now if you also bring in Rolen (a guy who is currently .330 and is rocking a 25 game hit streak) were set to contend this year and next. You lose Flowers, a guy we got for Vazquez and you also lose Poreda (this guy is the real deal and the Jays will love him).

 

But IMO this would be a great deal for both teams. The Sox still have decent depth in the farm and have a 1.5 year oppurtunity (at least) to win a title with Doc Halladay in thier rotation.

 

 

[WCSox]

I'd trade Alexei for 3+ years of Peavy, but I don't see the point in giving him up for 1.5 years of Halladay. IMO, Alexei's value is just under Beckham's.

 

[GreatScott82]

I'd trade Alexei for 3+ years of Peavy, but I don't see the point in giving him up for 1.5 years of Halladay. IMO, Alexei's value is just under Beckham's.

The deal imediately becomes worth it if Halladay signs an entension right away.

Edited July 9, 2009 by GreatScott82