Halladay Superthread

[chisoxfan09]

Basically say that KW is "under the radar." But they mentioned a package of Richard, Poreda, Flowers and Viciedo, but then go on to say that won't get it done and that the Sox don't have what the Jays would want considering Slayer is untouchable. So, really...they are saying nothing.

 

Thanx CanofCorn, I pretty much feel it is going to really take some team getting fleeced for Ricciardi to pull the trigger. On some Jays boards I have seen fans say get the haul they want and then once Halladay becomes a FA sign him back to Toronto. Wild huh??

[CanOfCorn]

Thanx CanofCorn, I pretty much feel it is going to really take some team getting fleeced for Ricciardi to pull the trigger. On some Jays boards I have seen fans say get the haul they want and then once Halladay becomes a FA sign him back to Toronto. Wild huh??

 

I would bet my left nut that Halladay will only go back to Toronto as an opposing pitcher.

 

And you are very welcome.

Edited July 17, 2009 by CanOfCorn

[T R U]

Some great ESPN nuggets..

 

A package centered around Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Dayan Viciedo and Tyler Flowers probably isn't going to get it done.

 

"Several White Sox prospects have upgraded their stock considerably this year. Outfielder Jordan Danks has reached Double-A in his first full season while impressing scouts on both sides of the ball, while fellow 2008 draftees Dan Hudson (already in Double-A) and Dexter Carter (the minor league leader in strikeouts) have put up big numbers while drawing equally impressive praise. Viciedo would have to be a player to be named later, because he signed last December, but could Flowers, Poreda, Viciedo, Danks and one of the young arms get it done? The industry buzz is leaning towards no."

 

I don't think there is any way KW would ever give up that much for anyone..

Edited July 17, 2009 by T R U

[southsider2k5]

Some great ESPN nuggets..

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there is any way KW would ever give up that much for anyone..

 

This place would burn to the ground if Kenny ever gave that up for Halladay.

[SoxFan562004]

I love Halladay, but giving up that much is shooting yourself in the foot

[GreatScott82]

Thanx CanofCorn, I pretty much feel it is going to really take some team getting fleeced for Ricciardi to pull the trigger. On some Jays boards I have seen fans say get the haul they want and then once Halladay becomes a FA sign him back to Toronto. Wild huh??

 

That wont happen. Which ever team trades for Halladay is likely going to ink him to an extension shortly after. Its kind of interesting how ESPN and Foxsports are stating the White Sox being in on the Halladay sweepstakes. . I wonder if they have someone on the inside? And if Poreda, Richard, Flowers and Viciedo wont be 'enough' to aqcuire Halladay, i want nothing to with the guy.

[caulfield12]

Flowers, Poreda, Viciedo, Danks and one of the young arms get it done

 

That's suicide, Kevorkian style for KW.

 

Phegley is far from a sure thing at this point, and Flowers is probably the most likely of all of our minor league hitters to be an impact bat SOMEWHERE in the line-up in 2010/2011.

 

A Jordan Danks trade is questionable because of the presence of his brother, although KW would trade his own mom and son if it got him a Reyes/H. Ramirez type. In a heartbeat.

 

Viciedo's value is down a little bit (or maybe a lot, depending on perspective...although scouts still seem to be happy to project his future positively rather than being discouraged by the results of just 3 1/2 months in America).

 

Poreda or Richard, fine, but ALSO including Hudson and/or Carter??? No way.

 

Seems like a recipe for disaster, like Phillips, Sizemore and Lee for Bartolo Colon.

 

Of course, during KW's tenure, he has never traded away ONE player who had the individual impact later on of those three players (Brandon with the Reds after the Indians grew too impatient)...so it's not likely to be quite the disaster, and our farm system recently has been nothing like Montreal's, but you never do that trade in a million years. (Morse/Reed/Olivo and Wells/Fogg/Lowe were the closest but not nearly reaching the Nathan/Bonser/Liriano debacle).

 

Dombrowski would be pretty crazy to trade 5.25 years of Porcello for 1.25 years of Halladay, as well. In this economy, a cheap 2 starter (they've already paid most of his money due, right?) is gold, just like Alexei Ramirez with his contract.

Edited July 17, 2009 by caulfield12

[SoxFan562004]

[/b]

 

That wont happen. Which ever team trades for Halladay is likely going to ink him to an extension shortly after. Its kind of interesting how ESPN and Foxsports are stating the White Sox being in on the Halladay sweepstakes. . I wonder if they have someone on the inside? And if Poreda, Richard, Flowers and Viciedo wont be 'enough' to aqcuire Halladay, i want nothing to with the guy.

It could be leaks within the Blue Jays if they want to make it seem like many teams are involved, and with agressive as KW is, I have no doubt he's at least picked up the phone

[Chisoxfn]

Some great ESPN nuggets..

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there is any way KW would ever give up that much for anyone..

I certainly hope not.

[Chisoxfn]

Angels evidently are rumored to be offering Jared Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and prospects. Or the Jays are asking for that. Not quite certain which way it goes, but heard it on the radio while heading back from lunch.

[Balta1701]

Angels evidently are rumored to be offering Jared Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and prospects. Or the Jays are asking for that. Not quite certain which way it goes, but heard it on the radio while heading back from lunch.

What would the Jays do with both Kendrick and Lind?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Angels evidently are rumored to be offering Jared Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and prospects. Or the Jays are asking for that. Not quite certain which way it goes, but heard it on the radio while heading back from lunch.

 

Talk about absolutely defeating the purpose of trading for Halladay in the first place.

[RockRaines]

I dont think KW is going to mortgage the farm they have built for this org just for a year and a half of Halladay. That is the Jays office trying to drive the price up since the only teams that are offering anything of interest have been in the AL east.

[southsider2k5]

Angels evidently are rumored to be offering Jared Weaver, Howie Kendrick, and prospects. Or the Jays are asking for that. Not quite certain which way it goes, but heard it on the radio while heading back from lunch.

 

If that were the case, Halladay would be on the next plane to LAX. That has to be what Toronto is asking for.

[RockRaines]

If that were the case, Halladay would be on the next plane to LAX. That has to be what Toronto is asking for.

The Jays have all sorts of people leaking these "rumors" to the media. They are hoping someone gets desperate and offers more. Im not sure I would trade Weaver straight up for Halladay. He's shown consistent improvement in BAA and WHIP in the last 3 seasons and he's a better long term bet IMO. Especially considering Halladay is a short term fix.

[southsider2k5]

The Jays have all sorts of people leaking these "rumors" to the media. They are hoping someone gets desperate and offers more. Im not sure I would trade Weaver straight up for Halladay. He's shown consistent improvement in BAA and WHIP in the last 3 seasons and he's a better long term bet IMO. Especially considering Halladay is a short term fix.

 

With salary considerations factored in, there is zero chance I would trade Weaver for Halladay straight up, let alone with other players.

[GreatScott82]

I dont think KW is going to mortgage the farm they have built for this org just for a year and a half of Halladay. That is the Jays office trying to drive the price up since the only teams that are offering anything of interest have been in the AL east.

I wouldn't offer Poreda, Richard, Flowers and Viciedo for Halladay. But i would do that deal for Haren. And if I was Arizona's GM it would be something to seriously consider. . In fact that is something i could see KW doing. With all of this attention on the Halladay sweepstakes, I could see him going under the radar and swiping a guy like Haren.

[SoxFan562004]

It seems to me, as others have pointed out, that the Jays are chumming the waters a lot. I think they're calling with high demands and getting very little back in constructive offers.

 

I still expect him to get moved though, I think they may relent on the negotiation window, that may help a team make the move.

 

I feel that if they don't move him before the deadline and try to trade him in the deadline they lose on two fronts, first, you lose a stretch run out of him if you trade for him in the offseason instead of now and if Peavy bounces back from his injury where teams feel comfortable enough to trade for him durring the offseason, there's another quality starter on the market

[ThunderBolt]

What would the Jays do with both Kendrick and Lind?

I assume you mean Aaron Hill? Not much of a logjam between 2b and DH.

[Balta1701]

I assume you mean Aaron Hill? Not much of a logjam between 2b and DH.

Yeah yeah. Oops. Either way, you don't stick a good hitting 2b at DH. A good hitting 2b is a bad hitting DH for most teams.

[BearSox]

What would the Jays do with both Kendrick and Lind?

 

Kendrick can play 1B, as well as maybe even 3B or LF.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wouldn't offer Poreda, Richard, Flowers and Viciedo for Halladay. But i would do that deal for Haren. And if I was Arizona's GM it would be something to seriously consider. . In fact that is something i could see KW doing. With all of this attention on the Halladay sweepstakes, I could see him going under the radar and swiping a guy like Haren.

Throw in Hudson and another SP prospect or a guy like Nathan Jones and maybe we could get Haren. I wouldn't pay that price though. I think that unless we can get an ace for well below his normal trade value we're best off waiting for the offseason to see what teams are looking to dump what players. Assuming he checks out medically, I'd much rather acquire Webb for half that cost or less.

[caulfield12]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ng3&three=1

 

Haren has a 3.73 ERA away from home (around 3.30 in the desert) and has given up more hits than IP on the road over the 2006-2008 seasons.

 

That's a little worrisome, just like we talked about with Peavy. That would translate to a 4.00-4.25 ERA in the American League.

 

So I don't think Haren or Halladay are worth that kind of package...Halladay because we wouldn't be able to keep him for more than 1.25 years and his age, Haren because he's not really a proven ace in the AL. A Brandon Webb or going after Peavy coming off an injury are more KW's style, with the exception of the Freddy Garcia trade, when he was still pretty close to his prime but still declining a bit because of the abuse to his arm/shoulder.

[Kalapse]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ng3&three=1

 

Haren has a 3.73 ERA away from home (around 3.30 in the desert) and has given up more hits than IP on the road over the 2006-2008 seasons.

 

That's a little worrisome, just like we talked about with Peavy. That would translate to a 4.00-4.25 ERA in the American League.

 

So I don't think Haren or Halladay are worth that kind of package...Halladay because we wouldn't be able to keep him for more than 1.25 years and his age, Haren because he's not really a proven ace in the AL. A Brandon Webb or going after Peavy coming off an injury are more KW's style, with the exception of the Freddy Garcia trade, when he was still pretty close to his prime but still declining a bit because of the abuse to his arm/shoulder.

Dan Haren put up a 3.07 ERA pitching for the A's in 2007, his ERA away from Oakland: 3.34. Oh and Arizona's home ballpark has played as a hitter's park the past 2 seasons. It's hardly surprising that a starting pitcher would be more comfortable pitching in his home ballpark. Hell the last time Johan Santana won a Cy Young his road ERA was higher than Haren's '07 number.

[beck72]

Throw in Hudson and another SP prospect or a guy like Nathan Jones and maybe we could get Haren. I wouldn't pay that price though. I think that unless we can get an ace for well below his normal trade value we're best off waiting for the offseason to see what teams are looking to dump what players. Assuming he checks out medically, I'd much rather acquire Webb for half that cost or less.

I agree on that wholeheartedly. Webb would likely be a target in the offseason. Also, I'd have to think another name or two could be available in the offseason that's not on the radar now. Pitchers are overpriced in terms of talent it would take to acquire them right now.